Internal cable routing nightmare

JamesT95

Hi,
I've been having massive problems with the internal routing on my Planet X RT58. I replaced the inner cables a few months ago, after hours and hours of struggling and ever since the shifting has been awful. There is way too much friction to make it usable, so much so that it often wouldn't change in to the smallest cog. I decided a few days ago to remove the cable and try and put a new PTFE coated one in to try and reduce the friction.

So I pulled the cable and out and left it for a few days, and now it appears something is completely blocking the routing along the chain stay when pushing the cable in from the rear mech side. I've tried gear cables as well as brake cables as they feel more sturdy but it will not budge. Also, routing down the down tube, the cable gets stuck at the bottom bracket. Unbelievably there is no access to the internal routing from the bottom bracket so I have no idea what's going on inside the frame.

I've spoken to Planet X and they were basically useless, so I'm looking for any good ideas of how to try and fix this?

In the very likely chance it's broken, has anyone got any tips for routing externally? Do I just buy a long outer and run the cable through the outer the whole way?




Thanks, any help is very much appreciated!

fat daddy

what is that inside the routing holes ?

I have internal routing on a 1997 Klein and sure its old tech but there is NOTHING in the holes, just a hole and a little metal plug that stop the nodule of the brake/gear cable from disappearing into the frame when you operate them.

from the pics it looks like some kind of material that .. well looks like mortar in brick work. Do PX fill there frames with expanding foam ?

are you poking a bare cable down there .... have you got a plastic cable sheath inner that you can poke down first and then feed a cable down that ?

alternatively stick a vacuum to the hole and as you feed the cable down it sucks the cable towards the hole so it wont snag on anything .... like expanding foam

JamesT95

I think there is a plastic sheath inner but it's just hard to see in the photos (and in person). The front mech definitely has one as the sheath actually comes out of the holes.

I tried the vacuum before and it didn't work, so unfortunately can't see it working now with the chainstay seemingly completely blocked.

fat daddy

hmm, I wonder if the sheath has come adrift and is causing the cable to miss its mark

It might be a case of trying to remove it totally and start again on getting something down there ...... but that's going to be a pain of a frustrating job to do

out of interest have you tried feeding a cable from the bottom back tot eh top to see how far it gets ?

JamesT95

Ah sorry, I must have not been clear, so feeding it from the bottom back up is where it's hitting the complete block. It's about 5-10cm after the cable goes in through the bottom. And then when I feed it in through the top it can't get passed the bottom bracket, so I can't get to the block from the other side and try and push it out.

I'm not sure how I'd got about removing the sheath without any of it coming out the hole?

step83

The bottom bracket section, can that be removed? On my RT80 theres a screen and the panel comes out when the BB is not present. With it out you may be able to see whats going on. From memory they are not foam filled but you never know.

topgunsteve

Can you post a picture of the cable routing from the BB?

Sometimes, depending on what's happened before; the liner can get a bit bent making it harder run the cable past the crease. Some liners go from the cable port and finish halfway down the tube, so in your case it could be that when you reverse the cable up the downtube from the bottom bracket it isn't getting the liner and is hitting some carbon ruffage on the inside of the tube.

Have you tried using a magnet to direct the cable? this and a bit more force might help feed the cable correctly.

JamesT95

I haven't taken the bottom bracket off myself, but Halfords have taken it off a few months ago and said there was no access to the routing. I also think I've read somewhere else there is no access. Might be worth me checking though.

Also, I've tried magnets (rare earth ones, supposed to be strong) but the carbon is too thick and as soon as the cable goes into the frame the magnet no longer works.

I don't think I have the tools to remove the BB so can't take any photos now, but will probably get the tools so I can have a look for myself.

step83

Id pick up the tools and remove it, look on parktools for how to do this. Halfords are not renowned for their skills unfortunately.

On the underside of the frame where the BB sits is there a black plastic fitting that has a small torx screw in it?

JamesT95

Yeah I think so, here's a picture. I just unscrewed it though and I can't see in to the bottom bracket with it off. The only thing it seems to be doing is routing the front mech cable.

step83

Ah OK, totally different to what I was thinking, the later ones have a large rectangular plastic cover. When you feed the cable up the BB to the steerer end how far would you say its going? I think Topgunsteve is right, its likely got a full sleeve in there somewhere, if you ping the frame is it hollow sounding?

The Rookie

I'm sure I recall a similar issue on here recently, also an RT58 and the EPS foam had shifted and disturbed the inner sleeve acting as a guide, I recall PX weren't overly helpful but I can't recall the final solution.

JamesT95

I've tried tapping the frame and to me it sounds pretty much the same where ever I flick it.

Doesn't sound good about the EPS foam shifting though, I guess if that's the case there's not much I can do?

StillGoing

You could try getting some welding rod or something similar that is stiffer and less pliable than a cable inner, and then try inserting that to see if it will clear the blockage.

bbrap

The white plastic coated springy stuff used to hold up net curtains is also quite useful. Just strip back 1/4 inch of the plastic coating from one end and you can use it like a corkscrew to drill through any foam obstruction. If it wont go right through it may be capable of gripping the obstruction enough to pull it back out.

JamesT95

Is this the kind of thing you mean https://www.amazon.co.uk/Curtain-Wire-M ... B002Z8N0KC ?

How thick is that stuff? I've tried a brake cable as that is a bit stiffer and it barely fits in the hole so I'd imagine anything bigger than 1.5 or 1.6mm will be too big.

bbrap

JamesT95 wrote:

Is this the kind of thing you mean https://www.amazon.co.uk/Curtain-Wire-M ... B002Z8N0KC ?

How thick is that stuff? I've tried a brake cable as that is a bit stiffer and it barely fits in the hole so I'd imagine anything bigger than 1.5 or 1.6mm will be too big.

Yep thats the stuff. About the same dia as a brake cable outer I'd guess.

bbrap

JamesT95 wrote:

Is this the kind of thing you mean https://www.amazon.co.uk/Curtain-Wire-M ... B002Z8N0KC ?

How thick is that stuff? I've tried a brake cable as that is a bit stiffer and it barely fits in the hole so I'd imagine anything bigger than 1.5 or 1.6mm will be too big.

Yep thats the stuff. About the same dia as a brake cable outer I'd guess. I've got some in the garage so I'll pop out and shove a micro on it and let you know exactly.

bbrap

Just had a measure up. My brake cable outers are 5mm, the white stuff is 4mm. Looks like that is a no no then if 1.6 is the biggest you can get in there. How about a wire coathanger straightened out?

topgunsteve

Where does the rear mech cable exit the frame? Does it exit before the bottom bracket, go through the cable guide and then enter the chainstay?

I can't see from the picture you posted, having look online at the frame it looks like it has a full metal sleeved BB so even if you took the cups out you probably wouldn't see anything.

Rather surprised that the magnets didn't help, Park Tools sell a specific magentic kit to help guide internally routed cables.

JamesT95

It exits the frame at the end of the chainstay. It goes in at the top and is then inside the whole way, it doesn't exit the frame at the bottom bracket.

Yeah, I'm also a bit surprised the magnets don't work, but they don't even get close to being able to attract the cable through the carbon.

MrSweary

The way I threaded mine was to suck a bit of thread through with a hoover then tie it to the cable and pull through that way. I'm not sure that would work though with those holes or with the EPS foam. It kind of relies on there being a hole larger than a few mm at one end or the other!

If it does you'll have to tie the thread really tight and really close to the end of the cable to avoid repeated swearing.

JamesT95

Yeah I've tried using the hoover but it didn't work sadly. Thinking for the time being just routing externally, but not sure what I need? I've read this article http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cables.html which talks about needing compressionless cables but can't seem to find them anywhere. Does anyone know actually what I need (ideally off Wiggle)? Cheers!

StillGoing

JamesT95 wrote:

Yeah I've tried using the hoover but it didn't work sadly. Thinking for the time being just routing externally, but not sure what I need? I've read this article http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cables.html which talks about needing compressionless cables but can't seem to find them anywhere. Does anyone know actually what I need (ideally off Wiggle)? Cheers!

See if there is a mechanic near you with an endoscope and willing to poke in the frame to ascertain what the blockage is. Some use them for looking inside engines etc to check things rather than doing a full strip down.

hsiaolc

Looks like a white gunk in the hole? Even with the picture of the cable out half it is white cover with white crap?!! Doesn't look like there is much lubrication for any thing to move.

Squirt a lot of GT85 on it if I were you.

Then I will make a metal coat hanger straight and as long as possible and poke inside and ty to make ti come out the other end and then tape one end of the hanger (using cellotape works) to the brake wire and viola.

hsiaolc

Looks like a white gunk in the hole? Even with the picture of the cable out half it is white cover with white crap?!! Doesn't look like there is much lubrication for any thing to move.

Squirt a lot of GT85 on it if I were you.

Then I will make a metal coat hanger straight and as long as possible and poke inside and ty to make ti come out the other end and then tape one end of the hanger (using cellotape works) to the brake wire and viola. From looking at the picture closely everything is rusted!!

You sure don't maintain your bike very well if at all.

topgunsteve

If you want to run extrernaly you're going to need full length gear housing as tehre are no cable stops on the frame (being internally routed). You'll then have to Cable tie this to the frame bring careful not to foul the chainset or chain. No reason why you couldnt rout it along the top tube and down alongside the seat stay though.

If you reverse route the cable (from the chain stay) how far does it get? Just wondering if the lining cable has worn through around the bottom brack bend. All the Internally routed bikes I've had exit at the BB and go back in a few CMs later - or have an inspection hatch to help oute the cables around the BB.

JamesT95

It gets about 5cm, before it comes completely blocked. It's weird, because the first and only time I ever changed the cables on this I could only route it reversely through the chainstay and not the correct way. Then, this time when I removed the cable the routing became instantly blocked along the chainstay. If I hadn't seen the cable come out in one piece I would have though something had come off and blocked it.

I've just gone home for Christmas so don't have the bike to do any more fiddling around with it, but am looking to get something solid to give it a firm push with. A stretched out wire coat hanger seems ideal but they seem to be around 2.5mm thick which is unfortunately too big to fit in the hole, so need something smaller.

I think I'm probably going to route it externally and then just continue plugging away at the internal routing with the hope that one day it might fix itself.