Why have I slowed down.
Comments
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thecycleclinic wrote:Speak for yourselves i have not slowed down i getting fitter counteracting the thicker air.
The air is not thicker... I would argue that if anything it is thinner... hard to get monster high pressure in winter. However, temperature has a say in how easy or difficult it is to shift air... it's kinetic energy in a system which is there or notleft the forum March 20230 -
homers double wrote:If you take note of some of his previous posts along the lines of "my sh!t bike is more likely better than your good bikes" then you'll understand my response.
I have no problem at all with people who can maintain that pace and good luck (although I doubt luck has much to do with it) to them but don't sound so uppety about the fact.
10 minute later edit...DavidJB wrote:okgo wrote:But these guys won't be riding their sh!tty training bikes I suppose...
Having looked back at a few of my rides, on my good bike (I don't have a sh!tty one) it seems that it takes me 250 or so as well, but I'm a lot heavier than you.
What I describe as 'sh!tty training bike' is probably as good than most peoples good bikes just shittier than my race bike.
I've looked back through his posts and there is an occasional hint of a superiority complex, but that could just be due to poor choice of words / grammar due to fatigue. 10,000 training miles a year at 20mph must take it out of you!0 -
The odd slip up yes but almost evey other post is condescending towards others.Advocate of disc brakes.0
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I didn't think a base ride was meant to be fast - I thought it was just to get miles in at a reasonable pace?DavidJB wrote:On a base ride in the summer I average 20-20.5mph in the winter it can be 19-19.5 with the same or higher power. Same bike, same wheels...just environmental conditions.0 -
Just to dispel the weather / temperature notion, I recently took myself off to the relative winter heat of Southern Europe for a spot of cycling and I was still rubbish!!0
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It takes longer to warm up properly in winter and so you are probably 1/3 of the way into your cycle before your properly warmed up and up to speed.
I've been cycling for 6 years and my speed always drops off in winter despite the fact that I've the same levels of fitness. Don't worry about it and don't be dwelling on it, keep up the spins during winter and your speed will increase during the warmer months.0 -
As already said - air density. Not really anything to do with taking longer to warm up as speed is proportional to air temperature at all times - even when it is already warm. Image shows some data of my own. Grey is the actual data, purple a 45 day moving average (time shifter 22 days to bring it back on line) and the other lines are the maximum and minimum temperatures for the month recorded at a local met office station.
The scales are tweaked to set my speed between the two so if I am doing well, I'm above the max line and vice versa. Really though, the better than averages probably usually reflect specific conditions - eg if I get a period of favourable winds in one direction (this is mostly commute data) and I don't pay for it in the opposite direction (eg strong westerly in the morning dying off by afternoon) then it can hugely boost my pace.
3.5 mph or so variance between summer and winter!
Faster than a tent.......0 -
Ive never been very fast on a bike. These days as I approach 60 I think I've done well if I return an average of 14mph for a ride. It's the reason I decided I didn't like sportives; it's quite demoralisisng spending an entire day being overtaken. I know I'm slow, but a sportive is a bit like having my nose rubbed in it. All my riding is at my own pace and in glorious isolation
Now that is inspirational, thank you. Im hitting mid 50's and, because of still loosing weight I think, despite getting older, I am still getting a little faster. This summer plus 15.5 was the target now its plus 15.0 but I dont often make it. As each year goes by I am just hoping the joints hold up and I can keep going, For my 50th I bought a garmin and I think my 60th present to myself may be to cancel the average speed display.0 -
Rolf F wrote:As already said - air density. Not really anything to do with taking longer to warm up as speed is proportional to air temperature at all times - even when it is already warm. Image shows some data of my own. Grey is the actual data, purple a 45 day moving average (time shifter 22 days to bring it back on line) and the other lines are the maximum and minimum temperatures for the month recorded at a local met office station.
The scales are tweaked to set my speed between the two so if I am doing well, I'm above the max line and vice versa. Really though, the better than averages probably usually reflect specific conditions - eg if I get a period of favourable winds in one direction (this is mostly commute data) and I don't pay for it in the opposite direction (eg strong westerly in the morning dying off by afternoon) then it can hugely boost my pace.
3.5 mph or so variance between summer and winter!
Impressive analysis thank you for sharing what programme(s) did you use to collect, analyse and display the data?0 -
wishitwasallflat wrote:Impressive analysis thank you for sharing what programme(s) did you use to collect, analyse and display the data?
Thanks. It's just a case of taking the average speed for each ride and putting it into Microsoft Excel. The temperature data comes from the Met Office here: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weat ... teHistoric
The moving average is part of the Excel graphing function - 45 days is pretty good; it minimises weather and enhances climate if you see what I mean. Without some sort of averaging, the extremes are too varied to easily get your head round though if you look at the pale grey, raw data, you can see easily enough that the same pattern applies.
Apologies to any who think my speeds pitifully slow! I do have hills to climb and luggage to carry!Faster than a tent.......0 -
I get air density, colder muscles, less aero kit and all that probably plays havoc with TTers and pro riders speeds in the winter, because they are working at the nth degree and every watt counts for them, but for regular cycling cyclists, does it really make all that much difference ? or is it just stuff that sounds more like its right ?
its just I dont feel like Ive slowed down because its colder, Ive been fairly consistently hitting 15mph this year in most conditions though cant seem to break beyond 15mph, and whilst it feels harder work at the moment, that could be anything from where my mood is at,an imbalance of certain biological things,or even that Im carrying a slight niggle, Im not and probably never will be riding at optimum condition in every ride, so I kind of put variations like losing half a mile an hour or even gaining seemingly to those intangible variables you cant always identify or even quantify.
Im still getting a decent smattering of best segment times for the year on some of my longer rides,I set nearly my fastest time for 1st 10 miles of the year at the weekend, the rest of the ride was a bit all over the place pace wise so overall it all averaged out to be pretty much par for the course
but I actually feel better cycling when the air has a bit of a nip about it and Im just comfortably warm, as opposed to it being stupidly hot and Im melting,warmer more humid air always feels denser harder to breath in. 0 -
awavey wrote:.................. but for regular cycling cyclists, does it really make all that much difference ? or is it just stuff that sounds more like its right ?
A power meter will give you the answers for yourself but they are yes and no, in that order."You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul0 -
Drag is directly proportional to air density and directly proportional to frontal area. More dense air and more (and bulkier) clothes and Bob's your uncle. Science innit...
And rubber definitely gets more flexible with temperature so I suspect there's an effect there.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
MugenSi wrote:It takes longer to warm up properly in winter and so you are probably 1/3 of the way into your cycle before your properly warmed up and up to speed.
I've been cycling for 6 years and my speed always drops off in winter despite the fact that I've the same levels of fitness. Don't worry about it and don't be dwelling on it, keep up the spins during winter and your speed will increase during the warmer months.
A 3rd of the way into your ride to warm up? You need to work harder or cycle further. 5 or 10 minutes even in very cold temperature is enough to warm up if you put the effort in.I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0 -
One never asks a lady how old she is.Advocate of disc brakes.0
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Had a good ride this morning.usual 30 mile weekday route and felt great.was sure I would have been up to a good average but garmin ran out of battery half way round.I'm an idiot sometimes.
I think the main thing is most people agree your slower in the winter but the most important things are im out,enjoying it ,getting fitter by the week and I'm still loosing weight.If only I could stop eating chocolate.0 -
Blimey, a lot of random hate for me on this thread.
No superiority complex here. Regarding the bike comment, I can see how it was misunderstood. I spend a higher proportion of my income on cycling than some people because I value it more highly in terms of importance to me than others may, so yes my training bike is "better" (in spec) than some peoples summer bikes, although of course it's in the eye of the beholder and everyone's ride is their pride and joy. I really couldn't care less what anyone is riding, it's all about the legs.
Now back to this thread:
Maybe I should have said "my speed drops to 1 - 1.5mph in winter for the same power" and omitted the overall speed as it seems to have annoyed some of you that I suggested a base ride is 20mph. I wanted to give it some context that even well trained riders who train all year round with power see the drop off while maintaining the same power.
No need for the hate really.0 -
It didn't annoy me. I was just surprised that you could do a base ride at 20mph, as I see pros on Strava that have slower base rides, because I thought base rides was meant to be ridden at a steady pace to get the miles in.DavidJB wrote:Blimey, a lot of random hate for me on this thread.
No superiority complex here. Regarding the bike comment, I can see how it was misunderstood. I spend a higher proportion of my income on cycling than some people because I value it more highly in terms of importance to me than others may, so yes my training bike is "better" (in spec) than some peoples summer bikes, although of course it's in the eye of the beholder and everyone's ride is their pride and joy. I really couldn't care less what anyone is riding, it's all about the legs.
Now back to this thread:
Maybe I should have said "my speed drops to 1 - 1.5mph in winter for the same power" and omitted the overall speed as it seems to have annoyed some of you that I suggested a base ride is 20mph. I wanted to give it some context that even well trained riders who train all year round with power see the drop off while maintaining the same power.
No need for the hate really.0 -
ForumNewbie wrote:It didn't annoy me. I was just surprised that you could do a base ride at 20mph, as I see pros on Strava that have slower base rides, because I thought base rides was meant to be ridden at a steady pace to get the miles in.
'Steady' doesn't have to mean 'slow'...0 -
wishitwasallflat wrote:Ive never been very fast on a bike. These days as I approach 60 I think I've done well if I return an average of 14mph for a ride. It's the reason I decided I didn't like sportives; it's quite demoralisisng spending an entire day being overtaken. I know I'm slow, but a sportive is a bit like having my nose rubbed in it. All my riding is at my own pace and in glorious isolation
Now that is inspirational, thank you. Im hitting mid 50's and, because of still loosing weight I think, despite getting older, I am still getting a little faster. This summer plus 15.5 was the target now its plus 15.0 but I dont often make it. As each year goes by I am just hoping the joints hold up and I can keep going, For my 50th I bought a garmin and I think my 60th present to myself may be to cancel the average speed display.
That's the first thing I cancelled on my Edge: biggest saboteur of distance riding0 -
Lower winter speeds just a fact of cycling i think.
In the spirit of train heavy-race light i've gone the whole hog this year and put knackered old heavy stock wheels back on the winter trainer, took the slick tyres off in favour of my big bulky armadillos and I resemble a technicolour Michelin man in terms of clothing. If I can get somewhere near to my speeds on the summer steed by March I should be loving it when I finally bring her down from the spare bedroom and fire her up. That's the plan anyway...0 -
No, but I didn't think it meant 'fast'.Imposter wrote:ForumNewbie wrote:It didn't annoy me. I was just surprised that you could do a base ride at 20mph, as I see pros on Strava that have slower base rides, because I thought base rides was meant to be ridden at a steady pace to get the miles in.
'Steady' doesn't have to mean 'slow'...0 -
ForumNewbie wrote:
No, but I didn't think it meant 'fast'.Imposter wrote:ForumNewbie wrote:It didn't annoy me. I was just surprised that you could do a base ride at 20mph, as I see pros on Strava that have slower base rides, because I thought base rides was meant to be ridden at a steady pace to get the miles in.
'Steady' doesn't have to mean 'slow'...
That may be your perception of 'fast', but one person's fast ride is another person's slow/medium ride. I was passed on Sunday morning by an ex-national squad junior - I checked his ride on strava later and he had ridden 70+ miles at just short of 20mph average. That was probably a base ride for him.0 -
ForumNewbie wrote:
It didn't annoy me. I was just surprised that you could do a base ride at 20mph, as I see pros on Strava that have slower base rides, because I thought base rides was meant to be ridden at a steady pace to get the miles in.DavidJB wrote:Blimey, a lot of random hate for me on this thread.
No superiority complex here. Regarding the bike comment, I can see how it was misunderstood. I spend a higher proportion of my income on cycling than some people because I value it more highly in terms of importance to me than others may, so yes my training bike is "better" (in spec) than some peoples summer bikes, although of course it's in the eye of the beholder and everyone's ride is their pride and joy. I really couldn't care less what anyone is riding, it's all about the legs.
Now back to this thread:
Maybe I should have said "my speed drops to 1 - 1.5mph in winter for the same power" and omitted the overall speed as it seems to have annoyed some of you that I suggested a base ride is 20mph. I wanted to give it some context that even well trained riders who train all year round with power see the drop off while maintaining the same power.
No need for the hate really.
Pros often train on mountainous terrain which will bring their average speed down. Berkshire/Wiltshire doesn't really compare to GC or Southern Spain
Base refers to riding in zone 2, average speed is just a by product. In winter I'm around 18.5-19 mph based on conditions, in the pitch black often a bit slower due to free wheeling down hill etc.
Again I wouldn't read too much into average speed, if I lived in north wales it would be a lot lower...I shouldn't have mentioned it!
You're more than welcome to follow me on Strava, although at this time of year I'm a bit of a "Zwanker". https://www.strava.com/athletes/19915810 -
keef66 wrote:Rolf F wrote:Apologies to any who think my speeds pitifully slow! I do have hills to climb and luggage to carry!
And there I was thinking your speeds looked impressive. With hills and luggage even more so! May I be rude and ask how old you are?
Thank you kindly. But so many people so much faster! Age wise, I am somewhat older now than when I last updated on that screenshot (so, at the moment, 49). Holiday project is to update to present from May 16 when I last did it - I'll post that one when it is done. I daren't think what it will look like - stress/fatigue has probably hammered my pace lately (plus the feeling that I probably really just don't care that much). That said, weirdly, yesterday I was back near to form and a couple of minutes quicker on the commute than I've otherwise managed lately. totally random and back on dismal pace today!Faster than a tent.......0 -
homers double wrote:One never asks a lady how old she is.
"He's been a very naughty boy"!Faster than a tent.......0 -
An average speed of 20 mph on a bike over a good distance is fast for most of us, even you, Imposter, I would guess. If DavidJB and the guy that passed you can do that sort of average on a Zone 2 ride, then they must be really fast in the higher zones.Imposter wrote:ForumNewbie wrote:
No, but I didn't think it meant 'fast'.Imposter wrote:ForumNewbie wrote:It didn't annoy me. I was just surprised that you could do a base ride at 20mph, as I see pros on Strava that have slower base rides, because I thought base rides was meant to be ridden at a steady pace to get the miles in.
'Steady' doesn't have to mean 'slow'...
That may be your perception of 'fast', but one person's fast ride is another person's slow/medium ride. I was passed on Sunday morning by an ex-national squad junior - I checked his ride on strava later and he had ridden 70+ miles at just short of 20mph average. That was probably a base ride for him.
I remember a recent thread on here when a beginner in the US was targeting 60 miles in 3 hours on a pan flat route on a solo ride, and most people agreed it was an unrealistic target, as it would be unachievable for most, never mind a beginner. I would suspect only a small percentage of cyclists could do that on a Zone 2 ride.0 -
Fair enough DavidJB, you are obviously fast, even although you may not be in the hilliest part of the country.DavidJB wrote:ForumNewbie wrote:
It didn't annoy me. I was just surprised that you could do a base ride at 20mph, as I see pros on Strava that have slower base rides, because I thought base rides was meant to be ridden at a steady pace to get the miles in.DavidJB wrote:Blimey, a lot of random hate for me on this thread.
No superiority complex here. Regarding the bike comment, I can see how it was misunderstood. I spend a higher proportion of my income on cycling than some people because I value it more highly in terms of importance to me than others may, so yes my training bike is "better" (in spec) than some peoples summer bikes, although of course it's in the eye of the beholder and everyone's ride is their pride and joy. I really couldn't care less what anyone is riding, it's all about the legs.
Now back to this thread:
Maybe I should have said "my speed drops to 1 - 1.5mph in winter for the same power" and omitted the overall speed as it seems to have annoyed some of you that I suggested a base ride is 20mph. I wanted to give it some context that even well trained riders who train all year round with power see the drop off while maintaining the same power.
No need for the hate really.
Pros often train on mountainous terrain which will bring their average speed down. Berkshire/Wiltshire doesn't really compare to GC or Southern Spain
Base refers to riding in zone 2, average speed is just a by product. In winter I'm around 18.5-19 mph based on conditions, in the pitch black often a bit slower due to free wheeling down hill etc.
Again I wouldn't read too much into average speed, if I lived in north wales it would be a lot lower...I shouldn't have mentioned it!
You're more than welcome to follow me on Strava, although at this time of year I'm a bit of a "Zwanker". https://www.strava.com/athletes/1991581
I went into the link to have a look at your Strava rides, but I couldn't see them as it has a 'Request to Follow'. I was only going to look at one of your recent rides out of interest, rather than follow you.0 -
ForumNewbie wrote:An average speed of 20 mph on a bike over a good distance is fast for most of us, even you, Imposter, I would guess.
Sure. Nobody is suggesting any different. I know this is the beginners forum, but that kind of average is achievable with a good level of fitness and training under your belt (and the right road conditions, obviously). I was simply pointing out that there is no need for incredulity.ForumNewbie wrote:If DavidJB and the guy that passed you can do that sort of average on a Zone 2 ride, then they must be really fast in the higher zones.
It doesn't really work like that. Inevitably they are probably faster in higher zones, although not necessarily over the same distance. In any case, I did already point out that the guy that passed me was a pretty handy rider. Fit, trained riders do ride at those sorts of speeds, it's not unusual at all.ForumNewbie wrote:I remember a recent thread on here when a beginner in the US was targeting 60 miles in 3 hours on a pan flat route on a solo ride, and most people agreed it was an unrealistic target, as it would be unachievable for most, never mind a beginner. I would suspect only a small percentage of cyclists could do that on a Zone 2 ride.
Not sure of the thread you mean, but 60 miles in three hours on the flat is eminently achievable for a trained rider. Not sure why anyone would say it isn't.0
