Is nobody talking about this? Grayling doors cyclist

the_cyclist_of_catan

So, Failing Grayling proves that he's as inept as Transport Secretary as he was as Justice Secretary. You'd think that at least one of those jobs might have taught him that what he did broke several laws.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ideo-shows

spankwilder

Personally, I wouldn't ride that close up the inside of traffic. For reference the wheel is about 650mm wide. Although yep, no indication and fairly poor vehicle positioning.

chris_bass

going up the inside of a parked taxi is a bad idea, if he was in the back seat he wouldn't have a wing mirror to check so depending on the speed the cyclist was gong at it may have been pretty hard to see him.

ForumNewbie

Chris Bass wrote:

going up the inside of a parked taxi is a bad idea, if he was in the back seat he wouldn't have a wing mirror to check so depending on the speed the cyclist was gong at it may have been pretty hard to see him.

It looked like a ministerial car rather then a taxi, and it wasn't parked, it was in a queue of stationery traffic. Therefore I would have thought any passenger swinging a door open in the middle of the road, without making sure it was safe to do so, would be at fault.

Harry182

Outrageous. (As is the knee-jerk victim blaming.)

ayjaycee

Given the width of the gap between pavement and car, I might have thought about slowing down and avoiding the potential disaster in the first place. That said, Greyman should have looked before opening the door and, in any event, he's a tw4t who deserves vilification on principle.

sungod

^^^this

neither cyclist nor grayling were taking sufficient care

but the person who created the situation is the driver who stopped far away from the kerb to let the chump out and wasn't paying attention to what was around

anyway, it's clear confirmation that grayling is expendable, otherwise the cyclist would never have got that close

flanners1

Probably given the cosy relationship between Govt and media it won't get the coverage it deserves given his Ministerial role. I wonder if the cyclist is taking this further with the police, given that the person opening a car door should ensure it is safe to do so, stone bonker and if it was me given Grayling's record in Government Policy I would have him stuck on!

the_cyclist_of_catan

There was a time when a minister in charge of something like road safety doing something like this would have been a resigning matter. In the Netherlands, car users are taught to look over their shoulders before opening the car door; in Britain we can learn instead from the Minister - door the cyclist, leave, then if anybody notices get someone to point out that maybe the cyclist shouldn't be there.

I try hard not to pass vehicles on the inside. But I wouldn't fancy passing that traffic on the right hand side either. More importantly nobody has provided any safe infrastructure (also the MoT's fault).

Thie victim blamers can go and read the comments of the Mail Online's page (it's the only other site where this story appeared yesterday). They're the usual predictable tripe.

davidof

The Cyclist of Catan wrote:

I try hard not to pass vehicles on the inside. But I wouldn't fancy passing that traffic on the right hand side either. More importantly nobody has provided any safe infrastructure (also the MoT's fault).

Apparently there is a bike path on the left hand side of the road that appears then vanishes at this point to restart just after, hence the cyclists whizzing along through a narrow gap on the inside of the cars.

That said, I would ever ride at that speed on the inside of cars, I much prefer to pass on the outside of slow moving traffic (bearing in mind that taxis do sudden U turns in London with no signalling).

homers_double

Scenario #1 - Man knocks cyclist over, happens to be high profile, internet goes off on one.

Scenario #2 - Man knocks cyclist over, happens to be a random person, internet probably doesn't even find out.

kingstongraham

ayjaycee wrote:

Given the width of the gap between pavement and car, I might have thought about slowing down and avoiding the potential disaster in the first place. That said, Greyman should have looked before opening the door and, in any event, he's a tw4t who deserves vilification on principle.

How can you see what speed the cyclist was doing when they got hit? From looking closer at that video, if they had been going a bit slower, they probably would have collided with the open door. A bit faster, they'd have been fine. It looks like the door opened at the second the cyclist was alongside, sending them sideways.

alex222

It's my misfortune to have Chris Grayling as my local MP. There has been excellent coverage of him in Private Eye, gaming the expense system for his own financial benefit and screwing up the probation service with his ideologically driven privatisation.
Good to see that there is now an additional reason for me to dislike him even more.

micrographia

Beginning to think this forum has been invaded by the anti-cycling lobby. As noted above, the cyclist was taken out while passing the car. He was doored, nothing to do with speed, nothing he could've done about it. Positioning? He's on a cycle lane. The road narrows and the traffic planners sacrifice the lane, so now he's in the gutter. Can't take the outside, the road is too narrow and passing the busses would put him into oncoming traffic. There's room on the inside and he knows the lane will reappear in a bit anyway. Again as noted above, the ministerial car isn't parked up, it's simply another vehicle in the line of stationary traffic. It isn't even indicating. Do people even watch the videos before commenting?

And yet there are still people blaming the cyclist. What was he supposed to do ffs? Get off and walk every time the cycle lane disappears? Never have the temerity to filter through stationary traffic?

Then you have a transport minister who thinks as long as he gets a handshake from his shocked and shaken victim then he can wash his hands of the whole affair and not even bother to exchange details in case, y'know, he might want to check they are still ok later and offer to pay for any damage done to bike or clothing. What a tw*t.

Jeez.

Garry H

Double yellow as well...

rick_chasey

ayjaycee wrote:

Given the width of the gap between pavement and car, I might have thought about slowing down and avoiding the potential disaster in the first place. That said, Greyman should have looked before opening the door and, in any event, he's a tw4t who deserves vilification on principle.

So how are cyclists supposed to get to the bike lane which is about 10m down the road from when the cyclist got knocked off? You know, the white painted line on the inside between the vehicular traffic and the pavement.


Hmm?

stanthomas

It's worth noting that Grayling is a minister in a government that wants to restrict personal injury claims against motorists. Marketed as an anti-whiplash measure, it would also, according to the CTC http://www.cyclinguk.org/campaign/road-victims-real-victims, limit cyclists ability to claim against car users like Grayling and his driver in this type of situation.

flanners1

homers double wrote:

Scenario #1 - Man knocks cyclist over, happens to be high profile, internet goes off on one.

Scenario #2 - Man knocks cyclist over, happens to be a random person, internet probably doesn't even find out.

That is pretty obvious though, is it not? as Joe Bloggs has limited public interest.

But when the Sec of State for Transport commits a traffic offence, the aftermath of which is captured on video, causes injury/damage to property and then pisses off without giving details, this deserves the coverage and more, with the added irony that the prick (Sec of State) has been quoted making comments against increasing cycling infrastructure etc. It once again shows the lack of accountability and the abuse of position that people in authority perpetrate.

buckles

Grayling should have checked before opening the door, and the driver should have pulled over properly before allowing passengers to exit, but FFS, if you're on a bike, NEVER undertake motor vehicles and STAY OUT of the door zone!

cycleclinic

It's the cyclist fault he/she put him/herself in that position. If that was me i would blame myself.

kingstongraham

Buckles wrote:

Grayling should have checked before opening the door, and the driver should have pulled over properly before allowing passengers to exit, but FFS, if you're on a bike, NEVER undertake motor vehicles and STAY OUT of the door zone!

In London at rush hour? You might as well take a bus.

thegibdog

thecycleclinic wrote:

It's the cyclist fault he/she put him/herself in that position. If that was me i would blame myself.

In the same way it's the victim's fault for walking down the dark alley. Jesus wept. I hope you're just trolling.

If the Transport - and former Justice - Secretary can commit such an offence and carry on with impunity then there is no hope for any vulnerable road users.

rick_chasey

Buckles wrote:

Grayling should have checked before opening the door, and the driver should have pulled over properly before allowing passengers to exit, but FFS, if you're on a bike, NEVER undertake motor vehicles and STAY OUT of the door zone!

Even when the bike path puts you there?

Do any of you even ride in London?


It's occurred 10m from the beginning of a path.

bendertherobot

I shall begin a mammoth epic piece for the blog on this.

Can someone give me the actual map position by the way? It isn't just a cycle path coming up, as I understand it it's one just finished as well so we have a silly no mans land which, according to some commentators, means you then have to join the traffic or, grudgingly, OVERtake.

timothyw

It's an interesting one - he's literally yards from a cycle path there, which puts it in a very grey area. The temptation to undertake is very clear, and when you see other bikes ahead of you, easy to assume that cars/passengers are aware of the risk.

Riding in the gutter like that is a big no-no for reasons beyond the door risk though - threat of punctures from debris being the obvious one - that it's just false economy. I can't claim I don't do it at one time or another most weeks though.

It made me wince just undertaking the bus and coach in that video - if the traffic starts moving, has the coach/bus driver seen you? If they squeeze you against the curb and you need to drop back behind it, does the driver in the vehicle behind know you are there? Will they leave you a gap?

It's just so much safer to filter on the right. The traffic going the opposite direction can definitely see you - it's looking right at you. You're big in the mirrors of the drivers that you are overtaking, and coming into their peripheral vision. When you're past them, they can still see you as you overtake the next car.

The cyclist was lucky if they were hit by the door opening, instead of riding into a door that had just been opened - much greater risk for broken bones there.

Really though, what a piece of shit Chris Grayling is, giving him the politician's handshake and fucking off. I'm sure he had a lovely time moaning about that bloody cyclist in the bar afterwards.

timothyw

Bender, this is the location:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.49954 ... 312!8i6656

That is looking back from the bike path being approached to where it happened - that's streetview from this August.

bendertherobot

TimothyW wrote:

Bender, this is the location:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.49954 ... 312!8i6656

That is looking back from the bike path being approached to where it happened - that's streetview from this August.

Thanks Tim. I'd read that one finished before the next one started. Scrolling back down the road that doesn't appear to be the case. Not that it matters much.

webboo

Haven't Cycling Uk or what used to be the CTC offered to support the cyclist in taking Mr Grayling to court.

veronese68

Webboo wrote:

Haven't Cycling Uk or what used to be the CTC offered to support the cyclist in taking Mr Grayling to court.

Yes, Another interesting bit here. The former head of the all party cycling committee is writing to the PM about it. When I got doored the policeman was quite clear that opening a door in traffic was what he called "an absolute offence", whatever that means.

bendertherobot

That's correct. Requires no intention to do it, the act of doing it is enough. It's a regulatory offence essentially.

That doesn't mean that the CPS WILL prosecute it as doing so might not meet the code for prosecutions (i.e. not in the public interest etc).

I disagree. It is. But there may be an element here of the fact that it's a rare offence (relatively) and doing Grayling for it is actually a bit unfair due to the profile. Again, I disagree.

I actually think this is a slam dunk case which must be prosecuted.

rick_chasey

If Grayling was a responsible politician (and I have my doubts), he’d own up, get a slap on the wrist for a minor traffic offence (like, paying a fine or something – it wasn’t that bad – it wasn’t, deliberate, the rider is actually fine and he did show some concern, if briefly), and stand on the streets on London in front of the press and say how it’s an important lesson for all of us to make sure we look out for all road users, not just the ones with motors.