Croix de Fer questions

rob13

Looking at several different ways to get a Croix de Fer at the moment.

Initially thought of buying a frameset, speccing it with full 105 5800, TRP HYRDs and Kinesis Crosslights for about £1100 with a mix of Deda/FSA finishing kit. Weight should have been under 11kg with pedals. Either got the choice of last years mustard frameset which looks very nice or the newer frameset in 2 shades of blue.

Ive got the option of last years Croix De Fer 30 at £1k. Spec below

Frame: Reynolds 725 Heat-Treated Chromoly
Fork: Straight Blade Unicrown Cr-Mo Disc
Cranks: Shimano 105 FC-5800, 50/34T
Bottom Bracket: Shimano SM-BBR60, 68mm
Pedals: Genesis Road
Front Derailleur: Shimano 105 FD-5800
Rear Derailleur: Shimano 105 RD-5800-GS
Shifters: Shimano ST-RS505
Cassette: Shimano CS-5800, 11-32T, 11sp
Chain: KMC X11
Hubs: Shimano HB/FH-RS505 Centrelock, 32H
Rims: Alex Rims Draw 1.9S Tubeless-Ready (TCS), 32H
Tyres: Clement X'Plor USH, 60TPI, 700x35c
Brakes: Shimano BR-RS785 w/ SM-RT68 160mm Icetech Rotors
Brake Levers: w/ Shimano ST-RS505
Handlebar: Genesis RandoX Flared (D125 x R70mm)
Headset: FSA Orbit DL / No.1
Stem: Genesis Road
Grips: Genesis Cork Gel
Saddle: Genesis CX
Seatpost: Genesis Road

So I need to swap out the crank for a 170mm as 172.5mm is too long for me. I'm also unsure on the hood shape of the RS505 shifters, as much as I like the idea of fully hydraulic brakes. I'm assuming that the wheels are pretty heavy in comparison with the Kinesis Crosslights as the build is listed as 11.60kg without pedals? Does it start looking less of a deal once you start pulling it to bits!?

To put a spanner in the works, I tried a 2017 20 model equipped with Tiagra 4700. Wow, how they have come on since 4600! They felt better than the 5700s I have on my other bike, and slight weight aside, they shift as good as i'd need. Look smart too.

Im not a weight weenie, but my MTB is just under 12kg, summer bike around 8kg and my current winter bike just over 10kg. I intend this to replace the winter bike and also be used as a summer adventurer which may eat into the use of the carbon summer steed. Ive heard many good things about the Croix De Fer but the one criticism people seem to have is that its heavy. I appreciate its a weighty frame meant for carrying but the versatility of it seems to be appealing. I also like the idea of all day comfort on a slightly more relaxed road bike.

Welcome all your thoughts good and bad!

mrb123

1000 notes for the 2016 Croix seems a good price. Definitely a bonus to get full hydro brakes.

Why not buy the full bike and then try to sell the stock wheels before you use them. Then stick on a nice pair of handbuilts, maybe H Plus Son Hydra rims with the hubs of you choice.

As a Croix de Fer owner, I'm not bothered about the weight. Yes, it's a bit of a tank but it just means the summer bike is even more exciting to ride when it appears again in Spring!

veronese68

Proper full hydraulics or a lash up compromise? That's a no brainer for me. As above if it worries you sell the stock wheels and buy a new set. Will you really notice 2.5mm on the cranks? If so selling the old ones will offset a chunk of the new ones.
I tried one before buying my Kinesis and found it rode really nicely, but they are heavy. It felt more spritely than the weight would suggest. Tyre clearance was nowhere near as good as on my bike for off roading. So opted against it.

src1

If you like the idea of steel but want something a bit lighter have you thought about the Equilibrium Disc frame? It already comes with carbon forks with an alloy steerer, but as it has a tapered headtube, you have a lot more options for aftermarket forks should you with to upgrade it down the line.

Genesis say it has 'generous' tyre clearance, but obviously it's not going to be the same as the CdF, so it depends what you want. The CDF 30 for £1000 looks like a good deal and agree that you should get full hydro brakes.

https://www.ukbikesdepot.com/m90b0s804p ... meset_2016

rob13

I think £1k is a good price for a bike of this spec, hence seriously looking at it in contrast with a build (which usually works out cheaper with Genesis). I do like the 2017 30 colours, but at a premium of £300 just for a paint job, I think i'll just get the root beer and blue one. Will swap the wheels out though and buy something lighter.

Other than the Crosslights, any recommendations on a wheelset for a 76kg rider under £300?

964cup

Good price. But remember the Croix de Fer will never feel sprightly, so I'd not get too worked up about weight. That said, those Alexrims wheels will be heavy - I ran my CdF on Crosslights, as you are proposing to. Work well tubeless, as well.

rob13

Having looked at the built up weights of those Alex rims on RS505 hubs with 32 spokes at 14g each, theyre about 2.3kg in total. I'm up for swapping wheels as it'd worth it with that kind of weight.

Roberto di Velo

As others have said, £1000 for a full hydraulic setup is excellent value.

I'm not sure where you are based, but if you are anywhere near Bradford (of can get there), Oli at Paul Milne Cycles put together my bespoke CdF build for not a lot more money than that. I can't really recommend them enough -the bike was beautifully put together and exactly to my requirements.

veronese68

Rob13 wrote:

Other than the Crosslights, any recommendations on a wheelset for a 76kg rider under £300?

See what you can get a set of handbuilts for, Novatec hubs and some decent rims should be achievable.

rob13

Roberto di Velo wrote:

As others have said, £1000 for a full hydraulic setup is excellent value.

I'm not sure where you are based, but if you are anywhere near Bradford (of can get there), Oli at Paul Milne Cycles put together my bespoke CdF build for not a lot more money than that. I can't really recommend them enough -the bike was beautifully put together and exactly to my requirements.

I've emailed those guys and they have given me a similar price but that was with mechanical brakes on a 2016 frameset which now ive seen in the flesh, i'm not quite as keen on the colour. I think it'll be difficult to get a bike built with fully hydro for a grand anyway. A wheel swap shouldnt be more than 150 really once the standard wheels are sold.

rob13

On the sizing, any owners find the top tube particularly high? I'm sized between small and medium. Small felt too short and low, whilst medium felt about right if not a bit high at the front (full stack) but when on flat feet, the top tube was tickling the testicles. At 174cm, I felt comfortable on the medium (very similar reach to my supersix but stack is nearly 70mm higher!) Not tested a 30 with the longer hydraulic hoods though.

mrb123

Rob13 wrote:

On the sizing, any owners find the top tube particularly high? I'm sized between small and medium. Small felt too short and low, whilst medium felt about right if not a bit high at the front (full stack) but when on flat feet, the top tube was tickling the testicles. At 174cm, I felt comfortable on the medium (very similar reach to my supersix but stack is nearly 70mm higher!) Not tested a 30 with the longer hydraulic hoods though.

Some might consider tickling of the testicles to be a bonus!

rob13

MrB123 wrote:

Rob13 wrote:

On the sizing, any owners find the top tube particularly high? I'm sized between small and medium. Small felt too short and low, whilst medium felt about right if not a bit high at the front (full stack) but when on flat feet, the top tube was tickling the testicles. At 174cm, I felt comfortable on the medium (very similar reach to my supersix but stack is nearly 70mm higher!) Not tested a 30 with the longer hydraulic hoods though.

Some might consider tickling of the testicles to be a bonus!

In any other scenario outside of fitting a bike I would say it was!

src1

I'm 176cm and have a medium. It's high at the front, but with the stem slammed it's not too bad and just means I use the drops a lot.

At 174cm I'd be tempted by a S with a 12cm stem.

rob13

SRC1 wrote:

I'm 176cm and have a medium. It's high at the front, but with the stem slammed it's not too bad and just means I use the drops a lot.

At 174cm I'd be tempted by a S with a 12cm stem.

As the reach of the Small is 10mm, does that mean that to size up, it should just be a 110 or 100 stem to get a similar fit? It sounds straightforward, but theres fork rake to take into account so a higher set of spacers on the small should make it a much smaller bike than a medium with no spacers?

src1

A small with a 12cm stem will have the same reach as a medium with an 11cm stem. However, the stack will be lower. The fork rake isn't relevant from a stack and reach PoV, but it does affect toe overlap. If the medium is tickling your testicles, go for a small and buy something else for the testicle tickling

rob13

Sorry I should have meant head tube angle because that does directly affect the reach with a high stack.

964cup

Sure, but it's simple trigonometry to work out how much shorter the effective reach will be for a given HT angle, and then buy a longer stem to compensate. Unless my memory fails me, sin(90-HTAngle)*StackHeight should give the effective reduction in reach. E.g. (measuring to the centre of the stem for specious accuracy):

71 degree HT angle (therefore 19 degrees effective)
Stem height 40mm (Zipp Service Course), so 20mm at midline
Say 40mm of spacers (you'd not want more, surely?)

sin(19) x 60mm = 19.5mm

So you buy a 20mm longer stem to compensate for the stack height.

964cup

Hmm. Thinking about it, perhaps they already allow for the stem in their reach calculation (they should, I suppose). In which case it's sin(19)*40 (i.e. just the spacers) which is 13mm, so buy a 15mm longer stem.

Or, of course, buy bars with a longer reach - say Ritchey WCS, which have an 80mm reach rather than Zipp SC70 or Deda, which have a 70mm reach. That won't affect the reach to the tops, of course, but it will to the hoods and drops.

rob13

964Cup wrote:

Hmm. Thinking about it, perhaps they already allow for the stem in their reach calculation (they should, I suppose). In which case it's sin(19)*40 (i.e. just the spacers) which is 13mm, so buy a 15mm longer stem.

Or, of course, buy bars with a longer reach - say Ritchey WCS, which have an 80mm reach rather than Zipp SC70 or Deda, which have a 70mm reach. That won't affect the reach to the tops, of course, but it will to the hoods and drops.

Wow, some real maths there! Its been too long since I poked a calculator with anything other than +-/x so thanks for very much for doing that for me. The small fits, but the medium fits also. As the medium is higher at the front, I'll probably benefit from a medium with less spacers rather than running a small with all the spacers (and potentially a flipped stem).
I put my Racelight (with flipped stem) and the Croix together and the Croix is about 10mm higher at the front.

rob13

Bought the 2016 Croix De Fer 30 in small after riding the 2017 small and medium together. Decided that the smaller one would defintely be better. Should arrive tomorrow, plan is to swap out the wheels and sell them but still can't decide on what to replace with. Looking forward to getting on it and having a bash around the lanes and onto the other stuff I wouldnt use a road bike on..

Roberto di Velo

Meant to post before that I thought the small CdF would be the best bet. I'm 173cm and ride a small.

Given the shortish top-tube I thought I'd need a longer stem, but maybe because of the stack height I've found a shorter stem is actually a better position for me.