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RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 24,308
edited January 2017 in Pro race
Now I know many of you are subscribers to the Cycling Podcast, and I thought the latest friends edition about the future of cycling was particularly interesting. Much to my displeasure I found myself agreeing with much of what Vaughters said.

Anyway, I started this thread to find out some radical ideas to improve cycling. Not the old classics of banning power meters, etc... More progressive ideas.

For example, I was wondering why in the summer months races tend to finish at 5pm local time and not 8pm. There's plenty of light and it makes it available live to people with money. The football Champions League doesn't take place in the afternoon. And it's also good timing for East Coast America (lunch), Russia/Middle East (late night) and Australia (breakfast)
Twitter: @RichN95
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  • "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 52,736 Lives Here
    RichN95 wrote:

    For example, I was wondering why in the summer months races tend to finish at 5pm local time and not 8pm. There's plenty of light and it makes it available live to people with money. The football Champions League doesn't take place in the afternoon. And it's also good timing for East Coast America (lunch), Russia/Middle East (late night) and Australia (breakfast)

    The football doesn't normally travel 100km thereafter or so and have to play the next day, nor would it start at 3, so if you're working on it, you can have your dinner before you start watching it...
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 52,736 Lives Here
    I'm halfway through this.

    I literally can't believe they quoted a fan who's moaning he doesn't give enough of his money to pro road cycling.

    :roll:
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 52,736 Lives Here
    My vision.

    All the n00b fans have f*cked off and it's barely just popular enough to be shown on Eurosport.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 52,736 Lives Here
    Pfft. All this banging on about new fans.

    The steep learning curve is essential to keep the sh!t fans out.

    I don't want new fans ffs.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 52,736 Lives Here
    Vaughters asks "who are the fans following?" and gets all upset because teams fall apart.

    He's asking the wrong question.

    Cycling fans follow the races as much as the riders.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 52,736 Lives Here
    I tune in for certain races, not for certain riders.

    It's relatively unlikely I'll make an effort to watch Boonen in the Tour of Belgium, and I'm about as hardcore a cycling and Boonen fan there is.
  • r0bhr0bh Posts: 1,448
    Is it another hour of blowing smoke up Vaughters' ar$e like the last regular episode was?
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 52,736 Lives Here
    It's basically a bunch of people pitching their own self interested business ideas.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 52,736 Lives Here
    Agent wants the same revenue for a quarter of the riders.

    Team owner wants a model so he can sell his team to PE.

    Non TdF race owner wants bigger riders in his race.

    Yawn yawn yawn.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 9,162
    Pfft. All this banging on about new fans.

    The steep learning curve is essential to keep the sh!t fans out.

    I don't want new fans ffs.

    Snob!

    Unfortunately if you get your wish that means you'll also have to put up with teams folding and there being no money in the sport - who's going to sponsor a sport which doesn't attract fans?
  • There seems to be a big push to make the sport more appealing to the newby fans rather than just build on what is already a strong sport. Unfortunately I have spent time with some people from Sky and they are forever banging on about making the sport more appealing, filling the screens with data and also that toss. We already have a decent calendar of races, the commentary needs improvement but having a load of spurious power and heart rate data on the screen won't add anything as far as I can tell. And nor will changing the racing around. The sport has a strong following but it's being changed to suit the newbys rather than educate them into what the sport actually is.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 52,736 Lives Here
    bobmcstuff wrote:

    Unfortunately if you get your wish that means you'll also have to put up with teams folding and there being no money in the sport - who's going to sponsor a sport which doesn't attract fans?

    That's been going on since I started watching almost 20 years ago, and they had 2 gigantic doping scandals meanwhile.

    And yet, pay for the top riders is higher than its ever been.

    All the races that have folded are races I didn't watch.

    *shrugs*

    It's sad cycling isn't more popular in traditional heartlands like Italy and France, but the solution isn't the Americanisation of sport.

    The podcast is a bunch of people moaning they don't make enough money getting into cycling.

    For me, that was always kinda the point.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 9,162
    There seems to be a big push to make the sport more appealing to the newby fans rather than just build on what is already a strong sport. Unfortunately I have spent time with some people from Sky and they are forever banging on about making the sport more appealing, filling the screens with data and also that toss. We already have a decent calendar of races, the commentary needs improvement but having a load of spurious power and heart rate data on the screen won't add anything as far as I can tell. And nor will changing the racing around. The sport has a strong following but it's being changed to suit the newbys rather than educate them into what the sport actually is.

    if anything adding HR and power data will probably just make it less involving to newbie fans - since you need some sort of background info to peg the power numbers to, otherwise it may as well be a random number.

    I agree commentary improvement would be a great help, because as a new viewer you often tune into a race to see what is apparently nothing happening and turn over, a better description of why things are happening and some better tactical analysis during the race might help.

    I actually think the ITV highlights packages are generally good in this regard - as they actually explain the day's events (and cut out the "boring" stuff!). Whereas the Eurosport highlights are really poor, they just show you the start, maybe some intermediate sprints then the final 25km. I've watched stages live and then been amazed that they've missed out the most interesting parts of the race in the highlights, whereas ITV in general do a better job (obviously they're still not perfect and they're limited by the time slot).

    Realistically most casual fans are going to watch races by highlights (especially during the week) so having decent, entertaining highlights packages is really important.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 9,162
    bobmcstuff wrote:

    Unfortunately if you get your wish that means you'll also have to put up with teams folding and there being no money in the sport - who's going to sponsor a sport which doesn't attract fans?

    That's been going on since I started watching almost 20 years ago, and they had 2 gigantic doping scandals meanwhile.

    And yet, pay for the top riders is higher than its ever been.

    All the races that have folded are races I didn't watch.

    *shrugs*

    It's sad cycling isn't more popular in traditional heartlands like Italy and France, but the solution isn't the Americanisation of sport.

    The podcast is a bunch of people moaning they don't make enough money getting into cycling.

    For me, that was always kinda the point.

    Well when you put it like that it sounds more reasonable.

    It's this "my appreciation of the sport is better than yours" attitude which annoys me (very mildly to be fair).
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 52,736 Lives Here
    New fans come at the sport from such a fundamentally different angle to me, I can't get on board with them.

    I think, and I would think given I have watched it for longer, they don't get it, fundamentally.

    I'm sure they think the same of me, but I have the advantage of a) having watched it for longer and b) have a broader perspective from nations where cycling is part of the furniture.

    So for those two reasons, yes, I do feel that my appreciation is better than theirs.

    I'm sure they'll get over it.
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 6,338

    Just another race in a packed calendar. Velon are desperate to innovate because they need something they can own - others got in first inventing classics and grand tours. The sport doesn't need change, Velon need change because they don't have much of a stake in the status quo.

    Time will tell but I doubt the team angle velon are pushing has wings. Would I watch this team pursuit style race...yes to see what it was about...then probably not if it is as exciting as a TTT.

    As for money in the sport, I don't really care, the money isn't coming my way, indirectly it may even be coming out of my pocket.
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 9,162
    New fans come at the sport from such a fundamentally different angle to me, I can't get on board with them.

    I think, and I would think given I have watched it for longer, they don't get it, fundamentally.

    I'm sure they think the same of me, but I have the advantage of a) having watched it for longer and b) have a broader perspective from nations where cycling is part of the furniture.

    So for those two reasons, yes, I do feel that my appreciation is better than theirs.

    I'm sure they'll get over it.

    Hipster ;)

    I didn't realise there was such a thing as an objective measure of quality of appreciation to be honest.

    And yes I am sure they won't be particularly bothered either way, given the average Tour-only viewer is unlikely to frequent Pro Race. But then again, when n00bs do venture in around July I'm not sure telling them their appreciation of cycling is worthless is the best way to get them interested in other races.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 52,736 Lives Here
    Depends if your objective is to get them interested or not.
  • The observations such as having the races finish later are good in theory, but in reality in europe there will be a rush hour home from work to contend with. There is usually a reason that things happen the way they do. The way the english speaking cycling media and teams seem to look down on the european race organisers and teams as if they are morons and the way that they do things is wrong is just patronising b/s. The problem with guys like Friebe, Moore and to a lesser extent Birnie, is that they think they have nothing to learn and that we should all bow down to their superior knowledge. Although Moore has gone awfully quiet since the fancy bears thing kicked off, possible as it undermines his time spent 'embedded' with the team and has exposed him for what he is, a fan with a type writer. Anyhow, I digress. Until someone can tell me what is wrong with the way the sport is now, I fail to see why it needs to be 'changed.'
  • bompingtonbompington Posts: 7,639
    Depends if your objective is to get them interested or not.
    So this thread was an attempt to put them off? That explains a lot.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 52,736 Lives Here
    Ah the innocence of youth
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 24,308
    The observations such as having the races finish later are good in theory, but in reality in europe there will be a rush hour home from work to contend with. There is usually a reason that things happen the way they do.
    I would suggest that the reason that races finish at 4-5pm is because the races have almost all been started and run by newspapers as a promotional tool, and they wanted enough time to produce sufficient copy for the following day's edition. But it's the digital age now. No-one waits until the next day to read 'match reports' of a race they can watch on demand.

    As for rush hour. I would have thought that having the finish during rush hour would cause the most disruption. The Tour of Britain used to finish at about 2pm for this reason (can't remember if it still does)
    Although Moore has gone awfully quiet since the fancy bears thing kicked off, possible as it undermines his time spent 'embedded' with the team and has exposed him for what he is, a fan with a type writer.
    In his defence he was the journalist who reported exactly what TUEs Froome had had long before Fancy Bears (because he asked him) and his time 'embedded' predated Wiggins's (his book is about Sky's first year). It was Birnie that was following Sky around at the Criterium du Jiffy Bag.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • I'm assuming that the european rush hour is later than it is here but good point about the press deadlines, I would guess that every race regardless of who organised it would want to have their results in the following days papers.

    CBF to go on about Moore, it'll just disrupt the thread. His selective myopia is entertaining at least though.
  • I'm assuming that the european rush hour is later than it is here but good point about the press deadlines, I would guess that every race regardless of who organised it would want to have their results in the following days papers.

    CBF to go on about Moore, it'll just disrupt the thread. His selective myopia is entertaining at least though.


    Aye, I cant and wont disagree with the selective myopia comment
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 24,308
    I'm assuming that the european rush hour is later than it is here but good point about the press deadlines, I would guess that every race regardless of who organised it would want to have their results in the following days papers.

    CBF to go on about Moore, it'll just disrupt the thread. His selective myopia is entertaining at least though.


    Aye, I cant and wont disagree with the selective myopia comment
    May he (or she) who is without sin cast the first stone. Everyone is selectively myopic.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 52,736 Lives Here
    Indeed Rich.

    FILE+In+Profile+Chris+Froome+hiZtJzO7eUox.jpg
  • RichN95 wrote:
    I'm assuming that the european rush hour is later than it is here but good point about the press deadlines, I would guess that every race regardless of who organised it would want to have their results in the following days papers.

    CBF to go on about Moore, it'll just disrupt the thread. His selective myopia is entertaining at least though.


    Aye, I cant and wont disagree with the selective myopia comment
    May he (or she) who is without sin cast the first stone. Everyone is selectively myopic.


    And I will continue to post my views. And Moore will continue to do that he does. Soooo verry sorry about that, Rich
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 24,308
    You do all understand that 'everyone' includes myself, don't you? One thing I've never lacked is self-awareness.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 52,736 Lives Here
    Bahahahahahahahahahahaha
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