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What Family electic downhill bikes ?

onesoldsoulonesoldsoul Posts: 13
edited December 2016 in MTB buying advice
HI All

Just joined the forum - hello everyone

My family (Me 5'9" @ 75kg, misses 5'@ 50kg, and 9 yr old son 4'7'' @ ~43kg), have just bought a lovely place on Scenic Drive, Cwmcarn; we are lucky to have fully graded MB downhill courses straight out of our back gate.

We do plenty of typical family riding on our current adequate steads around swindon. My son and i tried the moderate Cwmcarn route of 9m (up and down as the ascent-vans weren't running that day), i was overwhelmed and very impressed by his effort and tenacity on his 24" wheel MB despite narrow tricky relentlesh climbs, teary proud daddy moment sob sob.

I've been toying with getting him an Osset TB for some time as a plaything he could probably get away with riding whilst we walk the dog. I also need to purchase 3 downhill spec MB for the family anyway so i was thinking of 3 x electric MB instead.

Any suggestions out there for sourcing the following with a budget of £4k.... either new or used bikes?
3 x electric downhill MB, 3 x back protectors, gloves and knee pads- I might be able to find another 10% if required. Would ideally like to have same bikes with different frame sizes so no one thinks daddy's bike's too good!!

My son is fairly tall, in the bike shop the other day he test rode a very low framed 27.5" wheel bike just about ok and he is currently shooting up
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Posts

  • Why electric?
  • Why electric?

    so we can rip back up the hill again.

    We met a bike journailst once on the mountain and he was showing us an electric bike he was reviewing - it was sweet and the concept of ripping back up the mountain again with little effort was very attrative to us all, including the all important misses
  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 15,247
    Don't be lazy. Get an enduro bike.
    Cwmcarn downhill trails are fairly tame so an enduro bike is more fun
    Some trail centres and bike parks don't allow electric bikes so it'll limit where you can ride. You also won't be able to have a go at racing with an electric bike.
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,601
    You'd be lucky to get three DH bikes for that, let alone electric ones.

    Do you actually mean DH bikes though? Or just mountain bikes?
    I don't do smileys.

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  • cooldad wrote:
    You'd be lucky to get three DH bikes for that, let alone electric ones.

    Do you actually mean DH bikes though? Or just mountain bikes?

    probs go for enduro bikes as rockmonkey suggested. As we're all pretty much beginners.

    Potentially looking at rear hub mounted motors, as the crank mounted motors (most seem be bosch) are £3k+

    There's some Boardman and KTM rear motored bikes on Ebay for about £1500-£1800 - with time and effort i could probs get 3 for under £4.5k ...?
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,601
    You mean something like this?

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2017-Boardman ... Sw44BYNGYC

    Not an enduro bike by a long shot, and would be pretty nasty down anything approaching DH.
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,601
    Guy does some funny stuff - the battery is carried in a rucksack. Again not something I'd want to ride seriously, especially if I fell off.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/500-Watt-Rear ... Sw5HJXJ99~
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 15,247
    That'll break your spine if you land on it. Broken vertebrae really hurt (I've been there)
    Those bikes are xc oriented trail bikes. They won't last long on a downhill trail.
    The rear hub is the last place you want that extra weight, it'll ruin the suspension performance and handling. You'll also be getting a new bike without a warranty.
    A proper enduro bike, without the fat man's motor will cost you £2500 for something which will take repeated laps of downhill trails without wheels or frame falling to bits.
  • cooldad wrote:
    Guy does some funny stuff - the battery is carried in a rucksack. Again not something I'd want to ride seriously, especially if I fell off.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/500-Watt-Rear ... Sw5HJXJ99~

    Yeah I've been thinking about the battery on the pack pack issues so not keen on that principle. But there's a full sus Kim and a Benelli that have frame mounted battery packs.

    I'm looking for summin that l keep the families attention spans going for the long term. I could get 3 decent spec enduros for £1500 each second hand but I fear they ll spend most of the time in the garage and hardly ridden at all. £2.5k each for 3 bikes is climbing a mountain before either of us gets on the mountain and at least 1 would end up being ornamental.

    Whereas I'm looking for accessabilty and fun for all the family together. The misses chickens out of our bike rides quite a lot.

    I went down the mountain on a 20 year Marin downhill hardtail and my son on a 6 yr old Gary fisher (fairly upspecced) with normal brakes and we both had a awesome time and both bikes made it without any issues - all I did was upgrade the tyres. Plus I broke 2 vertebrae dislocated shoulder and left hand in a bad motor cycle accident around 2 years ago

    Defo the crank mounted motor is better balanced but it's £3k upwards. something merely 3 or 4 steps up + motor from our existing bikes would times the smiles by 10 and really get used regularly. Plus I need some cash left over for a Sunday car weapon like a 265 tt or rx8- other types of pipeline family fun we ve got planned.

    Is there anything to be seriously concerned with the Ktm or Benelli?
  • These seem to better than all the other unknowns on this pric bracket:

    This is the Benelli
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131851505801

    This is the ktm - the new ones are crank mounted motor

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182384408540

    Hub mounted motor ktm
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122264536050

    Frame mounted battery boardman

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302144975829
  • Throw away the idea of electric bikes, and the downhill bike bit and it starts sounding like a good idea.
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,601
    First Google 'Downhill bike'. Then you'll see it isn't what you think it is. But all of those are basic spec bikes at silly prices due to the motors.
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • robertpbrobertpb Posts: 1,866
    That boardman is a £520 trail bike. With all the extra cost of fitting the electric parts on it bringing it up to £1495.

    The smallest of these are far too big for your son even riding on the road, let alone riding off road.
    Now where's that "Get Out of Crash Free Card"
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,601
    My personal opinion - the last thing I would buy my kid is an electric bike.

    My own struggled a bit initially to keep up with me - I was younger then, and very, very fit, but it didn't take long before he was leaving me in his dust, uphill and downhill. It also made him value fitness so he runs, climbs and rides. And keeps it all fairly healthy, no smoking etc. Even nagged me into stopping.
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 15,247
    This is a downhill bike:
    search?q=nukeproof+pulse+2017&safe=off&client=ms-android-sonymobile&prmd=isvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiw7ZXO2e_QAhWmJsAKHZ6_BXUQ_AUIBygB#imgrc=l5bFTM3X1YJLjM%3A

    They start at around £2500 for a very basic model with cheap components which are unlikely to last long. For a read to race bike it's a minimum of £4k

    This is downhill:
    search?q=red+bull+hardline&safe=off&client=ms-android-sonymobile&prmd=visn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjaoL392O_QAhVGJsAKHTeUA4oQ_AUICCgC&biw=360&bih=512#imgrc=CTOoCf_Tgznc0M%3A

    Cwmcarn is very much at the tame end of downhill but the trails will destroy a basic trail bike in no time. The braking bumps there are a killer.
  • JBAJBA Posts: 2,790
    edited December 2016
    onesoldsoul - do you really want Downhill bikes or do you want bikes that you can go down hills on?
    When you rode Cwmcarn which trail were you on - Cafall, Twrch, Y Mynydd or Pedalhounds?
    “Life has been unfaithful
    And it all promised so so much”

    Giant Trance 2 27.5 2016 ¦ Sonder Broken Road 2021¦ Giant Revolt Advanced 2 2019 ¦ Giant Anthem 3 2015 ¦ Specialized Myka Comp FSR 2009
  • fat daddyfat daddy Posts: 2,605
    (1) you are very luck to be living at the bottom of cwmcarn - don't waste this opportunity

    (2) don't buy electric - seriously, cwmcarn is one of the best and most complete trails I have ever ridden, the uphill technical climb is hard work, but the more you do it the more you will become a seriously good rider, it will give you bags of strength, balance and skill that will make your downhill efforts easier and faster.

    get enduro based bikes, I was doing cwmcarn on an 80mm hardtail with v-brakes before finally settling on a 5" FS and my wife on a 4" FS ... they are perfect for the terrain

    don't waste this opportunity by wimping out on the climbs, give your son the skills now to climb, boost his cardio, boost his skill and his strength and by the time he is 20, he will be a devastating rider
  • BriggoBriggo Posts: 3,537

    I went down the mountain on a 20 year Marin downhill hardtail

    I think you need to do a lot more research.
  • oxomanoxoman Posts: 9,729
    Forget the ebike thing unless your old, disabled or very lazy. Get something like Giant Trance or similar and get fit. You could possibly get away with shorter travel rig for your lad if he's a lightweight. Agree with the back protection if your giving it large, personally I don't bother but I don't do massive jumps either. I don't trust homemade ebikes either to many dodgy builds out there.
    Too many bikes according to Mrs O.
  • fat daddyfat daddy Posts: 2,605
    back protection ?? .... I have never landed on my back, or hit it in a fall ... its always my shoulder, elbow, wrist, neck and head that get it .... followed by the ribs, love handles thighs and knees

    however protecting that lot makes you hot, so I just wear shin guards
  • Why electric?

    so we can rip back up the hill again.

    We met a bike journailst once on the mountain and he was showing us an electric bike he was reviewing - it was sweet and the concept of ripping back up the mountain again with little effort was very attrative to us all, including the all important misses

    You can do that by pedalling. Cwmcarn has uplift anyway.


    You can't really get DH e-bikes (you can but one will cost double your budget). Look for 3 decent hardtails to get you started.
  • FishFishFishFish Posts: 2,152
    Buy an ebike for the Mrs and get a couple of hardtails for you and your son.
    ...take your pickelf on your holibobs.... :D

    jeez :roll:
  • cooldad wrote:
    My personal opinion - the last thing I would buy my kid is an electric bike.

    My own struggled a bit initially to keep up with me - I was younger then, and very, very fit, but it didn't take long before he was leaving me in his dust, uphill and downhill. It also made him value fitness so he runs, climbs and rides. And keeps it all fairly healthy, no smoking etc. Even nagged me into stopping.


    Yep cooldad i predominently agree; this is my biggest dilemma reducing the fitness element for my son. But he's had 3 quads since he was 20 mths old, just sold his last one last one a few days ago.
    We're all petrol heads (hence why i've been considering an Osset TB for something else motor driven for him). The misses always has fast cars. She loves speed, when we first met she went on the back of all my superbikes, i would hear her shout-buzzing on the back with more pace including 3 figure cornering; she would love to give me handfulls of sideverge flowerage when we got to our destinations. I've taken her on one of my many trips to Nurburgring where she has lapped pillion on the back with me and i dont hang about (I do low 8's). When ever i went to MX and Supermoto practise tracks and races, I would always take my son out for blat on many of my 250/450 beasts.
    We also have a race spec pit bike with 2 sets of wheels sm/mx. So we're all that way inclined.

    Perhaps refering to the bikes as DH is wrong, sounds like refering to them even as enduros is also wrong.

    Terminolgy aside....we are speed lovers, I was showing the bikes to the misses last night and she loves the whole idea especially the KTM Machina for us and something smaller like the voodoo Hoodoo for the boy - tbc

    My 20 year Marin inherited from a dead best mate did the (first ride) job fine but i know we need much better, just because the boy didnt have nike airs doesnt mean he can't run

    Any feedback available on the KTM Machina (crank mount motor version)?
  • fat daddy wrote:
    back protection ?? .... I have never landed on my back, or hit it in a fall ... its always my shoulder, elbow, wrist, neck and head that get it .... followed by the ribs, love handles thighs and knees

    however protecting that lot makes you hot, so I just wear shin guards

    Good point - i've been chatting to quite a few riders at the bike hut on the bottom of Cwmcarn mountain and the overiding minimum armour is full face helmut, Shins, knees and gloves. Most say spine protector is abit OTT, one nutter said if he had one he may go even faster still, but having broken my back before and keen to get electric MB, could mean back protector may not be so in the way, sweaty etc
  • cooldad wrote:
    My personal opinion - the last thing I would buy my kid is an electric bike.

    My own struggled a bit initially to keep up with me - I was younger then, and very, very fit, but it didn't take long before he was leaving me in his dust, uphill and downhill. It also made him value fitness so he runs, climbs and rides. And keeps it all fairly healthy, no smoking etc. Even nagged me into stopping.


    Yep cooldad i predominently agree; this is my biggest dilemma reducing the fitness element for my son. But he's had 3 quads since he was 20 mths old, just sold his last one last one a few days ago.
    We're all petrol heads (hence why i've been considering an Osset TB for something else motor driven for him). The misses always has fast cars. She loves speed, when we first met she went on the back of all my superbikes, i would hear her shout-buzzing on the back with more pace including 3 figure cornering; she would love to give me handfulls of sideverge flowerage when we got to our destinations. I've taken her on one of my many trips to Nurburgring where she has lapped pillion on the back with me and i dont hang about (I do low 8's). When ever i went to MX and Supermoto practise tracks and races, I would always take my son out for blat on many of my 250/450 beasts.
    We also have a race spec pit bike with 2 sets of wheels sm/mx. So we're all that way inclined.

    Perhaps refering to the bikes as DH is wrong, sounds like refering to them even as enduros is also wrong.

    Terminolgy aside....we are speed lovers, I was showing the bikes to the misses last night and she loves the whole idea especially the KTM Machina for us and something smaller like the voodoo Hoodoo for the boy - tbc

    My 20 year Marin inherited from a dead best mate did the (first ride) job fine but i know we need much better, just because the boy didnt have nike airs doesnt mean he can't run

    Any feedback available on the KTM Machina (crank mount motor version)?

    E-bikes will not make you faster downhill if it's speed you are after, they will make you slower. Honestly, I would drop the idea of e-bikes personally.

    The KTM is a cheap MTB with a motor, it's not good. Drop the idea of e-bikes and you'll get three much better performing bikes that are much more fun downhill.
  • E-bikes will not make you faster downhill if it's speed you are after, they will make you slower. Honestly, I would drop the idea of e-bikes personally.

    The KTM is a cheap MTB with a motor, it's not good. Drop the idea of e-bikes and you'll get three much better performing bikes that are much more fun downhill.[/quote]

    Cheers for the feedback on the KTM i will keep researching - Ebikes are faster uphill, faster along the greenlanes and A-B trails
  • E-bikes will not make you faster downhill if it's speed you are after, they will make you slower. Honestly, I would drop the idea of e-bikes personally.

    The KTM is a cheap MTB with a motor, it's not good. Drop the idea of e-bikes and you'll get three much better performing bikes that are much more fun downhill.

    Cheers for the feedback on the KTM i will keep researching - Ebikes are faster uphill, faster along the greenlanes and A-B trails

    This isn't true. E-bikes will assist up to 25kph. A reasonably fit cyclist can average higher than that no problem on cyclepaths and as soon as you add downhills to trails e-bikes are slower. They are a massive compromise.
  • FishFish wrote:
    Buy an ebike for the Mrs and get a couple of hardtails for you and your son.

    Potentially a viable idea - thanks
  • Just spotted this Ansmann

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ansmann-RM7-0 ... Sw0fhXkNRJ

    120mm travel rockshox
    radial mounted hydraulic brakes
    13.9kg (probs minus battery)
    7005 Allu frame
    Deore gears
    Motor has energy recovery system
  • Just spotted this Ansmann

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ansmann-RM7-0 ... Sw0fhXkNRJ

    120mm travel rockshox
    radial mounted hydraulic brakes
    13.9kg (probs minus battery)
    7005 Allu frame
    Deore gears
    Motor has energy recovery system

    That bike weighs 13.7kg before conversion according to the Halfords description:

    http://www.halfords.com/cycling/bikes/m ... -bike-2015

    The Ansmann motor (probably without the cassette or qr) is 4 kg and the light-weight battery pack on the Ansmann site (which is not the one fitted) is 1.8kg.

    In total I would guess at a weight of between 21-22kg.
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