MBbearings. Trek Remedy frame bearings.

remedy_7

I have a Trek Remedy 7. I think it is a 2010 model, as that is when I bought it (August). But it had a discount so it might be from the year before. A google images search for 2010 comes up with my bike more than 2009 or 2011. Grey frame, black/grey swing arm rear. X9 rear. Avid 5 brakes. I think the 2011 model came with X5 rear and Avid 3.

I need to change the frame/swing arm bearings.

Has anyone used MB bearing uk? Any other companies?

It would be good to get an original set from Trek. Total 10 bearings. 8 are standard type, available anywhere. But two have a wider inner face. So those two need to be exact.

Only 1 standard size bearing has failed but I will change the lot.

Cheers for any replies.

remedy_7

I haven't found the bearings with the wider innner face yet.

But managed to track down the other bearings. Enduro 6900 LLB.

What I have learned so far -
All bearings have 2 codes on them.
1st - numbers. This is a code which references to the bearing size. Same all over the world regardless of manufacturer. (SKF put an extra number in for some reason). Mine is 6900. All 6900 bearings are 22mm x 10mm x 6mm. (D x d x .
2nd - letters. This refers to the type of seal or lack of. Rubber. Plastic. High temp. None. etc. Not sure what LLB stands for.

Bearings can be rated for rotational speed or angular force/turn/load, which is what a swing arm needs.

This means that if you can see the code, then any manufacturer will do.

I just need to work out if that also applies to the 2 bearings with the wider inner face.

remedy_7

Sorry. Should have said - I am still learning, so please correct me if I am wrong on anything.

swod1

Pop the bearings out and take to a local bearing supplier should get what you need.

The Rookie

All that you have said so far is correct.

With swing arm bearings it's a good idea to get 'enduro' bearings as they are cageless with more balls, not suitable for high speed rotation, but better suited to a swing arm as they have more balls to resist the loads they see.

rockmonkeysc

I wouldn't use MB bearings. They take standard bearings, tale out the seals, over fill them with grease and refit the seals.
Over greased bearings are not good and interfering with the seals is a bad thing.
Just pop out your bearings, take them to a local bearing shop and replace them with Enduro (or Maxx) for the main pivots and Koyo or SKF or NSK for the others.
When you fit them, just use a light smear of grease to help push them in and don't put loads of grease around them, it'll just attract dirt and turn in to a grinding paste.

JGTR

2 schools of thought on regreasing bearings - some say don't do it, others swear by it. I've started doing it on recommendation of a friend who races, she services her bearings by repacking them with grease. I've also packed my BB bearings as the last set only lasted 6 months, will be interesting to see if packing them makes them last any longer. When I serviced my frame bearings I found a lot were dry so hopefully I've managed to save them. They get exposed to a lot of water and moisture so I feel more benefits in packing them out and servicing rather than leaving them.

The Rookie

Anyone who races (although of course 'a friend who races' is in itself meaningless without some notion of ability of competance) would be mad to add extra drag to bearings by adding grease.

'Water and moisture', so erm, 'water and water' then?

If water is getting in the bearing won't last very long at all, in which case the amount of grease present is pretty irrelevant as it won't be there long.

And of course one person's experience based on a small sample is just noise, you can't possible get enough resulted to make it in any way statistically relevant (accurate).

JGTR

And of course one person's experience based on a small sample is just noise

Oh the irony

Like I said, 2 trains of thought, pros and cons for both, do it the way you prefer. I serviced my bearings and when I took he covers off they were in obvious need of grease.

The Rookie

What is an obvious need of grease?

You understand what the grease is for?

JGTR

The Rookie wrote:

What is an obvious need of grease?

You understand what the grease is for?

Yes, from Wikipedia:

Greases are applied to mechanisms that can only be lubricated infrequently and where a lubricating oil would not stay in position. They also act as sealants to prevent ingress of water and incompressible materials.

rockmonkeysc

Too much grease in a bearing is counter productive and will increase drag. It will also increase pressure on the seals leading to premature seal failure.
Excess grease can also result in tunnelling, an effect where the balls create a tunnel through the grease and effectively allows the balls to run dry. The more grease you have, the more likely this is.
This is from a regular racer (completely irrelevant) and mechanical engineer who has designed grease filled gear boxes and done some quite detailed bearing durability studies for aggregate process machinery (not completely irrelevant)

JGTR

On a constantly rotating bearing at high RPMs you are correct, excessive grease can cause problems. But on a bike frame where bearings are not subjected to constant rotation and water ingress is probably the biggest issue, packing with grease is my preferred option. Much like boat/jet ski trailers.

The Rookie

The bearings on an MTB don't get fully immersed like boat trailer wheels!

rockmonkeysc

Even in part turn applications grease tunnelling is an issue with excessive grease.
Any more than a thin film of grease does absolutely nothing.
The only reasons any component is packed with grease is that it's either serviceable and you expect to lose grease over time (car wheel bearings) or the grease is used as a medium for thermal control (gearboxes).
Sealed bearings are not serviceable items. The seals are designed to never be removed and doing so will compromise their durability. They also have a specific volume of lubricant which the manufacturer has spent a lot of time and money getting right.
There is nothing special about bicycle suspension as a bearing application, bearings are designed for just this sort of use. Maxx bearings are designed specifically for low speed, mid to high load part turn applications.
But if you know better than a manufacturer who has spent many millions on product development and used the knowledge of many highly qualified engineers and the experience of decades of products then you are a genius and go ahead.

JGTR

The only reasons any component is packed with grease is that it's either serviceable and you expect to lose grease over time (car wheel bearings)

Or act as sealants to prevent ingress of water and incompressible materials.

Manufacturers can't account for every application that their bearings could be used for and it's not uncommon for parts to be modified to suit specific applications such as winter MTB riding where water ingress can be an issue.

JGTR

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/w ... ngs-18623/

rockmonkeysc

JGTR wrote:

The only reasons any component is packed with grease is that it's either serviceable and you expect to lose grease over time (car wheel bearings)

Or act as sealants to prevent ingress of water and incompressible materials.

Firstly, anything other than gasses is incompressible, including grease.
Secondly, you cannot use grease to seal against water. It doesn't work.
Thirdly, I've done some very scientific trials of durability of bearings in aggregate processing plant (bearings are the biggest maintenance cost and cause of down time in quarries) . They were in a very aggressive wet and gritty environment. I had bearings running at various speeds and loads with a mix of part and full turn applications. All had vibration sensors and I had 25 samples in each operating condition (800 total) .
The best thing you can do is buy the right bearings for the right job. Maxx bearings for part turn and good quality caged bearings for full turn. Sealed bearings last better than serviceable in sealed housings packed with grease and seals are best not touched or removed and replaced.

rockmonkeysc

JGTR wrote:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/workshop-servicing-your-bearings-18623/

That's not great advice about greasing sealed bearings. Just because it's an article on the Internet doesn't make it right.

JGTR

You're not really listening.....you may have read the book and got the T-shirt for playing with bearings but many people do service bearings with positive results. I've managed to extend the life of my BB bearings by adding extra grease. I've also taken frame bearings that were dry and contaminated, cleaned, regreased them and extended their life. Like I said, 2 trains of thought, you do it the way you prefer.

You also need to go and edit the Wikipedia page on bearings if you are such and expert as that's where I got the info about incompressible solids and water.

rockmonkeysc

Ah yes, Wikipedia, the source of absolute accuracy.
All liquids and solids are incompressible, even substances like rubber which may seem compressible are not. You cannot apply pressure to reduce their total volume.
Only gasses are compressible, which is why air springs work.
Greasing a siezed or dry bearing is not extending it's life, it's just masking the fact that it's worn by temporarily making it feel smoother.

The Rookie

Agreed, once a bearing is worn, its life is over, adding grease so you can keep using a knackered bearing doesn't extend its life, it just means its not as gritty while you are waiting for then new set to arrive.

A common issue with overfilled bearings is blowing out the seal when they get hot!

rockmonkeysc

The old man above is correct.
Also an engineer I believe and therefore an expert. Of course, in this country we don't like the opinions of experts (must not go in to political rant).

The Rookie

I am an engineer, but will admit to no specialist (as in its not my trade) knowledge of bearings (or at least those which don't rely on hydrodynamics).

As for being old - age is a state of mind and while I'm not as 'nutty' as you, I don't think throwing myself down narrow gravel/rocky/muddy tracks at 30+mph puts me into the 'thinking I'm old' category!

rockmonkeysc

You're only as old as you feel.
I've smashed my sorry carcass it to lots of trees and rocks so I feel a lot older than I am. I've also reached that point where I regularly walk in to a room and forget why I'm there.

JGTR

Ah yes, Wikipedia, the source of absolute accuracy.

Same could be said for individuals on forums

Bearings that are not worn but are showing signs of contamination etc will benefit from a clean and regrease which will extend their life, same as old style headset bearings and cup/come wheel bearings.

rockmonkeysc

JGTR wrote:

Ah yes, Wikipedia, the source of absolute accuracy.

Same could be said for individuals on forums

Bearings that are not worn but are showing signs of contamination etc will benefit from a clean and regrease which will extend their life, same as old style headset bearings and cup/come wheel bearings.

If they're contaminated then the seals are dead.
Cup and cone or other bearings with non integral seals are designed to be serviceable and have either reusable or replaceable seals.
Sealed cartridge bearings don't have reusable seals.

cooldad

May I suggest handbags at dawn?

rockmonkeysc

cooldad wrote:

May I suggest handbags at dawn?

I'll fill mine with ball bearings.

The Rookie

I'll use the races.....

rockmonkeysc

The Rookie wrote:

I'll use the races.....

You'll get more weight in your handbag if you fill it with ball bearings. Less empty space, more dense innit