Cervelo R3

cmhill79

Hi All,
Looking at the Cervelo R3 with disk brakes and 28mm tyres. Have recently changed my 23mm tyres to 25mm and are pleased with the added comfort and grip and for a whole host of reasons just aren't feeling as safe on the bike as I used to so are drawn to the 28's and disk brakes. I had a ride on a mates and allowing for the fact it wasn't a perfect fit was happy with the comfort and especially braking. Rode down a seriously steep hill in the wet recently and had zero confidence in the rim brakes.
My only concern is that for the money you are paying it doesn't exactly look "special". Are there any brands offering something similar to compare with?
Thanks

sloppyschleckonds

Canyon, Rose

mrb123

Genesis Zero disc. Or maybe something titanium, Kinesis Gf Ti disc for example.

964cup

Every brand offers something to compare with it; endurance bikes with discs and clearance for larger tyres are the new black. Canyon, Giant, Rose, Focus, Genesis, Specialized, Trek etc etc etc. I'm very fond of Cervelos (I have 3) so I suppose if you want to buy a cross bike, you could do worse.

Personally my feeling is that if you've lost confidence in rim brakes you need to think about changing your pads, not your bike. The contact patch on a pair of bicycle tyres is collectively about the size of your thumb - changing to discs just makes it easier to lock up; it won't slow you down any faster than properly set-up rim brakes.

shortfall

964Cup wrote:

Every brand offers something to compare with it; endurance bikes with discs and clearance for larger tyres are the new black. Canyon, Giant, Rose, Focus, Genesis, Specialized, Trek etc etc etc. I'm very fond of Cervelos (I have 3) so I suppose if you want to buy a cross bike, you could do worse.

Personally my feeling is that if you've lost confidence in rim brakes you need to think about changing your pads, not your bike. The contact patch on a pair of bicycle tyres is collectively about the size of your thumb - changing to discs just makes it easier to lock up; it won't slow you down any faster than properly set-up rim brakes.

I disagree. I'm not a proponent of discs on road bikes but the fact is that in the wet discs still work pretty well but rim brakes not so much. Personally I adjust my speeds accordingly but if the OP values consistent all weather braking above other considerations then maybe discs are the way to go for him? I would agree that maybe a change of pads in the first instance is worth a go though as it's only a few quid to try.

smoggysteve

I don't want this to descend into another rim vs disc thread but where in the wet a disc will make the wheel from spinning, take into consideration (cos many don't) that on a wet greasy road the tyre will just slide and your disc just lock up and you skid. Braking is a skill and just assuming you have better brakes doesn't not automatically mean you will stop in a controlled manner

shortfall

SmoggySteve wrote:

I don't want this to descend into another rim vs disc thread but where in the wet a disc will make the wheel from spinning, take into consideration (cos many don't) that on a wet greasy road the tyre will just slide and your disc just lock up and you skid. Braking is a skill and just assuming you have better brakes doesn't not automatically mean you will stop in a controlled manner

I agree with you up to a point actually and people often forget that the tiny rubber contact patch is the limiting factor and not the brake system itself. That being said though, discs brakes offer tremendous feel even in the wet.

hambini

Shortfall wrote:

SmoggySteve wrote:

I don't want this to descend into another rim vs disc thread but where in the wet a disc will make the wheel from spinning, take into consideration (cos many don't) that on a wet greasy road the tyre will just slide and your disc just lock up and you skid. Braking is a skill and just assuming you have better brakes doesn't not automatically mean you will stop in a controlled manner

I agree with you up to a point actually and people often forget that the tiny rubber contact patch is the limiting factor and not the brake system itself. That being said though, discs brakes offer tremendous feel even in the wet.

I'd agree apart from in practical terms, when it's wet and I go for the brakes. There is a big delay between the pulling of the brakes and the water coming off the rim before it "bites". I've never had disc brakes so I can't comment but reading reviews on line, people don't seem to have this problem.

____________
Hambini Youtube Channel Bikes and Engineering

smoggysteve

If you brake in time with rim brakes you brake to clear the rim, release and brake again. This is split second with the speed of the wheel the rim can be cleared of water in less than a second. I'm not denying discs are better are slowing a wheels momentum just in practical terms a decent rim brake pad can do a very good job. It's not that all of a sudden rim brakes are rubbish. In fact they are better than ever. I do sometimes wonder how many people who rave about discs being revolutionary for them are ever failed to stop on rim brakes or ever found themselves going so fast that a rim wouldn't have stopped them. you want em but em but please don't go on about how suddenly rim brakes are rubbish cos plenty of people manage on the just fine.

FitzM

964Cup wrote:

Every brand offers something to compare with it; endurance bikes with discs and clearance for larger tyres are the new black. Canyon, Giant, Rose, Focus, Genesis, Specialized, Trek etc etc etc. I'm very fond of Cervelos (I have 3) so I suppose if you want to buy a cross bike, you could do worse.

Personally my feeling is that if you've lost confidence in rim brakes you need to think about changing your pads, not your bike. The contact patch on a pair of bicycle tyres is collectively about the size of your thumb - changing to discs just makes it easier to lock up; it won't slow you down any faster than properly set-up rim brakes.

Like the OP I'm considering my 1st disc road bike. Like you I'm a fan of Cervelo but I only have two of them. The R3 is one of the bikes I'm considering. But first for a fraction of the cost maybe I should try some "top of the range" rim pads. Can you offer any suggestions?

lincolndave

I use these in the winter, they are a lot better than the normal brake blocks/pads
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/swissstop-flash ... rake-pads/

shortfall

SmoggySteve wrote:

If you brake in time with rim brakes you brake to clear the rim, release and brake again. This is split second with the speed of the wheel the rim can be cleared of water in less than a second. I'm not denying discs are better are slowing a wheels momentum just in practical terms a decent rim brake pad can do a very good job. It's not that all of a sudden rim brakes are rubbish. In fact they are better than ever. I do sometimes wonder how many people who rave about discs being revolutionary for them are ever failed to stop on rim brakes or ever found themselves going so fast that a rim wouldn't have stopped them. you want em but em but please don't go on about how suddenly rim brakes are rubbish cos plenty of people manage on the just fine.

I'm certainly not saying rim brakes are rubbish, quite the contrary, just that in certain conditions discs offer an advantage. The OP wants consistent braking in all weathers and all things being equal then disc brakes are better in this regard than rim brakes. Like I said, in the wet I adjust my speeds accordingly because I ride on slick 25mm rubber that doesn't like being leant over much and can't really exploit the improved stopping power on offer, but the OP has to weigh up on a cost benefit basis whether the extra cost is worth it to him. For me it isn't but each to their own.

tim_wand

I ve got a kinesis GF TI V3 disc. Changed from a cannondale evo six which had carbon tubs and scary braking in the wet.
The only time I miss the Cannondale is when ascending. The times I appreciate the Kinesis is when descending and most other times other than climbs.

I was never the greatest climber ( always made up for it by being a Rob Hayles style descender ) , but I reckon the Kinesis is 2kg plus heavier than my Evo Six .

I went for an economy build to begin with. Kinesis CX wheelset and TRP Spyre mech brakes, With full SKS chromoplastic gaurds. great build for winter.

I do find myself wondering now though if I d have been better off with A R3 disc as I reckon my bikes weight all up is over 9KG.

I m Hoping to drop some Hunt Carbon Aero rims and Shimano Hydraulic brakes around Easter time. Hoping that the upgrades and having toughed out the whole of Winter on a heavy bike will bring back some Climbing MoJo.

Otherwise it rides like a dream.

964cup

FitzM wrote:

Like the OP I'm considering my 1st disc road bike. Like you I'm a fan of Cervelo but I only have two of them. The R3 is one of the bikes I'm considering. But first for a fraction of the cost maybe I should try some "top of the range" rim pads. Can you offer any suggestions?

Swissstop Blue (BXP). Really very good in the wet. Alloy rims only, obviously.

There's no good answer to the poor performance of carbon rims in the wet. Like most people I use Swisstop Flash Pro Black Prince, which at least mean that you can stop, but you do need to adjust your riding style, and to expect a double application - once to clear the rims and once to stop. The answer, of course, is not to use carbon rims in winter, so I don't. Doesn't mean I'm not caught in the rain - e.g. that horrifically wet Ride London - but it minimises the problem. Evidently I didn't die on that RLS either, and that was ridden on carbon tubulars with Black Prince pads.

Ultimately Exalith (Mavic) will give you the best wet weather rim braking, but that obviously means new wheels.

For me the problem with discs is firstly weight - not only are the wheels intrinsically heavier at the hub, but also the rims are heavier (to deal with the stress on the spokes) and of course the whole braking system weighs much more; secondly, maintenance - they're harder to adjust at the roadside, harder to work on full stop if hydraulic, and more sensitive to wheel alignment. I also find it hard to get a decent contact point (based on TRP Hy/RD on my cross bike and Magura MTS on my hybrid and mountain bikes). I'm waiting three more years at least for bicycle disc brake systems to mature, then I'll have another look. But to be honest I can lock up my vintage bike, which runs Campag Deltas, in the wet - so I don't see discs conferring a massive advantage for road riding.

ryan_w-2

I have a CAAD12 Disc and went 76kph today down a wet and windy road... I stopped at the bottom with ease.

I have done the same on my rim brake S5 but just had to break a little sooner at the bottom.

Discs do not make a huge difference, not riding like a bellend does!