Is it time to forgive Lance Armstrong?

danieljwaterhouse
danieljwaterhouse Posts: 13
edited January 2017 in Road general
Rightly he was lambasted for his doping, he destroyed what little faith was left in the sport. He was just doing what everyone else was doing to be competitive.

Yet he did raise millions for livestrong, he gave hope and faith to millions of cancer sufferers.

He's done what he should have done years ago, admittedly he was left with no choice, but now surely it's time he's allowed to live without being persecuted?
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Comments

  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    danieljwaterhouse wrote:
    but now surely it's time he's allowed to live without being persecuted?

    I'm not persecuting him. Apparently, Jimmy Savile raised a lot of money for charity too. I know that's a bit different, but the point I'm making is that the charity thing is a complete non sequitur..
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,230
    No-one's stopping him living his life, he just can't compete and might have to pay back money he obtained fraudulently.
  • niallmo
    niallmo Posts: 103
    No.
  • Matthewfalle
    Matthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    No.

    Reference persecution, I'm not persecuting and neither is anyone I know - we just don't like the lying cheating bullying shytbag.

    I think you have mistaken persecuting with prosecuting which is what the American legal system is doing because he is a frauding lying cheating bullying shytbag (allegedly).
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • Devastazione2
    Devastazione2 Posts: 98
    No. Why ? Is long gone and forgotten and he's pretty much OJ Simpson'd at this time anyway.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,865
    If you'd like some bedtime reading, and you haven't stumbled on it, there are just 337 pages of Lance debate here: viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=12874120&hilit=lance
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,230
    Oh, and he might like to accept that the ban isn't because Travis Tygart " is a megalomaniac and loves the spotlight". Or because "Tygart was out to make himself famous".
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    No because he keeps posting on here as b1998
  • secretsqirrel
    secretsqirrel Posts: 1,748
    danieljwaterhouse wrote:
    Rightly he was lambasted for his doping, he destroyed what little faith was left in the sport. He was just doing what everyone else was doing to be competitive.

    If it was just the doping I might agree with you, but actually 'everyone else' was not bullying, libelling and fraudulent. This is was set him apart. Anyway who should be dishing out the forgiveness. I'm not qualified.
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    SecretSqirrel wrote:
    danieljwaterhouse wrote:
    Rightly he was lambasted for his doping, he destroyed what little faith was left in the sport. He was just doing what everyone else was doing to be competitive.

    If it was just the doping I might agree with you, but actually 'everyone else' was not bullying, libelling and fraudulent. This is was set him apart. Anyway who should be dishing out the forgiveness. I'm not qualified.

    LA was punished way beyond any other doping TDF winner because he made the UCI etc look stupid and ineffective.

    as far as i'm aware, fraud, false libel Slander etc are all covered under civil or criminal law, its not for sporting authorities to hand out punishments for these offences, with no trial in front of a judge and/or jury.

    LA cheated at sport, thats all, people need to have a sense of perspective, OJ murdered a woman and Saville raped and abused children and the disabled, using his charitable works to get close to more victims.

    LA did have cancer and did raise millions for the survivors, he did this independently of his cycling career, this is money that has all but dried up, so who really has been punished here?
  • Brakeless
    Brakeless Posts: 865
    Armstrong also used his 'charitable' work to hide behind. 'Don't try and find bad in me, look at all the good I do'
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    The OP is another 'sleeper'. Two posts in 2014, and now this. If I worked for MI5, I'd be pushing the big red 'panic' button about now...
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,865
    Where's dennism?
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    briantrumpet wrote:
    Where's dennism?

    Undergoing extraordinary rendition, hopefully...
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,865
    Webboo wrote:
    No because he keeps posting on here as b1998
    Or maybe that was Wiggins, trying to fill up his spare time...
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • danieljwaterhouse
    danieljwaterhouse Posts: 13
    Imposter wrote:
    The OP is another 'sleeper'. Two posts in 2014, and now this. If I worked for MI5, I'd be pushing the big red 'panic' button about now...

    A sleeper? If I knew what that meant I'd be offended.

    Also I doubt MI5 would take a 'sleeper' that uses his own name to post in a cycling forum too seriously.

    But by all means push your big red button to alert the authorities NOW!
  • danieljwaterhouse
    danieljwaterhouse Posts: 13
    I totally agree with Mamba, perspective is needed.

    LA is being hunted because the UCI will be implicated in the fallout. It's easier to discredit LA publicly to disarm what is about to fall upon them when LA has his day in court.

    Do you not think a highly organised doper and bully would've kept records for himself?
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    danieljwaterhouse wrote:
    I totally agree with Mamba, perspective is needed.

    LA is being hunted because the UCI will be implicated in the fallout. It's easier to discredit LA publicly to disarm what is about to fall upon them when LA has his day in court.

    Do you not think a highly organised doper and bully would've kept records for himself?

    Probably easier to just jump into the 337-page thread that Brian linked to earlier, rather than try to start another new version of the same debate.
  • danieljwaterhouse
    danieljwaterhouse Posts: 13
    Imposter wrote:
    danieljwaterhouse wrote:
    I totally agree with Mamba, perspective is needed.

    LA is being hunted because the UCI will be implicated in the fallout. It's easier to discredit LA publicly to disarm what is about to fall upon them when LA has his day in court.

    Do you not think a highly organised doper and bully would've kept records for himself?

    Probably easier to just jump into the 337-page thread that Brian linked to earlier, rather than try to start another new version of the same debate.

    I will of course cede to the exsisting thread. As you've pointed out I don't often come on here so missed the whopping LA thread.

    I hope I haven't upset your keyboard warrior self too much.

    I'm off to catch up on the 'debate' :lol:
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    danieljwaterhouse wrote:
    I hope I haven't upset your keyboard warrior self too much.

    Ha ha (irony)
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    danieljwaterhouse wrote:
    Rightly he was lambasted for his doping, he destroyed what little faith was left in the sport. He was just doing what everyone else was doing to be competitive.

    Yet he did raise millions for livestrong, he gave hope and faith to millions of cancer sufferers.

    He's done what he should have done years ago, admittedly he was left with no choice, but now surely it's time he's allowed to live without being persecuted?

    Nice try Lance. Not buying it.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,230
    It's just not fair.
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    Lets be honest here, the UCI and all the controlling organisations needed a scapegoat, they dropped the ball so badly practically - if not all of - the entire peloton was doping to some extent or another (be it actual drugs or blood manipulation which was legal for part of that time anyway), they don't want to admit that publicly.

    It was seen at the time more like getting caught was the crime, not the doping itself.

    Yes Lance and US postal MAY have been better at it than everyone else, who knows, but they certainly weren't in a minority for most of that period.

    Is Lance a convenient scapegoat, yes, did he do wrong and deserve to be punished, yes. Is the punishment (in my opinion) disproportionate based on that handed to other competitors for similar wrongdoing (both in cycling and other sports), yes. Lance seems to have been punished more due to his continued denial, but put that against the backdrop of the effect an admission would have had on both his and his charity's finances versus how it would impact other people and its understandable.
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,230
    I like the fact he views the punishment as unfair and doesn't see the irony. Makes every interview with him a joy to read.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,243
    Oh, nice... a thread about Lance Armstrong!

    I never blamed him for doing what everybody else was doing in a less effective way... so I have no reason to forgive him. I never bought a Trek or Nike shoes... bought some Giro helmets, for comfort, not to look like Lance... he never got a penny out of me, so again, no reason to feel strongly about him.

    Would have been nice to see Basso in yellow at the time, but he was at it too, so no point

    For what I am concerned, he is absolved and should be allowed to get on with his life.

    People who made money off him and now are suing are the scum of the earth
    left the forum March 2023
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    I like the fact he views the punishment as unfair and doesn't see the irony. Makes every interview with him a joy to read.
    A punishment is unfair if it is a significant variance from the punishment given to others for the same offence......
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,230
    The Rookie wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    I like the fact he views the punishment as unfair and doesn't see the irony. Makes every interview with him a joy to read.
    A punishment is unfair if it is a significant variance from the punishment given to others for the same offence......

    Yes! I love the fact that he hates the unfairness of it! It's the gift that keeps giving.
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Is his sentence too harsh or the others too lenient?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,243
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Yes! I love the fact that he hates the unfairness of it! It's the gift that keeps giving.

    In his case rules have been conveniently rewritten to give him a memorable sentence... I really don't understand why... his crime was the same as others, he just did it better and had the means to hide it for longer. Let's call it for what it is: retaliation. Basically he fought a battle, rather than admitting and therefore he was punished beyond what he could have been lawfully punished.
    In other paths of law, you simply have to refund the legal costs sustained by the accusation... not sure why doping is such a major offence that requires to go the extra mile... one would be tempted to think murder and violence in general are worse crimes
    left the forum March 2023
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,230
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Yes! I love the fact that he hates the unfairness of it! It's the gift that keeps giving.

    In his case rules have been conveniently rewritten to give him a memorable sentence... I really don't understand why... his crime was the same as others, he just did it better and had the means to hide it for longer. Let's call it for what it is: retaliation. Basically he fought a battle, rather than admitting and therefore he was punished beyond what he could have been lawfully punished.
    In other paths of law, you simply have to refund the legal costs sustained by the accusation... not sure why doping is such a major offence that requires to go the extra mile... one would be tempted to think murder and violence in general are worse crimes

    You misunderstand. I don't dispute that his sentence is more than others got, I just think it's hilarious. The sentences should maybe even be random to rub in the unfairness of what they did.

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