Lezyne GPS, any good?

ugo.santalucia

Apologies for yet another thread on GPS computers

Price is great, but is it good?

I need some form of GPS directions on rides I can upload (Audax or riders mapped with Strava)... turn by turn i fine... decent battery (22h is fine)... don't need power output, cadence, HR and all that stuff.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/lezyne-macro-cy ... 60788863uk

thespanishadam

I am not sure if you have seen the dcrainmaker reviews, worth checking none the less. There doesn't seem to be many reviews left elsewhere..

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/09/han ... puter.html

Hopefully some sort of use.

ugo.santalucia

basically the catch is that you need a smartphone to work with it... with all the problems of connectivity, poor battery life of the phone, software compatibility etc...

I'd rather avoid all of that... I'd rather get a box that does everything, rather than two boxes that need to speak to one another

lbmxj560

I bought one for my wife for christmas (the Macro GPS with mapping) and have been really really impressed with it so far.

You only need a phone if you want the on-the-go notifications and or route mapping on the fly. It works just fine without it for recording the ride and data. You then just connect to the phone, or computer, afterwards to upload to wherever you want.

You can also pre-load GPX/TCX routes that will then work without the phone.

All in all, whilst not quite as snazzy as the Garmin (it is a touch bulky) I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. Absolutely brilliant.

kingrollo

lbmxj560 wrote:

I bought one for my wife for christmas (the Macro GPS with mapping) and have been really really impressed with it so far.

You only need a phone if you want the on-the-go notifications and or route mapping on the fly. It works just fine without it for recording the ride and data. You then just connect to the phone, or computer, afterwards to upload to wherever you want.

You can also pre-load GPX/TCX routes that will then work without the phone.

All in all, whilst not quite as snazzy as the Garmin (it is a touch bulky) I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. Absolutely brilliant.

Those seem like pretty big comprises to me - given that, for example and edge touring for £150 would do that without the need for a mobile.

ugo.santalucia

lbmxj560 wrote:

I bought one for my wife for christmas (the Macro GPS with mapping) and have been really really impressed with it so far.

You only need a phone if you want the on-the-go notifications and or route mapping on the fly. It works just fine without it for recording the ride and data. You then just connect to the phone, or computer, afterwards to upload to wherever you want.

You can also pre-load GPX/TCX routes that will then work without the phone.

All in all, whilst not quite as snazzy as the Garmin (it is a touch bulky) I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. Absolutely brilliant.

OK. What I need is to upload a GPX and I'd like step by step directions without the use of a phone... anything else is pretty much a bonus

So as I understand it does do that? 'Cause I read a review which suggested for directions you need to pair it to a phone

ugo.santalucia

No turn-by-turn unless you pair it with a phone...

What's the alternative? Following a line on a B&W LC display?

tenohfive

I've got a Super in my hand that turned up yesterday. Yet to use it in anger (and the snow gods, long may they reign, may have a say in when I can.)

I can't answer this totally but only offer some pointers.

Basically I don't think you need the phone present during the ride - you setup your route and your phone (or tablet I presume, if you took that route) running the Lezyne Ally app pushes the mapping and directions through to the GPS.
If you don't have access to a smartphone I suspect that it'll be possible to copy them on via a PC - when plugged into the PC it does have a folder marked 'Routes' but I don't know what format it takes - I don't think .gpx works (you can upload .gpx's to their website though, and it'll spit out the route into your saved routes - it just doesn't give you a downloadable file, you need the phone app to push it across.) I've seen reference to .tcx or .fit maybe..?

Unfortunately I'm having issues with getting it to sync over a route I made in the route creation part of their website - it's throwing a wobble over firmware, telling me to update it when (as far as I can see) it's up to date, prior to pushing over the ride.

I think there's some confusion over routes vs. mapping with the Lezyne's though. They are two distinct things. If you want to follow a preset route, it will push it across and you can do that before you leave. Likewise if you want to enter a destination. You'll need a smartphone, but if you're that dead set against carrying one you can leave it at home (I must be a minority in always having my phone with me judging by the Lezyne bashing.) But if - whilst out - you decide to go somewhere else, you need the phone to come up with a new route and push it across.
Personally that principle works for me. My smartphone has a nicely sized, easy to use, clear screen, so using that to enter the destination and pick out a route makes a lot of sense to me. Not that I imagine I'll be doing that often - normally I just follow routes, which can be pre-loaded (as best I understand it - when I get it working I'll confirm that.)

So I like the functionality. Where I feel it's being let down is the software - it sounds a little flaky right now. But they're still new units and at £70 less than a 520 for something so feature packed I'm prepared to take a gamble on Lezyne sorting that as time goes on. Given they want a chunk of that Garmin dominated market they have a lot of incentive to. Others may want to hedge their bets for now.

SME

You don't get turn by turn on the Macro if you're importing GPX / TCX flies from Strava - it'll give you a line / bead crumb trail to follow. You can produce routes with Ride With GPS (free account) which will give TBT notifications.

In the recent London underground strike my station near my work was closed (even though it has a mainline service). I used Lezyne's app to get me a route to the next mainline station - seemed to work fine, taking me through some paths that were cycle/pedestrian only.

I also consideted buying the Edge Touring Plus but although it connects with ANT+ it's only for heartrate and I wanted speed and cadence recorded to, and maybe later power, so went for the Macro instead.

ugo.santalucia

Thanks...

shouldn't technology be a bit more straightforward? It's a minefield... I need something I can rely on, with a battery that lasts at least 12 hours in constant use and tells me where to go unequivocally from a GPX route... if that is too difficult in 2016, then I'll probably just print a and laminate a set of directions a la Audax and carry a map in my pocket for when I get lost.

SME

I think on your position I'd make a list of all the features I want (with a score of importance next to them), and then see which GPS unit ticks the most boxes, and if none tick all the boxes, then go for the unit with the highest score.

Maybe you could factor in negatives too - I also once considered an Edge 520 but didn't like the idea of loading maps for different areas. It also had training metrics that I didn't think I'd use and didn't want to pay the higher price for.

At the end of the day there may not be a GPS that meets all your requirements and you may have to make the best compromise.

Good luck,
Steve

MisterMuncher

I've tried a number of GPS yokes, and mapping is compromised somehow on all of them. From what I understand, the Lezyne is no more or less limited than any immediately competing unit.

Always liked their kit in general, though. They make great lights, and I'm a huge fan of the Flow cage. Both are unobtrusive, well thought out and avowedly non-quirky items.

tenohfive

SME wrote:

You don't get turn by turn on the Macro if you're importing GPX / TCX flies from Strava - it'll give you a line / bead crumb trail to follow. You can produce routes with Ride With GPS (free account) which will give TBT notifications.

That's handy to know for me too, thanks. I'd just assumed that importing it into the GPS Root website would spit out TBT.

Can you import gpx/tcx files into Ride With GPS to end up with the same result?

ugo.santalucia

SME wrote:

I think on your position I'd make a list of all the features I want (with a score of importance next to them), and then see which GPS unit ticks the most boxes, and if none tick all the boxes, then go for the unit with the highest score.

Maybe you could factor in negatives too - I also once considered an Edge 520 but didn't like the idea of loading maps for different areas. It also had training metrics that I didn't think I'd use and didn't want to pay the higher price for.

At the end of the day there may not be a GPS that meets all your requirements and you may have to make the best compromise.

Good luck,
Steve

It seems what I want/need is covered by the 200 pound plus units, which is way more than I would want to spend on a computer. Even those have severe limitations in terms of battery life.

It seems the Audax folks use the Garmin Etrex, because you can replace the two AA batteries on the go for long rides... that's not cheap either though.

I definitively don't want something that relies on a smart phone... firstly because I don't have one, secondly because even if I bought one, based on my wife's battery life, it would be inadequate. My old fashioned phone's battery lasts a week, even more if I don't make calls

SME

tenohfive wrote:

SME wrote:

You don't get turn by turn on the Macro if you're importing GPX / TCX flies from Strava - it'll give you a line / bead crumb trail to follow. You can produce routes with Ride With GPS (free account) which will give TBT notifications.

That's handy to know for me too, thanks. I'd just assumed that importing it into the GPS Root website would spit out TBT.

Can you import gpx/tcx files into Ride With GPS to end up with the same result?

When I've imported routes from Strava to the Ally app or GPSROOT (one and the same really) it doesn't come up with TBT. The only way I've found to get this is either using their GPS route finder on their site, inputting a destination on the app, or using Ride With GPS and exporting as a. tcx file. There is a default setting to warn of turns 30 mtrs in advance.

kingrollo

A few points

IME - following a breadcrumb trail is actually pretty good when you get the hang of it. - done it on an old edge 205

None of the current devices IMO are yet to replicate a full on car sat nav.

With all of them there is a learning curve.

I always carry mobile on my rides - Battery life is never an issue - if it looks like Im running low - I just turn it of, to save enough juice to make 'that call' - should I ever need to. I wouldn't want it using its GPS.

ugo.santalucia

They all seem to be targeting the fast training-Strava segment chasing market, with a lot of options I can't care less for (cadence, HR, power, altimeter, live segments) The only exception I can see is the Edge Touring, which in many ways doesn't do what a touring device is supposed to do. If it's for touring, certainly battery life should be the primary concern

kingrollo

ugo.santalucia wrote:

They all seem to be targeting the fast training-Strava segment chasing market, with a lot of options I can't care less for (cadence, HR, power, altimeter, live segments) The only exception I can see is the Edge Touring, which in many ways doesn't do what a touring device is supposed to do. If it's for touring, certainly battery life should be the primary concern

I have the edge touring - Haven't really used it much due to weather\illness - wasn't aware that battery life was an issue though....
I suppose if you doing multi day tours it would be...!!

tenohfive

It still surprises me how many people on here worry about battery life on their smartphone - my cheap crappy Motorola (which cost less than £40) can get through a day of moderate to heavy use and still have 40% battery. I've had it run the GPS for nav for north of 3 hours (with all the background data/bells and whistles still running) and still had plenty of juice to spare.

I'm not suggesting it's use in this situation - I just don't think it's unreasonable of Lezyne to design something that incorporates a smartphone to allow for easier entry of routes if you change your mind whilst you're out. Everyone I know owns a smartphone and I rarely hear of them completely finishing off their battery by the time they get home.

A couple of tips for anyone with an Android phone that is really struggling though - turn off wifi when not connected to a network, and if you need to extend battery life turn off mobile data. You'll need to turn it on to get WhatsApp's etc, or to use the internet - but by not hunting for wifi and mobile data you'll save a good chunk of battery. (For the record, I only do the latter when I'm spending several days away from a charger.)

ugo.santalucia

If you have to rely on the phone to talk to the gps which in turn talks to you, things are bound to get messy. If the market is the fast training group it is not a problem, but if you are in the middle of nowhere relying on the gps taking you to your destination, then I am not so sure I want that.
Way too much faff for my likes

SME

ugo.santalucia wrote:

If you have to rely on the phone to talk to the gps which in turn talks to you, things are bound to get messy. If the market is the fast training group it is not a problem, but if you are in the middle of nowhere relying on the gps taking you to your destination, then I am not so sure I want that.
Way too much faff for my likes

Any GPS system will need you to input a new destination, that's why we have them, to find out way. So yes, we do rely on the GPS we're using to take us to our destinations. I'm sorry but I think I'm missing your point here???

Just think of the phone as a TV remote...

tenohfive wrote:

Basically I don't think you need the phone present during the ride - you setup your route and your phone (or tablet I presume, if you took that route) running the Lezyne Ally app pushes the mapping and directions through to the GPS.

This is true. Once the Lezyne has the directions, the phone can even be turned off.
As I said, on the day of the underground strike the feature to get directions to a different station came in very handy, and it probably took less time to sort that than some of the calls I make - didn't 'get messy' at all really.

.... a remote you can take the batteries out of but the TV will still work!

davidof

Lezyne doesn't do vam or vertical ascent, which makes me think they are not that much in touch with the training / cycling market - they claim there is no call for it but it is one of the more important measures on strava.

It is easy to do - even if you don't want it.

The other thing, a bike computer should be useable without the manufacturer's flakey software or website (always under developed and buggier than even the free alternatives), connect to a computer as a USB drive and spit out standard data formats: gpx, fit, tcx. (the Lezyne may do this).

ugo.santalucia

davidof wrote:

Lezyne doesn't do vam or vertical ascent, which makes me think they are not that much in touch with the training / cycling market - they claim there is no call for it but it is one of the more important measures on strava.

It is easy to do - even if you don't want it.

The other thing, a bike computer should be useable without the manufacturer's flakey software or website (always under developed and buggier than even the free alternatives), connect to a computer as a USB drive and spit out standard data formats: gpx, fit, tcx. (the Lezyne may do this).

Not worried about VAM, it's a calculation that takes 3 seconds... and it's only worth doing it on maybe 1-2 climbs per (hilly) ride...
But yes, it should all be very simple... put gpx in, get directions, get gpx out use it wherever you want

ugo.santalucia

SME wrote:

You don't get turn by turn on the Macro if you're importing GPX / TCX flies from Strava - it'll give you a line / bead crumb trail to follow. You can produce routes with Ride With GPS (free account) which will give TBT notifications.

All in all, for 83 quid I might give it a go, being half the price or less than anything else worth considering... worst case scenario I have a GPS that doesn't do much, but a very expensive bike computer to measure speed...

redhanded

tenohfive wrote:

SME wrote:

You don't get turn by turn on the Macro if you're importing GPX / TCX flies from Strava - it'll give you a line / bead crumb trail to follow. You can produce routes with Ride With GPS (free account) which will give TBT notifications.

That's handy to know for me too, thanks. I'd just assumed that importing it into the GPS Root website would spit out TBT.

Can you import gpx/tcx files into Ride With GPS to end up with the same result?

If you create a route using Ride with GPS it will have TBT.

If you import a GPX/TCX file into Ride with GPS from another source, Ride with GPS won't add TBT automatically, you need to "trace" the route to add TBT then you can export the route with TBT to a GPS. There are Ride with GPS videos on YouTube showing how to do this.

I actually like the process of tracing a route before riding it as it gives a feeling for the route in advance. Also, Ride with GPS allows you to add cue points on the route that the GPS should display when you reach them ("100m to summit", "pub coming up", "5 km to cake...")

Also GPX files generally don't support TBT whereas TCX files can. Some Garmins support a feature called "turn guidance" where they guess there is an upcoming turn based upon a change in direction in the route but this is unreliable and not the same as TBT with the directions actually contained within the route file.

ugo.santalucia

redhanded wrote:

If you create a route using Ride with GPS it will have TBT.

Can you do it with the basic free software or you need to pay for the advanced options?

redhanded

ugo.santalucia wrote:

redhanded wrote:

If you create a route using Ride with GPS it will have TBT.

Can you do it with the basic free software or you need to pay for the advanced options?

You can create TBT routes with the free account.

There is a comparison of features between free and paid-for accounts here:
https://ridewithgps.com/help/compare-plans

EDIT: just to qualify this... The free Ride with GPS account allows you to create routes with TBT from scratch. However, the "Tracing" feature that allows you to import a GPX/TCX file of a ride without TBT from another source then "trace" it to add TBT needs a paid-for account.
https://ridewithgps.com/help/ride-into-a-route

tenohfive

Sounds pretty good, cheers redhanded.

Recently used my Super for the first time in anger. Didn't mess around with mapping etc - only testing the basics right now. It all worked fine, display etc was straightforward, breadcrumb trail proved briefly useful when I doubted myself over a turning I'd taken, and at the end of the ride I uploaded it (via the phone app) with no hassle (TomTom take note - my runs take repeated connections to upload.) And before I'd got through the front door the missus messaged me mocking my low cadence - apparently the GPS beacon/ride alert email works. Nice. No excuse for the kettle not to be on in future.

One quick question though: there's a discrepancy of nearly 750m distance between what Lezyne say and what made it over to Strava. The final figure on the Lezyne ride is what it was displaying on the unit IIRC, whereas Strava shows less. Which should I believe and any idea why it does it? If it makes any difference at all I am using a speed sensor which I've previously synced with the GPS.

redhanded

tenohfive wrote:

Sounds pretty good, cheers redhanded.

Recently used my Super for the first time in anger. Didn't mess around with mapping etc - only testing the basics right now. It all worked fine, display etc was straightforward, breadcrumb trail proved briefly useful when I doubted myself over a turning I'd taken, and at the end of the ride I uploaded it (via the phone app) with no hassle (TomTom take note - my runs take repeated connections to upload.) And before I'd got through the front door the missus messaged me mocking my low cadence - apparently the GPS beacon/ride alert email works. Nice. No excuse for the kettle not to be on in future.

One quick question though: there's a discrepancy of nearly 750m distance between what Lezyne say and what made it over to Strava. The final figure on the Lezyne ride is what it was displaying on the unit IIRC, whereas Strava shows less. Which should I believe and any idea why it does it? If it makes any difference at all I am using a speed sensor which I've previously synced with the GPS.

What is 750m as a percentage of the overall route length? If it is under a few percent then I don't think it is worth worrying about.

Theoretically, the distance measurement based upon the speed sensor should be more accurate than GPS readings provided the wheel circumference is correct. Some GPSes default to using the speed sensor for speed and distance measurements rather than GPS readings if there is a speed sensor present but I don't know what Lezyne's approach is.

A distance calculation based upon GPS readings is the sum of lots of smaller readings and there can be an accumulation of errors as you can see for yourself when viewing a ride as sometimes the GPS trace wanders all over the road or strays into buildings when there may be difficulty receiving a GPS signal near buildings or under tree cover.

I stand to be corrected about this, but I think Strava may use the GPS data hence the difference between distances based upon GPS readings and speed sensor readings.

pastryboy

I don't think there's anything around that does the lot for a reasonable price. I too wouldn't like to mess around with a smartphone. Personally I bit the bullet, I sat and watched amazon warehouse deals for a bit, then managed to grab an Edge 1000 for £251. Still way more than I wanted to pay but sold a 500 (awful navigation) to pay towards it.

The navigation is excellent (same as the touring) It only falls short if you're somewhere like central London where it struggles with the density of the data on the map and lags badly if you want to scroll. If I was riding for a prolonged period I'd use a power bank.

ugo.santalucia

Think I am still confused about what I need, so I have bought a second hand Edge 200 for 30 quid on Ebay to see if breadcrumbs is fine for me or I need the full monty.

In the days it was a well reviewed device and it might well be all the GPS I ever need... or maybe not, in which case I will look at more luxurious units