Newbie trying to sort out a wheel hub

benws1

Hell all. New to this bike mechanic game, so please go easy on me.

I'm currently riding a Raleigh Misceo 1 and have had some issues with the rear wheel. The original one ate the hub (Quando) a few weeks ago. I took it apart, realised it was full of brown toffee-like substance other than grease, cleaned it up, put it back together and tried to ride on it again. It was shot though as the cup was all pitted and wrecked.

I went to my LBS who managed to find another Raleigh wheel in stock (freewheel screw on type rather than cassette free hub) and I bought it. I got it home, realised the hub was set quite tight, so I loosened it off, tried to find the correct tightness (took me ages), plonked it back on the bike and went for a ride. When I got home I noticed that the wheel had a lot of play in it when I wobbled it. So, I took everything apart and tightened it up again.

I left it for a day, then did a quick test ride on it last night. Got home to find that the wheel was wobbly again. I did notice at this point that my QR skewer wasn't very tight, so I tightened it and now the wheel seemed firm. I did a very quick test ride and it seems to have developed a tiny wobble again.

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong with the hub tightening? I'm using the method of loosening the lock nut, hand tightening the cone, hand tightening the lock nut to the cone, then backing the cone into the locknut with a cone spanner etc. I don't think I'm doing anything wrong. However, why would the play come back? I've checked both sides of the axle and both sides have tight locknuts etc.

Any ideas? Quite confused? Thanks.

bbrap

Getting it right can be a bit of an art. I always found the following worked for me. Fully grease the bearings and wind the cones in until the bearing was locked tight. Put on one locknut and tighten against the cone. At this point the bearing should still be locked tight. Now put on the other locknut and wind until it just touches the cone. Put the cone spanner on the already locked cone (the one on the other side),and nip the movable cone back against the other locknut (should move about 1/8 - 1/4 turn). Now fully tighten the locknut without moving the cone again. That should give minimum play but a free running bearing.

Bobbinogs

Are you using 2 spanners to tighten the cone/locknut? You should be. That is why cone spanners are thin so that two can be used in a tight space. One to tighten and the other to hold the other part in place. Just tightening one against the other will inevitably cause some movement. Shimano have since solved this with their click system which works really well.

benws1

Bobbinogs wrote:

Are you using 2 spanners to tighten the cone/locknut? You should be. That is why cone spanners are thin so that two can be used in a tight space. One to tighten and the other to hold the other part in place. Just tightening one against the other will inevitably cause some movement. Shimano have since solved this with their click system which works really well.

Yes, using two spanners. A cone one on the cone and a normal one on the lock nut. I'm backing the cone against the lock nut.

Thanks.

benws1

bbrap wrote:

Getting it right can be a bit of an art. I always found the following worked for me. Fully grease the bearings and wind the cones in until the bearing was locked tight. Put on one locknut and tighten against the cone. At this point the bearing should still be locked tight. Now put on the other locknut and wind until it just touches the cone. Put the cone spanner on the already locked cone (the one on the other side),and nip the movable cone back against the other locknut (should move about 1/8 - 1/4 turn). Now fully tighten the locknut without moving the cone again. That should give minimum play but a free running bearing.

Thanks. I'm only working from one side as the drive side locknut seems welded on.

I'm loosing the lock nut on the other side, hand tightening the cone onto the bearings, hand tightening the lock nut onto the cone, then holding the locknut with one spanner and using a cone spanner to back the cone up to the lock nut. When I then check the axle, there isn't any play (I know you are supposed to leave a little bit to nip up with the QR).

After riding though, the play seems to appear. I guess I'm not doing something right. I have checked both sides though and the locknuts and cones are tight before I ride the bike. Weird.

bbrap

benws1 wrote:

bbrap wrote:

Getting it right can be a bit of an art. I always found the following worked for me. Fully grease the bearings and wind the cones in until the bearing was locked tight. Put on one locknut and tighten against the cone. At this point the bearing should still be locked tight. Now put on the other locknut and wind until it just touches the cone. Put the cone spanner on the already locked cone (the one on the other side),and nip the movable cone back against the other locknut (should move about 1/8 - 1/4 turn). Now fully tighten the locknut without moving the cone again. That should give minimum play but a free running bearing.

Thanks. I'm only working from one side as the drive side locknut seems welded on.

I'm loosing the lock nut on the other side, hand tightening the cone onto the bearings, hand tightening the lock nut onto the cone, then holding the locknut with one spanner and using a cone spanner to back the cone up to the lock nut. When I then check the axle, there isn't any play (I know you are supposed to leave a little bit to nip up with the QR).

After riding though, the play seems to appear. I guess I'm not doing something right. I have checked both sides though and the locknuts and cones are tight before I ride the bike. Weird.

Are the cones still tight once the play has appeared (after the ride)?

benws1

bbrap wrote:

benws1 wrote:

bbrap wrote:

Getting it right can be a bit of an art. I always found the following worked for me. Fully grease the bearings and wind the cones in until the bearing was locked tight. Put on one locknut and tighten against the cone. At this point the bearing should still be locked tight. Now put on the other locknut and wind until it just touches the cone. Put the cone spanner on the already locked cone (the one on the other side),and nip the movable cone back against the other locknut (should move about 1/8 - 1/4 turn). Now fully tighten the locknut without moving the cone again. That should give minimum play but a free running bearing.

Thanks. I'm only working from one side as the drive side locknut seems welded on.

I'm loosing the lock nut on the other side, hand tightening the cone onto the bearings, hand tightening the lock nut onto the cone, then holding the locknut with one spanner and using a cone spanner to back the cone up to the lock nut. When I then check the axle, there isn't any play (I know you are supposed to leave a little bit to nip up with the QR).

After riding though, the play seems to appear. I guess I'm not doing something right. I have checked both sides though and the locknuts and cones are tight before I ride the bike. Weird.

Are the cones still tight once the play has appeared (after the ride)?

Need to check that as I only had about ten minutes last night. I'm due out on the bike tonight, so will look when I get home. The play did seem to disappear yesterday though when I tightened up the QR. Maybe that was a bit too loose too and my test ride loosened it up further.

If the cones are coming loose though, I haven't a clue what I'm doing as both are tight against the locknuts. Maybe it's a faulty hub? It's a non branded thing on a Raleigh branded wheel, so maybe isn't the best. Should function correctly though.

bbrap

If you find it is one of the cones loosening it is worth checking the back of the cone carefully for cleanliness (also check the face of the locknuts). Sometimes a bit of machine swarf or debris gets between the two and although initially tight can allow enough movement to spoil the settings. I doubt its the case as yours have been off and on a couple of times but we are getting close to straw clutching time.

benws1

bbrap wrote:

If you find it is one of the cones loosening it is worth checking the back of the cone carefully for cleanliness (also check the face of the locknuts). Sometimes a bit of machine swarf or debris gets between the two and although initially tight can allow enough movement to spoil the settings. I doubt its the case as yours have been off and on a couple of times but we are getting close to straw clutching time.

Thanks. Will do.

I guess it all hinges on the ride tonight. If I come back and there is play again, I'll take the freewheel off and will examine the hub for play again. If there is play, I'll examine the cone and lock nut surfaces. Difficult to do on the drive side as they are jammed together and I can't get them open. Obviously won't be that side then.

If I do come back and there is play again, I'll be livid.

keezx

A tiny bit of play which can be felt at the rim is never a bad thing.
As long as it doesn't get worse every day I shouldn't worry about it.
A new wheel for screw-on freewheel will be not much better than poor quality these days.....only the Chinese make them for chips money...

benws1

Thanks.

It wasn't a massive amount of play at the rim, but enough to make the rim clonk when I moved it from side to side. It was quite noticeable too.

It's a shame really as I've only recently got into bike mechanics. I bought the Misceo a year and a half ago without really understanding the components it has. I didn't even remove a wheel until a few weeks ago as I didn't use it for ages. When I removed the wheel and noticed it was a freewheel, it made it harder to source a replacement. Cost me £49 from the local bike shop. I'm all for using the local shop. However, that did seem expensive to me. But it was Saturday afternoon and I didn't have anywhere else to look. Had to adjust it when I got home too as the chap at the bike ship did it, but it felt far too stiff to be going into the frame.

I spent total of £144 in the bike shop that day. Got the rim, some new tyres for the old Bianchi, rim tape and a new 7 speed freewheel as the other was making terrible noises. I know the bike itself was only around £300, but it isn't standing up to much abuse. Hence another thread of mine on here looking at a replacement.

Anyhow, I'll take a ride tonight and will report back when I get home. Fingers crossed it'll stay tight. If it doesn't, I'll get some pics and see if anyone can spot where I'm going wrong.

benws1

17 mile ride tonight. Got home, checked wheel, only a tiny bit of play (when giving the wheel a good shake) at about 3 points on the wheel. Result! I'm hoping it stays that way.

The only thing I have done different this time is to back the cone up to the lock nut. Before, I was tightening the lock nut against the cone. Must have been doing it wrong.

Will keep my eye on it. Thanks for your help all.

benws1

Just a quick update.

Everything seems to have been fine with the wheel. Been riding on it at least 3 times a week.

Tonight, however, I got home and noticed a clicking noise emanating from the hub. There is no play in the hub and it spins like before. However, its now clicking, more noticeably when back on the bike.

I think it needs to go back to the shop as ive only had it a few weeks. Any point in trying to pull it apart and fix myself? Probably best to just take it back.

Its a pain as its hard to find another wheel like it. Seriously thinking of changing the bike to an 8 or so speed with a proper cassette setup.