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Would you consider taking PEDs to improve your cycling performance?

BlondBlond Posts: 36
edited January 2017 in Road general
We see pros taking many over the counter PEDs as TUE to increase their performance such as synthetic corticosteroid and salbutamol (which were taken by Wiggina I believe) and prednisolone (which is basically steroids, taken by Froome couple years ago). Of course these guys are top riders and thus with pressure from sponsors etc to win, it's comprehensible that they take them.

Would you though consider such drugs given they were safe?
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  • svettysvetty Posts: 1,904
    There's a reason coffee is popular with cyclists so I would say that many would say yes :)
    FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D
  • diamonddogdiamonddog Posts: 3,402
    Salbutamol is not a PED as it has no effect on a healthy pair of lungs and the performance enhancing aspects of prednisolone at a normal dosage are IME of them still questionable. Just bear in mind asthmatics need these drugs just to carry on living a normal life.
  • diamonddog wrote:
    Salbutamol is not a PED as it has no effect on a healthy pair of lungs and the performance enhancing aspects of prednisolone at a normal dosage are IME of them still questionable. Just bear in mind asthmatics need these drugs just to carry on living a normal life.

    Thats not what the OP is asking.
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • diamonddogdiamonddog Posts: 3,402
    OP is giving these as examples of PED's when they are not over the counter medication and are not PED's.
    The second part of my reply gives an answer in part to the question and most asthmatics don't have an option.
  • smoggystevesmoggysteve Posts: 2,909
    Can I just relabel this thread?

    WHO HERE IS PREPARED TO CHEAT?
  • diamonddogdiamonddog Posts: 3,402
    Nice one :)
  • GromsonGromson Posts: 100
    Can I just relabel this thread?

    WHO HERE IS PREPARED TO CHEAT?

    I wouldn't cheat but I have used my Performance Enhancing Wallet many times to outspend the young'uns and buy many things aero/lighter/better/faster/nicer to grab any and every micro-advantage I can. Every little helps.
  • smoggystevesmoggysteve Posts: 2,909
    Gromson wrote:
    Can I just relabel this thread?

    WHO HERE IS PREPARED TO CHEAT?

    I wouldn't cheat but I have used my Performance Enhancing Wallet many times to outspend the young'uns and buy many things aero/lighter/better/faster/nicer to grab any and every micro-advantage I can. Every little helps.

    That only works up until a teenager passes you on a Brompton.

    Of course a teenager wouldn't be seen riding a Brompton unless he just nicked it for drugs money, then he is on a different PED altogether.
  • sungodsungod Posts: 13,361
    b. 1998 aicmfp
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • The answer is easy when it comes to things explicitly illegal like duping doctors into giving you illegal drugs for sport. NO.

    But the answer is different when it comes to other "ehancements" that are not YET against the rules, like caffeine, beetroot, or creatine.

    Drink some coffee or espesso before a ride or before hitting the weights in the gym? Tried beetroot concentrate for the whole nitrate/nitrite whatever thing? Ever been more of a gym rat instead of a cycling person and used creatine to get more of "the look"? Maybe some creatine in off season while hitting the heavy squats, presses, dead lifts?
  • andcpandcp Posts: 645
    sungod wrote:
    b. 1998 aicmfp
    sungod nails it.
    "It must be true, it's on the internet" - Winston Churchill
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,202
    sungod wrote:
    b. 1998 aicmfp

    busted..
  • Can I just relabel this thread?

    WHO HERE IS PREPARED TO CHEAT?

    Who are you cheating if you aren't competing?
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • lyn1lyn1 Posts: 261
    Blond wrote:
    We see pros taking many over the counter PEDs as TUE to increase their performance such as synthetic corticosteroid and salbutamol (which were taken by Wiggina I believe) and prednisolone (which is basically steroids, taken by Froome couple years ago). Of course these guys are top riders and thus with pressure from sponsors etc to win, it's comprehensible that they take them.

    Would you though consider such drugs given they were safe?

    As a general point, your original premise, that presumably gave rise to your question, is incorrect. There is very little scope to abuse TUE under the current procedure. Are you aware that of the several thousand riders who may apply for and require a TUE that only THIRTEEN were granted during 2015? (The last year shown on UCI site). The impression given in some media and on some forums, that these are currently given out like confetti, is a myth. We do not know whether there is abuse currently, but if there is, it is very small numbers
  • lyn1 wrote:
    Blond wrote:
    We see pros taking many over the counter PEDs as TUE to increase their performance such as synthetic corticosteroid and salbutamol (which were taken by Wiggina I believe) and prednisolone (which is basically steroids, taken by Froome couple years ago). Of course these guys are top riders and thus with pressure from sponsors etc to win, it's comprehensible that they take them.

    Would you though consider such drugs given they were safe?

    As a general point, your original premise, that presumably gave rise to your question, is incorrect. There is very little scope to abuse TUE under the current procedure. Are you aware that of the several thousand riders who may apply for and require a TUE that only THIRTEEN were granted during 2015? (The last year shown on UCI site). The impression given in some media and on some forums, that these are currently given out like confetti, is a myth. We do not know whether there is abuse currently, but if there is, it is very small numbers

    What about out of competition use?
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • shortfallshortfall Posts: 3,109
    Can I just relabel this thread?

    WHO HERE IS PREPARED TO CHEAT?

    Who are you cheating if you aren't competing?

    Yourself? Your mates? Every guy you pass who can't stay on your wheel but could if you weren't juiced? Ditto everyone in your club if you're a member. Maybe if you put a label on your Jersey stating "I Take Drugs In Order To Go This Fast" it would remove any doubt? At least the you'd be being totally honest.
  • Mad_MalxMad_Malx Posts: 4,166
    sungod wrote:
    b. 1998 aicmfp

    At least I've learned a new acronym from this thread.
  • lyn1lyn1 Posts: 261
    edited January 2017
    lyn1 wrote:
    Blond wrote:
    We see pros taking many over the counter PEDs as TUE to increase their performance such as synthetic corticosteroid and salbutamol (which were taken by Wiggina I believe) and prednisolone (which is basically steroids, taken by Froome couple years ago). Of course these guys are top riders and thus with pressure from sponsors etc to win, it's comprehensible that they take them.

    Would you though consider such drugs given they were safe?

    As a general point, your original premise, that presumably gave rise to your question, is incorrect. There is very little scope to abuse TUE under the current procedure. Are you aware that of the several thousand riders who may apply for and require a TUE that only THIRTEEN were granted during 2015? (The last year shown on UCI site). The impression given in some media and on some forums, that these are currently given out like confetti, is a myth. We do not know whether there is abuse currently, but if there is, it is very small numbers

    What about out of competition use?

    Irrespective of when you need the TUE, according to the UCI site, you should apply as soon as the need arises. For substances prohibited in-competition only, the rider should apply at least 30 days before his/her next competition, unless exceptional or true emergencies exist.

    Edit: or did you mean the number? There is no split. 13 is the total for in and out.
  • smoggystevesmoggysteve Posts: 2,909
    Can I just relabel this thread?

    WHO HERE IS PREPARED TO CHEAT?

    Who are you cheating if you aren't competing?

    If you aren't then why would you spend money on going faster? on Strava?

    Quite why anyone would risk their health to take something just to go faster for the sake of it seems quite bizarre.
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,739
    If I took Viagra, I could ride harder and I wouldn't need a kickstand.

    I already take lots of drugs. Unfortunately, they aren't performance enhancing. So I would need to take a whole lot more to counter the effects so that I could be on a 'level playing field'... with Ballysmate.
    I also use a Corcosteroid cream. I've have rubbed it on my censored for 6 months solid with no bloody effect whatsoever.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    sungod wrote:
    b. 1998 aicmfp

    Yep, even replied to themselves elsewhere.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • fat daddyfat daddy Posts: 2,605
    shortfall wrote:
    [Yourself? Your mates? Every guy you pass who can't stay on your wheel but could if you weren't juiced? .


    its a hard one, because lots of stuff can give you an advantage .. ie caffine, so whas the difference between loosing the guy on your wheel because you had 200mg of caffeine in your system and he didn't .. compared to you having drunk cough mixture and he didn't ? ... the only difference is that the competing sports body has deemed one of them illegal

    but you are not competing in sport ?

    is it also cheating to have a bike that weights 6.2kg .... that's illegal in races and without it you might not have accelerated away from the guy on the 8kg bike behind you


    ultimately I guess I would if it was cheap enough ....... thinking about it if they banned caffeine for competing sports use, I certainly wouldn't stop taking it as an enhancing supplement before workouts and rides
  • I'd consider taking them if they would shift my perpetual cold/flu/hearing loss
    My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
    https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
    Facebook? No. Just say no.
  • shortfallshortfall Posts: 3,109
    fat daddy wrote:
    shortfall wrote:
    [Yourself? Your mates? Every guy you pass who can't stay on your wheel but could if you weren't juiced? .


    its a hard one, because lots of stuff can give you an advantage .. ie caffine, so whas the difference between loosing the guy on your wheel because you had 200mg of caffeine in your system and he didn't .. compared to you having drunk cough mixture and he didn't ? ... the only difference is that the competing sports body has deemed one of them illegal

    but you are not competing in sport ?

    is it also cheating to have a bike that weights 6.2kg .... that's illegal in races and without it you might not have accelerated away from the guy on the 8kg bike behind you


    ultimately I guess I would if it was cheap enough ....... thinking about it if they banned caffeine for competing sports use, I certainly wouldn't stop taking it as an enhancing supplement before workouts and rides

    Well setting aside the obvious fact that sipping a couple of espressos is in no way comparable to the effects given by even the mildest of PEDs, and setting aside also the moral and ethical questions about taking drugs and their long term effects on health and relationships, what exactly is the point of taking them if you're NOT racing? It won't make your cycling any easier, you'll still hurt when you're going up a big climb or doing g a maximum effort sprint, and if you don't tell your mates that you're doing it then it'll eat you up inside that you're only better than them due to chemicals and not through your own efforts. If you do make them aware that you're on something then the chances are they'll think you're an censored . Most of us have probably toyed with the idea of juicing at one time or another to see if it really does make as much of a difference as people say it does, but is it worth it so much to you to scratch that itch with all the associated downsides? I remember reading Kimmage's Rough Ride and how he described the massive performance boost he got from taking a fraction of the dose of amphetamines that his peers were on. So yes they work, and God alone knows how much of a boost modern drugs give you compared to the bit of speed he took. But it's worth remember the agonies he went through afterwards, the disillusionment and self loathing that almost destroyed his love for cycling.
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,123
    No. But then again, I don't compete. Not even against myself. Nor do I constantly update social media with details of what I'm doing / buying / eating. Things like Strava don't interest me. I download ride stats from my garmin, but at my age I'm getting slower, not quicker. I'm usually more interested in seeing what the temperature was!

    Maybe if I was insecure and felt the need to constantly compare myself to others I might be tempted by the promise of improved cycling performance without having to do as much gruelling training...

    If on the other hand I was a competitive athlete, I'd want to know that I'd won or lost fairly, because of my own fitness, stamina, riding skill and so on. I'd rather come last than cheat.

    As a biologist though, I'd be curious to see what kind of difference a blood transfusion or a course of EPO would make to my cycling. At nearly 60, would it give me a glimpse of what it was like as an 18 year old??
  • HinaultscrapcousinHinaultscrapcousin Posts: 647
    edited January 2017
    lyn1 wrote:
    Blond wrote:
    We see pros taking many over the counter PEDs as TUE to increase their performance such as synthetic corticosteroid and salbutamol (which were taken by Wiggina I believe) and prednisolone (which is basically steroids, taken by Froome couple years ago). Of course these guys are top riders and thus with pressure from sponsors etc to win, it's comprehensible that they take them.

    Would you though consider such drugs given they were safe?

    As a general point, your original premise, that presumably gave rise to your question, is incorrect. There is very little scope to abuse TUE under the current procedure. Are you aware that of the several thousand riders who may apply for and require a TUE that only THIRTEEN were granted during 2015? (The last year shown on UCI site). The impression given in some media and on some forums, that these are currently given out like confetti, is a myth. We do not know whether there is abuse currently, but if there is, it is very small numbers

    Quoting those numbers is massively deceptive. That is the number of TUEs granted by the UCI, but the UCI automatically recognises TUEs granted by the following NADOs:

    NADO of the French Community of Belgium
    Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport
    Agence Française de lutte contre le dopage
    Agencia Española de Protección de la Salud en el Deporte
    Antidoping Switzerland
    Antidoping Denmark
    NADO Vlaanderen
    National Anti-Doping Agency Austria
    Anti-Doping Norway
    UK Anti-Doping
    South African Institute for Drug-Free Sport Science Institute
    United States Anti-Doping Agency
    Swedish Sports Confederation
    Nationale Anti Doping Agentur Deutschland
  • shortfallshortfall Posts: 3,109
    keef66 wrote:
    No. But then again, I don't compete. Not even against myself. Nor do I constantly update social media with details of what I'm doing / buying / eating. Things like Strava don't interest me. I download ride stats from my garmin, but at my age I'm getting slower, not quicker. I'm usually more interested in seeing what the temperature was!

    Maybe if I was insecure and felt the need to constantly compare myself to others I might be tempted by the promise of improved cycling performance without having to do as much gruelling training...

    If on the other hand I was a competitive athlete, I'd want to know that I'd won or lost fairly, because of my own fitness, stamina, riding skill and so on. I'd rather come last than cheat.

    As a biologist though, I'd be curious to see what kind of difference a blood transfusion or a course of EPO would make to my cycling. At nearly 60, would it give me a glimpse of what it was like as an 18 year old??

    https://youtu.be/04ck8LwApd4

    He did it so you don't have to, and he was only micro dosing. It's a BBC Panorama doc. Well worth a watch.
  • Can I just relabel this thread?

    WHO HERE IS PREPARED TO CHEAT?

    Who are you cheating if you aren't competing?

    If you aren't then why would you spend money on going faster? on Strava?

    Quite why anyone would risk their health to take something just to go faster for the sake of it seems quite bizarre.

    Perhaps they like going fast.

    I don't see it as any more bizarre than taking PEDs to do better in any amateur race.
  • fat daddyfat daddy Posts: 2,605
    shortfall wrote:
    Well setting aside the obvious fact that sipping a couple of espressos is in no way comparable to the effects given by even the mildest of PEDs,


    that's not quite true though is it .... in the example the OP gave as over counter PEDs "synthetic corticosteroid and salbutamol" found in cough mixtures. the effects of Caffine on exersize are a lot more ... drinking cough mixture doesn't see you climb the alps some 10% quicker ..... it gives a better response to pain/breathing/blood oxygen levels right at the physical limit of what your body is capable of.

    so why use them if not competing ?

    If it allows you to push harder and longer during training then your body will improve quicker .... so when you stop taking them, even though your performance will drop in relation, it will still be stronger than it would have been if you hadn't been on them

    basically it could be used to increase the intensity of training .... like caffine


    as for anabolics .... no way I am screwing with my hormones even cycling and coming off with a decent PCT etc is a danger too far in my books
  • shortfallshortfall Posts: 3,109
    fat daddy wrote:
    shortfall wrote:
    Well setting aside the obvious fact that sipping a couple of espressos is in no way comparable to the effects given by even the mildest of PEDs,


    that's not quite true though is it .... in the example the OP gave as over counter PEDs "synthetic corticosteroid and salbutamol" found in cough mixtures. the effects of Caffine on exersize are a lot more ... drinking cough mixture doesn't see you climb the alps some 10% quicker ..... it gives a better response to pain/breathing/blood oxygen levels right at the physical limit of what your body is capable of.

    so why use them if not competing ?

    If it allows you to push harder and longer during training then your body will improve quicker .... so when you stop taking them, even though your performance will drop in relation, it will still be stronger than it would have been if you hadn't been on them

    basically it could be used to increase the intensity of training .... like caffine


    as for anabolics .... no way I am screwing with my hormones even cycling and coming off with a decent PCT etc is a danger too far in my books

    I think this is semantics. If you knowingly take a product with the intention of artificially boosting your own performance then to my mind you've crossed a line. We can cloud the issue with false comparisons like some I've heard that using energy gels rather than eating fig rolls is the same as doping, or that buying a lighter bike than your mates is cheating, or pretending that taking some over the counter medicines that are banned in competition isn't quite as bad as taking X Y or Z. But the bottom line is this. It's your body, your health, your moral code and whether you can look at yourself in the mirror.
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