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Bike fit recommends Parlee ALtum R vs Trek Domane 6

shredical1shredical1 Posts: 23
edited February 2017 in Road buying advice
Based on stack and reach from a recent bike fit (was 230lbs at the time), a neutral bike fit, i've been recommended a Trek Domane frame.

Specifically a stack of 591mm and reach of 377mm

My original idea was to get this for the road, a DUra Ace CAAD12 to complement my cross bike, a CAADX.

However, was recommened looking at an endurance geometry bike if I was looking for an all rounder road bike and hence the Trek.

Also came across a Parlee Altum as well as a Focus Paralane being close to the recommended stack and reach numbers for out of the box, as designed per manufacturer handling characteristics. requiring little to no modification besides a new saddle and choice of pedals.

Locally, I came across a 2016 Domane 6 for $2700and a Parlee Altum R with standard Utegra build for $3100.

Any opinions on either of these and which you would lean towards and why?

Lastly, being a heavier guy (220lbs), should I wait and get the disc versions?

And I plan on continuing to lose weight, would that change my stack and reach numbers?

Thanks for your time and look forward to your inputs.
Shredical1

Posts

  • BobbinogsBobbinogs Posts: 4,928
    Worth bearing in mind that both stack and reach can be effectively and easily be changed by flipping the stem, changing the stem, adding spacers, etc. OK, so the headtube is going to stay in the same place but the contact point for the hands is going to change which can dramatically change your position. Might be worth taking the stem length/angle from the fit and then playing with this kind of tool in case you find a great bike which is slightly different from your exact S/R figures:

    http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/stem.php

    This is why most bike fits will give you a range of suitable bikes...and then rely on a post-purchase fit to get the recommended position sorted by tweaking the combo of bar and saddle position, etc.
  • Thanks for the response. Agreed, and I said the same to the fitter but he said he prefers to have people come to him to figure out a bike that would work for them out of the box, if they are not building one themselves from a frame rather than trying to fit a bike to someone compromising the manufacturer's intended handling characteristics of the bike. Seems reasonable and a valid argument to me but am not technically inclined when it comes to geometry and fit so would defer to the experts.

    The idea is to get a road bike for 25-30 milers to century rides (working up to this!).

    He just said try to stick close to the stack and reach numbers unless there is a specific bike that I am looking at.
  • BobbinogsBobbinogs Posts: 4,928
    shredical1 wrote:
    ...he said he prefers to have people come to him to figure out a bike that would work for them out of the box, if they are not building one themselves from a frame rather than trying to fit a bike to someone compromising the manufacturer's intended handling characteristics of the bike. Seems reasonable and a valid argument to me....

    Nah. He is talking garbage to a greater degree IMHO. Making a minor adaption of a bike to get it to be comfortable does not compromise the manufacturer's intended handling characteristics...at least not to a discernible degree. Even if it did, just a look around at the start of a club ride will show that many are happy to make the bike they want fit them rather than get a bike based on what fits them out of the box. As stated, look for something that is close, it will open your options right up. If you buy a bike that excites you and yet you still find it comfortable then riding that century is going to be a breeze. If that bike is one of the two stated then crack on but if not...

    BTW, might be worth adding a Synapse on your list if you are looking for something to complement a CAADX? The disc version gets a lot of positive comments from riders I know.
  • paulmonpaulmon Posts: 315
    Interesting. I have recently been on a similar journey and I was initially recommended a Domane as I have a long inseam (85cm) but I'm only 172cm tall. I also looked at the Parlee. If you have your fit numbers then that might help, specifically inseam, height and the saddle height.

    I ended up buying a Trek Domane SL8(56) which I'll be using as a winter bike. When I put my numbers onto the Parlee (Medium) the saddle to bar drop was to big and on the M/L I the reach was too much. I've had the Trek a few weeks now and its a very good bike but its not very racy. I've also ordered a Bianchi Infinito CV in a 55 which I had on demo for a few rides and its a much better bike than the Trek. Its a lot sharper and more racy whilst still offering the same kind of relaxed geometry that the Trek does and this will be my summer bike.

    If you can get demo rides then I'd strongly recommend you do that so you can put your bike fit numbers onto the bike and ride it a few times. The seat height is the one metric that is set in tablets of stone. Once you have this set then if after riding you find you have to put the stem to the top of the steerer and then flip it you know the bike isn't for you.
  • Bobbinogs wrote:
    Nah. He is talking garbage to a greater degree IMHO. Making a minor adaption of a bike to get it to be comfortable does not compromise the manufacturer's intended handling characteristics...at least not to a discernible degree. Even if it did, just a look around at the start of a club ride will show that many are happy to make the bike they want fit them rather than get a bike based on what fits them out of the box. As stated, look for something that is close, it will open your options right up. If you buy a bike that excites you and yet you still find it comfortable then riding that century is going to be a breeze. If that bike is one of the two stated then crack on but if not...

    BTW, might be worth adding a Synapse on your list if you are looking for something to complement a CAADX? The disc version gets a lot of positive comments from riders I know.

    Yeah, I kinda like the idea of getting the bike I want and making it fit to me myself :mrgreen:

    THe Parlee is tempting but I wish it was the disc version that was available locally. Can't afford msrp on it.

    yeah, I've got my eye on a BMC RM02 105 disc (rides awesome despite being heavy) and like you mentioned strongly considering the synapse carbon disc (need to test ride it) as well and I still want a CAAD12 (loved this bike) to try out road racing this year while I wait for cross season to start up in September.

    here's the fit numbers.

    HdPjnAR.jpg
  • paulmonpaulmon Posts: 315
    How tall are you and what's your inseam measurement. The CAad10 is an aggressive geometry so if the bike fit is suggesting a Domane then a CAAD10 isn't going to work without having a massive saddle to bar drop. I had a CAad 10 in a 52 which I went up and down the Alps on but I had the saddle set far too low. My seat post should have been exposed by around 21cm instead of what it is in the linked image.

    https://flic.kr/p/m8QAXn

    The easiest thing to do is go to a shop and look for yourself. Take a tape measure set the saddle to you fit setting and then take a view. If you think you can cope with a big saddle to bar drop then go for it but ultimately you'll end up dropping the saddle and then your knees will suffer.
  • paulmon wrote:
    How tall are you and what's your inseam measurement. The CAad10 is an aggressive geometry so if the bike fit is suggesting a Domane then a CAAD10 isn't going to work without having a massive saddle to bar drop. I had a CAad 10 in a 52 which I went up and down the Alps on but I had the saddle set far too low. My seat post should have been exposed by around 21cm instead of what it is in the linked image.

    https://flic.kr/p/m8QAXn

    The easiest thing to do is go to a shop and look for yourself. Take a tape measure set the saddle to you fit setting and then take a view. If you think you can cope with a big saddle to bar drop then go for it but ultimately you'll end up dropping the saddle and then your knees will suffer.


    Hi, Am about 177cm tall with an in-seam of about 30 inches or 76.2cm


    Test rode the Parlee, Trek Domane SLR6 and the CAAD12 DA.

    The CAAD12 DA felt the most responsive of all 3. Very snappy, loves to just go!

    Definitely more aggressive riding position and the LBS didn't take too much care with setting it up for me and just eye balled the saddle height and added a few spacers to the steam to raise the stack. Would love to see how it would feel over a 30-50 mile ride.

    The Parlee felt nearly as responsive as the CAAD12 but definitely a bit more relaxed and according to geometry, nearly perfect with regards to fit. Loved this bike as well.

    The Trek DOmane however was a bit of a disappointment. It seems to just lumber along and not as quick to respond even with the RXL wheels it was sporting. Perhaps it is due to the endurance geometry and the longer chain stays + wheelbase. Once it got going however, the bike felt good and fit was very comfortable.

    In order of preference, I'd give it to Parlee over the CAAD12 and then the Domane.

    Parlee:
    Pros
    Fast, nimble
    Relaxed geometry
    Custom carbon frame
    Exclusivity
    option to trade mechanical ultegra in for an upgrade to di2 with LBS is possible.
    LBS also offered another 150$ off for a 3000$ out the door price, albeit its a 2015 new old stock.

    Cons:
    Not a great fan of the humpback top tube
    The color scheme is ok

    CAAD12
    Pros
    Love the snappy, lets go scream mode that's available on demand.
    DA shifters and hollowgram si crank
    ultegra hydro disc brakes (am a big guy, 220lbs)
    neon yellow color scheme is rad
    Seems to ride quite nicely over bumps even

    cons
    spendy for an Aluminum frame even with the hefty discount

    Trek Domane SLR 6
    Pros
    Great ride
    High grade frame
    Perfect endurance fit, no modification needed.
    Nice color scheme
    Lightweight
    Discount! (60% off)


    Cons:
    Feels lethargic off the gate so to speak
    weird downtube design for a road that's huge!


    Plan to test out a TCR Advanced Pro 1 Disc and a Defy Advanced Pro 0 Disc this week.
  • Parlee:
    Pros
    Fast, nimble
    Relaxed geometry
    Custom carbon frame
    Exclusivity
    option to trade mechanical ultegra in for an upgrade to di2 with LBS is possible.
    LBS also offered another 150$ off for a 3000$ out the door price, albeit its a 2015 new old stock.

    I'm sure it's not a "custom", carbon frame?
  • JesseDJesseD Posts: 1,961
    Bobbings is right, the fitter is talking poppycock.

    Any decent bike shop will change bars/stem etc on a brand new bike to make it fit you properly so all you need is too get a bike that’s in the ball park geometry wise.

    I had a bike fit 2 years ago and it did a lot for me and got me in a really comfortable position on my Felt Z75, over the course of last year as I have become fitter and lost weight the only thing I have changed is the height of the bars as I can now get into a lower position and remain comfortable (not as much belly in the way).

    I bought a new bike just before Christmas and used the stack/reach of my existing bike along with my bike fit to determine what to get, I probably looked at the geometry of over 90 bikes in total and managed to whittle it down to around 20 that I would have been able to get a great position on, could afford and likes the look of.

    What was important to me apart from price and looks was to not have a tower of spacers under the stem (looks terrible) and not to go too short on the stem length under 110mm, however that can always be sorted with different reach bars.

    In the end I got a Kuota Kougar, changed the bars/stem straight out of the box and put 15mm of spacers under the stem so I have a little more scope to get lower if I can later this year. My position on both bikes is not almost exactly the same bar a couple of mm here or there, nothing I can notice in reality.

    My advice would be to ride your current bike in the new position to make sure you are 100% comfortable with it, then after a couple of months if you are happy then buy a new machine, spend the time looking at lots of bikes and see what is going to fit you, when you are looking at spending lots of money you don’t want to make a snap decision and possibly regret it later.
    Obsessed is a word used by the lazy to describe the dedicated!
  • JesseDJesseD Posts: 1,961
    Parlee:
    Pros
    Fast, nimble
    Relaxed geometry
    Custom carbon frame
    Exclusivity
    option to trade mechanical ultegra in for an upgrade to di2 with LBS is possible.
    LBS also offered another 150$ off for a 3000$ out the door price, albeit its a 2015 new old stock.

    I'm sure it's not a "custom", carbon frame?

    They can be as Parlee do offer a semi custom option where you can specify slightly different geometries to the off the peg models, but if you do that you may as well go full custom elsewhere and get something really bespoke.
    Obsessed is a word used by the lazy to describe the dedicated!
  • JesseD wrote:
    Parlee:
    Pros
    Fast, nimble
    Relaxed geometry
    Custom carbon frame
    Exclusivity
    option to trade mechanical ultegra in for an upgrade to di2 with LBS is possible.
    LBS also offered another 150$ off for a 3000$ out the door price, albeit its a 2015 new old stock.

    I'm sure it's not a "custom", carbon frame?

    They can be as Parlee do offer a semi custom option where you can specify slightly different geometries to the off the peg models, but if you do that you may as well go full custom elsewhere and get something really bespoke.

    Ah, I see- didn't realise they did that now. I'm personally not a fan of that headset lump.

    I've got the Z5, which is basically the model that preceded the Altum (only real difference is the Z5 has an Enve fork, and no headset "hump"). It's a fantastic frame/ bike, although I am toying with the idea of selling it as I'm trying to rationalize my road bikes. "N minus 1", if you like :shock:
  • JesseDJesseD Posts: 1,961
    I've got the Z5, which is basically the model that preceded the Altum (only real difference is the Z5 has an Enve fork, and no headset "hump"). It's a fantastic frame/ bike, although I am toying with the idea of selling it as I'm trying to rationalize my road bikes. "N minus 1", if you like :shock:

    see a doctor quick, there is obviously something wrong with you!
    Obsessed is a word used by the lazy to describe the dedicated!
  • Eddy Merckx Milano 72 disk.

    stack 597
    reach 375
    seat tube angle 74
    (2017 numbers. 2016 may be cheaper, but you'd have to check the archive for any geo changes).

    Its a wsd but you could swap out the saddle.
  • THanks for all the responses.

    Been busy trying out other bikes and have gotten 200 miles under the current CAADX bike post bike fit with all the adjustments. Feeling great so far. Biggest issue has been trying to remind mysel fto rotate my hips so am not putting pressure on my sit bones and keeping my core engaged to relieve my hands and shoulders.
    Have also lost 12 pounds since I started beginning of Feb which is great motivation to keep on pushing.

    Got accepted into a cycling team and they have offered a tie up with GIant at a discounted price for the team members. THe Defy is the closest to stacka nd reach.

    Tried out the following bikes over the weekend.

    Giant Defy Advanced Pro 1 2017 ~ 3250 USD retail
    Cervelo R3 disc 2017 ~4300 retail
    Giant TCR Advanced Pro 1 2017
    Time RX INstinct 2014 frameset built up with 105 drivetrain and ultegra wheelset ~2800

    The TCR was very CAAD12 like in fit. Passing on it.

    The R5 was surprisingly pretty heavy for a full carbon bike. Heck, it was atleast as much as my CAADX! Rode quite good however and fit was decent.


    Time RX Instinct put a smile on my face. Sure again like the Parlee, no disc brakes but man what a ride. This was head and shoulders above the rest. the front end is very responsive and the bike can MOVE!

    The Giant defy is a close second that I liked a lot as well.

    the LBS said they would knock off another 10% on the time bringing it to about 2500 out the door.


    Other options the LBS gave me were

    Time VRS fluidity frameset for 2,000 USD (comes with integrated seatpost)
    Time NXR2 Instinct Black Label frameset for 2,300 USD (comes with integrated seatpost)

    Given 105 components are cheap and I can choose a better wheelset than the shimano Ultegra, am left wondering if I should build my own Time. if so, which one?
  • Time Fluidity geo a bit shorter reach, which is better for matching your numbers.
    Few of the bikes you've listed are great options for your current fit:

    time.jpg
    (note that you could go to the L Time Fluidity - 90mm stem with 33mm under the stem - the bike finder tries to avoid a lot of spacers)
    (Also note that the Cervelo R2 is the same geo as R3, picture changed by clicking the 'Also consider' links)

    You could switch from the Zipp 80 bars to Zipp 70 (or any other 70mm reach bar) to gain 10mm on the stem.

    Which would leave the Fluidity as your best option - the Large with a 100x-6 stem, 31mm of spacers (=15mm headset cover + 15mm of round spacers, we won't worry about the 1mm) and a 70mm reach bar.

    The Domane would fit your current position beautifully, though that's not necessarily good as you'd have little room to easily lower the bars as your fitness increases.
  • cyclenutnz wrote:
    Time Fluidity geo a bit shorter reach, which is better for matching your numbers.
    Few of the bikes you've listed are great options for your current fit:

    (note that you could go to the L Time Fluidity - 90mm stem with 33mm under the stem - the bike finder tries to avoid a lot of spacers)
    (Also note that the Cervelo R2 is the same geo as R3, picture changed by clicking the 'Also consider' links)

    You could switch from the Zipp 80 bars to Zipp 70 (or any other 70mm reach bar) to gain 10mm on the stem.

    Which would leave the Fluidity as your best option - the Large with a 100x-6 stem, 31mm of spacers (=15mm headset cover + 15mm of round spacers, we won't worry about the 1mm) and a 70mm reach bar.

    The Domane would fit your current position beautifully, though that's not necessarily good as you'd have little room to easily lower the bars as your fitness increases.

    Thanks for that awesome post. I tried out a few of those bikes yesterday, specifically the Defy, R3, RX Instinct and the ZXRS. Rode all bikes for about 3-4 miles each with a few sprints and climbs, descents with hairpin turns thrown in on the route.

    I ended up buying this frameset, a size large Time ZXRS electronic only from my local LBS.

    Blew my budget significantly but I figured I'd go for what I loved and would make me excited to ride than something that was more utilitarian like a Giant . I love how this frame rides. To me was significantly better than 2017 Cervelo R3, 2017 GIant Defy Adv Pro1, 2015 Parlee Altum R, 2016 Supersix, 2016 Domane SLR6 to me.

    It is the same geometry as the RX Instinct that I test rode briefly last week.
    https://www.7hundred.co.uk/images/ZXRS_Geom.png


    I test rode the RX Instinct again yesterday and also tried out the sales guy's personal race bike, a ZXRS but one size smaller (even though we are the same height) in a medium with a 55cm top tube. His reasoning was that since it is his race bike, the lower stack gets him ina more aggressive position but his correct size would be a 57cm.

    Not everyday a LBS sales person truts you with his $10,000 race bike!! :o

    Now that i've got the frame, I was going to try and figure out the rest of the bits and get the fit as close to perfect as possible.

    Looking at
    Handlebars:
    Time ErgoDrive 44cm (effectively 42cm since they measure outside to outside): Reach is 80mm and drop is 130mm
    Zipp Aero SL70 42cm (measured center to center) Reach is 70mm and drop is 128mm


    Stems:
    Time: 120mm with a +/-10 deg rise.
    3T ARX: 100/110mm +/-6deg rise


    timzxrs1.jpg

    timezxrs2.jpg
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