Help me choose a wheelset for my Scott CR1 SL..

daveb99

Having recently bought an excellent condition used Scott CR1 SL frame I will soon be embarking on the build. I have an Ultegra 6800 groupset to put on it, and mostly Ritchey WCS finishing kit (ally, not carbon), but I'm looking for some advice on wheels.

My riding is mostly local training/fitness rides, anything between quick blasts (15 miles or so) and 25 - 40 mile rides, but I'm looking to go on longer rides a little more and some sportives starting this year.

I have recently acquired some very nice hardly used Campagnolo Eurus wheels, they are the latest version, and pretty light at 1475g on my scales. I've read that they have a relatively harsh ride (for some) due to their stiffness - brilliant for responsiveness, acceleration and climbing, not so great for long rides perhaps. I'm only 72kg too so I'm not sure whether I'll feel it more than average or not.

They have 15C rims, and with the trend towards wider rims and tyres, my plan was to fit 25mm tyres to them, but I've read a few things about getting more pinch flats because of the lower pressure and slight rim/tyre mismatch (light bulb profile), and a slightly squidgy overall feel (e.g. when cornering), when mounting 25mm tyres on 15C rims - again I don't know how much of this is true and whether it's a real issue or not.

Because of the above, I've found myself looking at alternatives - either 15C rims which maybe aren't as stiff, or 17C rims to run 25mm tyres. My budget would be up to about £400ish but I don't have to spend all that. Seems sensible to go for something wider as I'd be buying new

1. Campagnolo Zonda (Latest version) (17C) - 1596g, £325

2. Mavic Kysrium Elite (2016) (17C) - 1550g, £450

3. Hunt Race Aero (17C) - 1420g, £369

4. Cero AR22 (15C) 1420g, £260

5. Cero AR30 (15C) - 1399g, £370

6. Shimano RS81 C24 (15C) - 1502g, £360

I'm sure there are others I should consider too - this is just a short list of a few I've looked at so far. Quite like the look of the Hunts and they seem to get great reviews, hard to beat at the price perhaps. On the flip side, I got the Eurus for a good price and they are a lot of wheel for the money, that's for sure. They spin forever too.

I'd really appreciate some advice / experience of these wheels, and perhaps some thoughts on what I should do.

daniel_b

Assuming this is a 2012 frame (?) I believe more than one person has had stay contact issues running a 25 on the rear, clearance is tight.

Personally I will be running a 25 on the front, and a 23 on the rear.

daveb99

Daniel B wrote:

Assuming this is a 2012 frame (?) I believe more than one person has had stay contact issues running a 25 on the rear, clearance is tight.

Personally I will be running a 25 on the front, and a 23 on the rear.

It' is indeed a 2012 frame and that's a good point - I remember reading about that on the SL thread. I have some Fulcrum R5 LGs (17C rim) running 25mm tyres so I'll see what the clearance is like. If it's too tight that will certainly narrow it down a bit....

Bobbinogs

I wouldn't obsess too much about wheel weight. MHO, and I do a fair bit of lumpy riding, is that anything under ~1650g for a wheelset is fine and will feel good particularly if you get some decent rubber on there. A well built wheelset of 1600g will feel much nicer and perform better than a set that is a 100g lighter and made of cheese. A decent set of hubs is always worth the investment particularly if you ride all year but with most factory wheels a great set of hubs (like the Ultegras on RS81s) will just end up in the bin when the rims wear out, even though the hubs could have gone on for another 5-10 years.

Running 25s on a 15C rim really isn't that bad in terms of bulbing, but I wouldn't want tyres to go any wider than that. I briefly had some Cero wheels which were under 14C and the handling did feel compromised with 25s but that could have been just me and the time of year. I have also had the previous version of Zondas and they definitely felt harsh, even with 25s, but some folks I know say this has been sorted with the new wider rim. Perhaps.

I can understand the post above as 25s on a wider rim is a great combo offering good handling, speed and comfort...so it is a real shame that some frame manufacturers haven't sorted the clearance issue yet. Getting a 25 on a 17C rim at the back (particularly when run at the optimal lower pressure) will pay dividends for longer rides. Perhaps, as suggested, the compromise combo of 23 on a 17C will work well for you as that will flatten the tyre profile so that it comes out at 25ish anyway. Depends on that clearance though...

However, why not just try the Euros and see how you get on with 25s? Is it that they are new and you do not want to lose any potential resell value??

As an aside, "wheels spinning for ever" means nothing.

keef66

daveb99 wrote:

Daniel B wrote:

Assuming this is a 2012 frame (?) I believe more than one person has had stay contact issues running a 25 on the rear, clearance is tight.

Personally I will be running a 25 on the front, and a 23 on the rear.

It' is indeed a 2012 frame and that's a good point - I remember reading about that on the SL thread. I have some Fulcrum R5 LGs (17C rim) running 25mm tyres so I'll see what the clearance is like. If it's too tight that will certainly narrow it down a bit....

I have an RS10 wheelset on mine. Ran 25mm Pro4 SC front and rear for a while, thought the clearance looked OK, and enjoyed the ride from the slightly oversize tyres. But last year when fixing a rear puncture I saw some scoring to the inside of the chainstays. I assume from the occasional bit of road debris / chippings sticking to the tyre and being forced through the gap. I now run a 23 at the back.

dwanes

It sounds like you are thinking about things too much and listening to too much twaddle on the internet.
Just stick on your Campagnolo Eurus wheels with 23mm tyres (or 25mm if they fit) and ride the bloody thing!

mfin

I have Eurus running on 25 Veloflex Corsa G+ clinchers, great wheels, not harsh. Don't worry about squidgyness on the rim width as long as you have clearance (doubt you'll have a problem), and if not just run 23's. You'd be spending a lot of money to get wheels as good as those Eurus.

I seriously would not bother with any of the ones you suggested, get using the Eurus. The bearings are very cheap to service too as they're the same as Zonda ones.

trailflow

Have you even ridden the Euro's yet ? Did they feel harsh and unbearable ? If you must switch them out as soon as possible. Sell 'em to me for less than you paid..... :twisted: :roll:

daveb99

Thanks for the replies - I've checked the clearance with a 25mm GP4000S II fitted on the Eurus and it is about 1.5mm either side (95 psi). It looks pretty tight as others have said so I'll probably run 23s on them to avoid any rubbing.

I'm going to try out the Eurus hopefully tomorrow on 23s, albeit on my winter bike - but at least it's a direct comparison with my Fulcrum R5 LG's running 25mm tyres. I'm expecting it to be very different.

I take the points about keeping the Eurus - it's a cracking wheelset, basically same as Fulcrum Racing Zero. I guess I just want to make sure the ride is compliant enough for longer rides, having heard a few things about the Ally spokes giving a firmer ride etc (admittedly on the Internet.........)

Out of interest, being a reasonably low weight at 72kg, what pressures would be appropriate for 23's? I usually run at about 100-110 psi but I'm wondering if that is higher than it needs to be.

Bobbinogs

110 is certainly too high, IMO. A lot comes down to personal choice and that will also be dependent on weight, tyres and the local roads (you want the min pressure to stop snakebikes, which are fairly rare if riding on lovely smooth roads without potholes...).

Why not try 90F/95R and see how you get on?

keef66

I'm a bit lighter than you at 67kg. I run my rear 23mm at 85psi. Front 25mm as low as 65psi.

It's all a balancing act to optimise comfort and handling at the same time as minimising the risk of pinch flats.

(at least I think those are the pressures I use; I'm trusting the gauge on the track pump)

daveb99

The roads round here are not too bad - fairly smooth and not many potholes - which I avoid anyway.

I think running the wider 17C rims on the CR1 SL frame is probably out of the question due to clearance, so it's really down to a question of how much I can tolerate the firm(ish) ride of the Eurus, probably on 23's. The plus side is that they are great for climbing, apparently, so that might bring other benefits. Guess I could always look at changing the saddle or going for a carbon seat post to absorb a bit more buzz/vibration.

mfin

As above, your tyre pressures are too high, you can drop them to 90 on 23mm and more like 80 on 25mm, either width will have you more comfortable to how you have been riding too.

daniel_b

I am the same weight as you, and I run 90 rear, 80 front.

Works for me, no plague of fairy visits or anything, and safe handling.

Having googled your wheels, they look like a lush pair of light wheels, and I would have them on there already :-)
FWIW I have some 1420g Mavic wheels that have some carbon spokes in there, and it's perfectly comfy for me, even for centuries - I would say as a whole it is not an uncomfortable frame.
Not saying that means they are the same comfort level as your wheels by any means, but they are built for lightness and good climbing and a similar weight.
*I do have carbon seatpost, stem and handlebars, so not sure how much that aids comfort for me.
On the flip side, I have a rock hard carbon saddle fitted, with carbon rails, so that won't shield me much.
Get the wheels on, and get some pics up on the CR1 thread!

indyp

On my SL I run 25mm conti GP4000ii on Mavic Kysrium Elite wheels, both the new model and previous one, without any problems of rubbing etc. Also, inflate anywhere between 80-90 psi and the ride is fine, not plush by any means but ok.

If I was to choose between Zonda or Elite, then I'd go with Zondas. There's not much difference in weight but there is with saving.

daveb99

Thanks again for the replies / advice.

If I decide to keep the Eurus - and I should certainly at least give them a go on the CR1 SL - I think I'll try them with 25mm tyres and see, they are pretty stiff I think so I'm hoping they won't rub.

Daniel - 90/80 psi sounds like a good plan - that's what I was planning to try out firstly on 25mm tyres. Wish I could just stick 'em on the CR1 and post pics - it's a bare frame at the moment and I think my wife has lots of jobs lined up so this build might be a while....... :roll:

luv2ride

Just to say I successfully run 25mm Vittoria CG Paves on some carbon rims with 16mm internal width, and seems to fit ok. Pressures around 80 psi front, 85 psi rear. Be careful to check the rear alignment of the carbon dropouts as some CR1 SL frames have a known issue for not holding the wheel straight, including mine. I just align mine by hand and ensure the qr's are tight. Been fine like this for a few years 8)

daveb99

Update - installed my Conti 4 Seasons 25mm tyres off my winter bike wheels on the Campagnolo Eurus wheels and I've now had a chance to try them out - my usual quick 15 mile ride (winter bike).

Interestingly the 'light bulb effect' is minimal on these rims, and far less so than with a 25mm GP4000S II - it is 2mm narrower at the same pressure. Makes me think perhaps I should run these on the CR1 when it is built, as the clearance is fine (tried the rear wheel in the frame).

I ran them at 85psi front, 90psi rear, and they felt fine - not at all harsh, just really responsive and with great lateral stiffness. Great wheels

They are definitely a keeper - just need to decide on which 25mm tyres to use on the CR1. GP4000S II don't have enough clearance, Conti 4 Seasons definitely do (3mm+ either side).

Any suggestions as to alternatives ? Something fast (summer use only) but with good puncture protection, and comes up 'narrow' when inflated to give me as much clearance as poss? I could always go for 23mm GP 4000S II I suppose, but that would negate the benefits of the wider tyres I guess..

keef66

You're going through nearly the same process I did. First built it up with some wire bead Rubinos in 25mm, just to get it on the road as quickly / cheaply as possible. They fitted fine, but punctured easily and wet grip was a bit dodgy. Then I swapped in the 25mm GP 4 Seasons off the winter bike. Also fitted fine but I wanted something a bit lighter / grippier. Hence the 25mm Pro 4 SC, which I thought fitted OK, but in hindsight didn't give enough rear clearance for summer riding on recently chip-sealed roads. So I stuck a 23mm one on the back, which lasted 38 miles before a sliced sidewall effectively killed it. Replaced it with a 23mm Pro 4 Endurance, and that's the way it is at the moment; 25mm Pro 4 SC on the front and 23mm Pro 4 Endurance on the rear. Not sure I can feel the difference in terms of rear end comfort; the SDS stays do seem to work. I do like having the 25 at the front; I can feel very little road buzz and I'm sure there's a bigger contact patch so more confident cornering.

daveb99

That's helpful - cheers. I think I may try the GP4000S II in 23mm, front and rear. I had them on my previous wheels (the Mk1 version) and they inflate pretty big for a 23mm tyre. This is further confirmed by the fact that the 25mm version (Mk II) comes out at 27-28mm wide at about 95psi - I measured it using calipers yesterday. It's very big for a 25mm tyre.

So my thinking is that a GP4000S II (23mm) is actually close to a 25mm size anyway. Plus it's the "right" width for my 15C Campagnolo Eurus (they are 20.8mm external I think) and I won't get any clearance issues. So technically, I suppose as it's a bit wider than a 'normal' 23C tyre, it will give a bit more comfort and the rolling resistance should be a bit better than other 23mm tyres if I run it at say 90-100 psi.

That's my theory anyway - I need to give up beer and takeaways to really notice the difference of course

mfin

GP4000sII do feel a bit crap, if you are running for summer use, try some Corsa G+ in 25mm and put some latex tubes in. If you're the kind of person that will feel a difference then you will, because you won't get much better feeling tyres/tubes than that.

Corsa G+ in 25mm don't come up that big, I can measure them on my Eurus if you like, but it will be a careful ruler job I'm afraid as I don't have any calipers.

Bobbinogs

Blimey! GP4000iiS "feel a bit crap"? You're a tough critic mfin :-) I would say they are one of the best clinchers out there, albeit with some features. Sure, the G+ feel faster and offer a great suppleness but they cost a fair old price and offer little durability. Probably a great choice though, as you say, for this usage as they are narrower and flatter.

daveb99

Thanks again for the advice. The Corsa G+ looks like a great tyre but only for speed and handling, less so for durability.

I'm thinking of trying Conti Grand Prix (not GP4000S II) as they are well reviewed it seems, with good puncture protection, and the 25mm size apparently comes up smaller than the GP4000S. Only £19 each too.

Does anyone have any experience of them?

Bobbinogs

Yeah, they are OK but don't offer a WOW factor. I found the grip to be a little less than reassuring when compared to the high standards set by the 4000iiS or One tyres but I guess there has to be some trade off given the price. I took mine after after a month and went back to Schwalbe Ones, even in the winter. I like them a lot and am prepared to give up a little on durability and puncture protection if it means I enjoy my riding more.

Can't remember how the GP 25s came up in terms of sizing as it is not too critical for my Allez. Perhaps someone else can clarify??

daveb99

Thanks, so they are OK but not outstanding it seems.

I always err on the side of caution when cornering anyway - more so now as I recently broke my wrist after coming off my MTB and I'd rather be safe than in a heap on the ground - it will take some time for me to build up my confidence back to where it was.

In summary, I'm looking for a 25mm tyre that offers decent puncture protection, good all round grip (in the wet too) and with good rolling resistance. 25mm would be best from a comfort point of view too of course.

If anyone has the Conti GP in 25mm and can measure the width when fitted to a 15C rim that would be great. Another option might be the GP4000S II in 23mm as they come up wider than their size - so the 23 is like a 25 for width, the 25 is more like 27-28 (hence not enough clearance on the CR1 SL frame).

svetty

Just go with the GP4000s in 23s and be happy

daveb99

Update - went for the 25mm Conti Grand Prix tyres (not GP4000S II) and they have come up at exactly 25mm width at 90psi.

They are perfect - the rear has plenty of clearance in the frame (3-4mm each side). So I'll get the improved comfort and RR benefits of 25mm but hopefully no rubbing on the frame.

Absolute bargain at Wiggle too - £28 for two, after £10 off a £40 spend.

Thanks for everyone's help. If they do rub, I'll try 23mm GP4000S II's as they will come up at 25mm anyway..