British Enduro Series

rockmonkeysc

An interesting read here. Shame to see the series gone but after reading the interview it's understandable

http://wideopenmag.co.uk/2017/01/exclus ... uro-series

The Rookie

Interesting they were paying marshalls, I used to marshall at a lot of motorpsort events and never got a penny, you do it for the craik, because you get a good view (but no photos).

Hinaultscrapcousin

I think moving to the suggested model of incorporating a selection on the regional races into a national series would be the best way to do it. Either that do it like road racing where clubs organise the races and the national series is built out of that (I appreciate that there are no where near as many clubs organising Enduro races as there are road clubs organising races).

poah

I'm not surprised it failed.

rockmonkeysc

The Rookie wrote:

Interesting they were paying marshalls, I used to marshall at a lot of motorpsort events and never got a penny, you do it for the craik, because you get a good view (but no photos).

I've marshalled at a few DH races. Always been paid and got hot food and coffee.
Naked Racing (mini DH & UK 4X) really look after their marshalls and so do BDS / BES.
I don't think incorporating a national series in to regional races would work. Nationals need to be technically tough to prepare riders for international events and they also need to be two day events. Not sure it's a good idea having elites fighting for a national title on the same tracks as novices in a sport category. Practice would be a disaster with that mix of ability all out together.

The Rookie

Sounds like that' could be part of the issue, Motorsport rarely has an issue attracting marshals for free, so why won't people Marshall for free at MTB events?

The interview is pretty good and I get why he wants national events to be a genuine stepping stone to world events, otherwise we are effectively giving up on ever getting a world class competitor.

rockmonkeysc

Downhill and enduro marshalls often have to be out on a hill side in miserable weather for 8-10 hours, two days in a row. For enduro they have to walk several miles to get to the stages.

The Rookie

I've marshalled on Welsh Hillsides in late November many times, dual run stages of three hours each with a circa 2 hour gap, starting 2.5 hours before first car.....you're not selling it as anything different really! I will concede we usually have the car within 1/2 mile, but we carry in everything we need for the whole day including flasks and stoves.

Angus Young

The Rookie wrote:

Sounds like that' could be part of the issue, Motorsport rarely has an issue attracting marshals for free, so why won't people Marshall for free at MTB events?

If you can't afford to pay your people your business model doesn't work. Or you're greedy.

The Rookie

In rallying hundreds of marshals give there time willingly for the good of the sport, sounds like a better business model to me!

I've marshalled at club, national and international level, on some events we got an expence contribution for specific reasons but usually we covered all our own costs and gave our time willingly for free.

I've also met (not usually under the best circumstances) some of the biggest names in the sport.

Angus Young

The Rookie wrote:

In rallying hundreds of marshals give there time willingly for the good of the sport, sounds like a better business model to me!

I've marshalled at club, national and international level, on some events we got an expence contribution for specific reasons but usually we covered all our own costs and gave our time willingly for free.

I've also met (not usually under the best circumstances) some of the biggest names in the sport.

When people at the top make a ton of money there's no reason not to pay the people at the bottom.

The Rookie

Well perhaps you should consider where this thread started....no series.

rockmonkeysc

I think the difference between mountain biking and motorpsort is that mountain biking attracts very, very few spectators. A lot of motorpsort marshalls started out as regular spectators. Downhill and enduro marshalls are usually mates of riders persuaded to come along by the promise of a few quid and a bacon sarnie.

Briggo

Why are you focusing on something that had very little in regards to the reasons for closure.

Rider participation was low which effects marketing drive, so they pull funding and so on.

So it's about trying to understand why was rider participation low? Too elite, too costly? Can you get to the EWS without doing the national races that did exist?

rockmonkeysc

I think participation was low due to the amount of competition. There's too many enduro race series for the amount of riders.
BES was the most expensive series but it's two day races

Angus Young

RockmonkeySC wrote:

BES was the most expensive series...

How much?

poah

Angus Young wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

BES was the most expensive series...

How much?

£75

Angus Young

POAH wrote:

Angus Young wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

BES was the most expensive series...

How much?

£75

Is that for one race or a season?

cooldad

One race.

rockmonkeysc

I don't think that's bad value for a two day race, run to a professional standard with properly prepped stages (they put in a good few days work before a race). They had a round on my local trails last year and did loads of work re-building worn out features and putting in links between trail sections. Plus there's prize money and press coverage (important for sponsored riders).
It's £35 ish for a single day downhill race at Forest of Dean which is well run but not up to BES standards.

Angus Young

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I don't think that's bad value for a two day race, run to a professional standard with properly prepped stages (they put in a good few days work before a race). They had a round on my local trails last year and did loads of work re-building worn out features and putting in links between trail sections. Plus there's prize money and press coverage (important for sponsored riders).
It's £35 ish for a single day downhill race at Forest of Dean which is well run but not up to BES standards.

Doesn't sound that bad to me, either. Especially If you're a serious rider working your way up to something bigger.

Briggo

Angus Young wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I don't think that's bad value for a two day race, run to a professional standard with properly prepped stages (they put in a good few days work before a race). They had a round on my local trails last year and did loads of work re-building worn out features and putting in links between trail sections. Plus there's prize money and press coverage (important for sponsored riders).
It's £35 ish for a single day downhill race at Forest of Dean which is well run but not up to BES standards.

Doesn't sound that bad to me, either. Especially If you're a serious rider working your way up to something bigger.

Isn't that the problem though, theres a lack of individuals fitting that criteria - wanting to move up to the next level such as EWS? The market for grass roots/have some fun and not taking it as serious is where the volume is, which is why Ard Rock and the regional enduro series do so well.

rockmonkeysc

But without a series like this there is now no way for British racers to step up to the highest level unless they can afford to go and race in Europe.
The British Downhill Series is more expensive and the entire series is generally sold out by mid February.

poah

They can still qualify for the EWS via the Kinlochleven Enduro and there is plenty of trails for riders to train on in the UK.

Briggo

RockmonkeySC wrote:

But without a series like this there is now no way for British racers to step up to the highest level unless they can afford to go and race in Europe.
The British Downhill Series is more expensive and the entire series is generally sold out by mid February.

Perhaps thats due to the fact DH has been around much longer, I don't know.

The demand isn't there for the BES as last year he lost a lot of money, it's a shame as I do believe it'd be a good avenue to allow more people to move towards EWS but the British do have plenty of riders in the EWS so we must be doing something right.

rockmonkeysc

There won't be as many British riders in EWS in the future without a national series.

poah

yes there will, there are loads of technical, natural trails around peebles and inners so at least the scots will be represented :P

rockmonkeysc

There's no shortage of tech trails down here in the south west. We've got Triscombe and loads of really tech stuff on Exmoor. There's also south Wales and the Lake District.
How do the riders prove themselves at a national level to get in to international racing?
No sponsor is going to take a rider from regional level races straight to international and EWS won't give entries to riders without excellent national results.

Briggo

RockmonkeySC wrote:

There won't be as many British riders in EWS in the future without a national series.

Did all of the British riders this year in the EWS race in the BES event(s) last year?

rockmonkeysc

Briggo wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

There won't be as many British riders in EWS in the future without a national series.

Did all of the British riders this year in the EWS race in the BES event(s) last year?

No, some raced EWS the previous year. Some raced national series in other countries. Some raced BES. Some have raced international downhill and are factory team riders.
BES wasn't the only way in to EWS but unless you've either got the cash to race abroad or have factory backing it's very difficult to get an entry.

poah

thats what the qualifying events are for.