Advice / opinions on hub snapping damaging frame

Barry danger

Ayup guys ... I recently had the flange snap on a 6 month old hub which caused the wheel to dish and dig into my frame before I had chance to stop . This has resulted in the carbon being buzzed away from my chainstay as well as obviously wrecking an almost new wheel . Presumably the wheel ( factory built and never touched ) is still within warranty so I'm hopeful of a replacement ( even though it's never going on my bikes and I'm never touching the brand again ) . My concern is the damage to my frame ...are they liable for it and do I have any chance of them sorting it out / replacment ? Thanks for any replies

diy

Potentially yes, though you must prove your case as you are just outside the limit for the obligation to be the other way around.

The measure of damages for breach of warranty in relation to quality in http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54/section/53 is only a prima facie measure and does not prevent a claimant from claiming any and all loss directly and naturally resulting from the breach.

Barry danger

diy wrote:

Potentially yes, though you must prove your case as you are just outside the limit for the obligation to be the other way around.

The measure of damages for breach of warranty in relation to quality in http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54/section/53 is only a prima facie measure and does not prevent a claimant from claiming any and all loss directly and naturally resulting from the breach.

Thanks for taking the time to reply , much appreciated

bendertherobot

Are the wheels the one that came with the bike?

ugo.santalucia

Photos!!!

fenix

Danger by name, Danger by nature ?

Barry danger

bendertherobot wrote:

Are the wheels the one that came with the bike?

No ,wheels are after market and appear quite popular . A Google search of snapped hubs and it's this brand that keeps coming up through out the years and the one picture I can find from this year looks like my hub and snapped in exactly the same place. It's actually snapped where the spoke is held in and only one but due to the tension this caused my wheel to fold by about 2 inch . There appears to be non in stock across the whole country for most of the year as well and they are the 2016 versions which is kind of suspicious but I lurk forums regularly and have not heard of this happening to anyone else .

ugo.santalucia

Zipp?

Add your photos to the thread in the workshop section

Barry danger

No, there only fulcrum racing 5 db which I bought as I was led to believe they were strong winter work horse type wheels . I'm picking my bike up from work shortly so I'll be able to take photos etc before I ship the wheel back to the shop for them to take a look at

ugo.santalucia

DIsc brake wheel with radial lacing on the disc side?

http://www.fulcrumwheels.com/en/technol ... disc-brake

Fulcrum think they are more clever than anybody else? It's a plain stupid way to lace a disc wheel... the real problem is that there isn't a governing body that decides what should and should not enter the market... I mean there is one, but it knows nothing about bicycle wheels. I am really surpised something so stupid comes from a company that is generally quite sensible

bendertherobot

ugo.santalucia wrote:

DIsc brake wheel with radial lacing on the disc side?

http://www.fulcrumwheels.com/en/technol ... disc-brake

Fulcrum think they are more clever than anybody else? It's a plain stupid way to lace a disc wheel... the real problem is that there isn't a governing body that decides what should and should not enter the market... I mean there is one, but it knows nothing about bicycle wheels. I am really surpised something so stupid comes from a company that is generally quite sensible

Used mine for CX all season, then commuting in the week. Non issue. Sometimes things break. It's not evidence of a pattern. That said, and I wrote this in my review, it does seem to be a left field choice of doing it. There are plenty of Racing DB out there as OEM and racing 5. There's a lot of google results for failed Fulcrum hubs but nothing much out there on the disc ones.

bendertherobot

Barry danger wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Are the wheels the one that came with the bike?

No ,wheels are after market and appear quite popular . A Google search of snapped hubs and it's this brand that keeps coming up through out the years and the one picture I can find from this year looks like my hub and snapped in exactly the same place. It's actually snapped where the spoke is held in and only one but due to the tension this caused my wheel to fold by about 2 inch . There appears to be non in stock across the whole country for most of the year as well and they are the 2016 versions which is kind of suspicious but I lurk forums regularly and have not heard of this happening to anyone else .

Makes it a bit harder. Who sold you the wheels?

ugo.santalucia

bendertherobot wrote:

Used mine for CX all season, then commuting in the week. Non issue. Sometimes things break. It's not evidence of a pattern. That said, and I wrote this in my review, it does seem to be a left field choice of doing it. There are plenty of Racing DB out there as OEM and racing 5. There's a lot of google results for failed Fulcrum hubs but nothing much out there on the disc ones.

It's wrong lacing... it's looking for problems... firstly you don't want to half the number of spokes on the disc side and if you do, then you certainly don't want to arrange them in a radial pattern. Even Zipp got that right...

bendertherobot

It's wrong because you, and admittedly others, say so. Based on physics of course. But, you know, they generally do know what they're doing and sell a few wheels. As I say, there are few reports of this. I was concerned about it. But they do appear bombproof. Which is quite something for something which is 'wrong' and with fewer spokes than ideal.

Barry danger

I got them from merlin , the only place that had them in stock at the time . My dealing with them so far has been good , they say send them back asap . I've just had look at frame for the first time since it happened and it looks as though I managed to stop before it actually went through the carbon , it's just gone through the paint and exposed the carbon I think but I'll be very nervous of using it again but without doubt it's made a mess of it .

bendertherobot

Hang on a sec, they're 2 cross on the (front) disc side aren't they? Is radial AS bad on the back as on the front?

ugo.santalucia

bendertherobot wrote:

It's wrong because you, and admittedly others, say so. Based on physics of course. But, you know, they generally do know what they're doing and sell a few wheels. As I say, there are few reports of this. I was concerned about it. But they do appear bombproof. Which is quite something for something which is 'wrong' and with fewer spokes than ideal.

When you do something "the wrong way" you need to ask yourself

1) why am I doing it the wrong way? I can't really answer for Fulcrum, but I can't see beyond aesthetic reasons

2) What happens if my wrong way of doing things goes wrong? Flange collapse is among the most destructive and potentially dangerous failures... it's on pair with tyre explosion and sudden brake failure... a frame that cracks is a lot less of a problem for instance, yet everybody panics about it and no one worries about buying wheels that are designed with catastrophe in mind.

It is interesting that the front wheel is laced tangentially, as they know very well that a front collapse is even worse than a rear collapse

bendertherobot

Or they've tested the rear destructively and concluded that it's ok.

ugo.santalucia

bendertherobot wrote:

Or they've tested the rear destructively and concluded that it's ok.

Clearly it's not though... as more than one person reported a shredded flange.

You see, cars are tested for millions of miles and still they manage to get the odd bits wrong... with bikes testing is nowhere near as rigorous as there is no credible standard they have to conform to... just look at the seemingly infinite supply of far eastern components invading the Western market, branded and not... of which we know very little if anything at all... (what do we really know about Juin tech to name one?) I think you overestimate the money these companies spend on R & D and testing

bendertherobot

ugo.santalucia wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Or they've tested the rear destructively and concluded that it's ok.

Clearly it's not though... as more than one person reported a shredded flange.

You see, cars are tested for millions of miles and still they manage to get the odd bits wrong... with bikes testing is nowhere near as rigorous as there is no credible standard they have to conform to... just look at the seemingly infinite supply of far eastern components invading the Western market, branded and not... of which we know very little if anything at all... (what do we really know about Juin tech to name one?) I think you overestimate the money these companies spend on R & D and testing

I don't estimate anything. Things go wrong. It's pretty hard to gauge, from the internet, any statistical outcome. Two people reporting something doesn't mean that there's a design error any more than an actual fault. We don't know anything about what companies actually do or spend. There's a body of opinion that radial is plain wrong, and that's fair enough. I do think Campagnolo have given this some thought though, and spent some money on it. Don't forget they deploy this on the stock db, 5 db and the full carbon quattro db. And the latter are very well reviewed indeed.

ugo.santalucia

bendertherobot wrote:

I don't estimate anything. Things go wrong. It's pretty hard to gauge, from the internet, any statistical outcome. Two people reporting something doesn't mean that there's a design error any more than an actual fault. We don't know anything about what companies actually do or spend. There's a body of opinion that radial is plain wrong, and that's fair enough. I do think Campagnolo have given this some thought though, and spent some money on it. Don't forget they deploy this on the stock db, 5 db and the full carbon quattro db. And the latter are very well reviewed indeed.

The same things were said about the Zipp doomed hubs... even their PR person said that fewer than 0.1% of reports made it into such a small percentage of failures... yet it was big enough to abandon the all radial drive side idea the following year (and recall some hubs in the meantime), obviously rebranding the correct lacing as "stiffer", when the previous was supposed to be "stiffer" in the first place.
Moral is what they do and say is not necessarily the right thing and just because Fulcrum do it, doesn't make radial lacing on a stressed side any less wrong. It might work, but why bother? Here we are not talking about salted caramel that work despite sounding wrong, we are talking about something completely pointless and potentially hazardous.
The "they must know what they are doing" attitude is not a good one, as it's been proven over and over than more often than not, they actually don't...

bendertherobot

Thing is, that's true. But it's equally true that, you know, they might well

Moonbiker

No max rider weight listed for theese?

Maybe they are "bombproof" if you are 70kg but not so much for 100kg rider.