1x tubs or multi clinchers

Banno

Hi all,

I've just bought a nice ex-Fidea team Ridley without wheels. So I need some.

I don't know whether I should buy one really good set of clincher wheels with a choice of Challenge Open clincher tyres (tubed) that can be easily swapped depending on conditions, or a cheap pair of clinchers for training and a nice pair of tubular wheels with just one tubular tyre choice for the years racing.

One thing I like about the thought of tubs is being able to put a little sealant in.

I'm a roadie and am concerned that I may find the super low pressures of tubs a little disconcerting. I wonder if I'll feel a bit more at home on the slightly higher pressures of clinchers.
What are your thoughts please?

Thanks

imposter2.0

My thoughts are that depending where you live, the season may well be over within the next 2-3 weeks, so unless you buy a set of wheels asap there will be no events left to enter. I suspect most here are roadies in the summer and CXers in the winter, so I don't see why being a roadie would be an issue in selecting tubs. A lot of racers ride tubs in road events in any case.

Banno

Sorry I'm planning for next year already, so am thinking of a full seasons useage.

Monty Dog

The 'slightly higher pressure' or clinchers means less grip, which is often the difference between getting around the corner, skidding or crashing. Tubeless tyres are getting better, but they're not as reliable as tubs

Banno

Monty Dog wrote:

The 'slightly higher pressure' or clinchers means less grip, which is often the difference between getting around the corner, skidding or crashing. Tubeless tyres are getting better, but they're not as reliable as tubs

Would you say that those pressures possible in just one set of tubs, is better than different tread choices available in a few different sets of clinchers?

Jterrier

I have the same dilemma at mo and have decided to go for a set of tubeless clincher wheels, but to invest in 2 sets of challenge open tubs with latex inner tubes (a fast rolling set and a mud set). That way i have the ease of changing quickly and in the future when someone does a decent tubeless tan walled super pliant cx tire i can fit those.

andyp

Banno wrote:

Would you say that those pressures possible in just one set of tubs, is better than different tread choices available in a few different sets of clinchers?

Yes. A decent all rounder, like the Challenge Grifo or Fango, can work in a wide range of conditions, and only really struggles in deep, deep mud and even then, it'll do a pretty good job if you drop the pressure low enough.

Banno

Jterrier wrote:

I have the same dilemma at mo and have decided to go for a set of tubeless clincher wheels, but to invest in 2 sets of challenge open tubs with latex inner tubes (a fast rolling set and a mud set). That way i have the ease of changing quickly and in the future when someone does a decent tubeless tan walled super pliant cx tire i can fit those.

Good idea!

Banno

andyp wrote:

Yes. A decent all rounder, like the Challenge Grifo or Fango, can work in a wide range of conditions, and only really struggles in deep, deep mud and even then, it'll do a pretty good job if you drop the pressure low enough.

Thanks for the input.
I had definitely thought about Challenge, especially since their tubulars aren't much different in price to their Open clinchers.
I had also thought about a pair of Grifo's, or maybe a pair of Limus', or maybe a Limus front and Grifo rear. A course that has deep mud, won't have it the whole way round anyway.

cycleclinic

Tubeless tyres can be as reliable as tubs. It is all down to the tyre picked and the fit to the rim. I have riders on the a certain CX tyre and they report good results.

Low pressures are essential. 30 psi is about as much as you want to run for CX. Good tubs will allow this and so will good tubeless tyres.

trek_dan

Early season I just use clinchers when the ground is hard, not that much advantage using tubs on the 'grass crit' type races although tubs do noticeably smooth bumps out even ran at high pressure. The last few weeks I've been using Fangos for all conditions. Agree with guy above one set of Griffos/Fangos should see you through most conditions.

Chris James

thecycleclinic wrote:

Low pressures are essential. 30 psi is about as much as you want to run for CX. Good tubs will allow this and so will good tubeless tyres.

I was running PDX clinchers at 27 psi at the weekend. The course had a lot of tree roots and some buried bricks. At one point I did hit the rim side, but the tyre didn't puncture. My wife was on Michelin mud2s at around 30psi and had no grip problems or punctures.

I suppose it depends on how seriously you plan on taking things. If you have the legs to win and want to be at the sharp end of the race then tubs are a big advantage, although this time of year a pit bike is the biggest advantage you can have.

Most of the riders around me are on one bike running clinchers though - many of them are also on PDXs by the look of it.

If you do go for a single set of tubs then it is probably a difficult choice what to go for. You get the most use out of an intermediate type tyre (e.g. grifo), but the low pressure capabilities of tubs really come into their own in sloppy conditions when a grifo probably won't cut it. You can race most of the back end of the season on mud tyres, but you will be giving away speed on the early season grassy races.

If it is your first experience of cross racing then I would get some clinchers as they are useful for training in any case, and you can experiment with different clincher patterns to see what tyres you like. bear in mind you can have a more aggressive tyre up front (i.e. don't need to run them as pairs)

Banno

Chris James wrote:

Most of the riders around me are on one bike running clinchers though - many of them are also on PDXs by the look of it.

If it is your first experience of cross racing then I would get some clinchers as they are useful for training in any case, and you can experiment with different clincher patterns to see what tyres you like. bear in mind you can have a more aggressive tyre up front (i.e. don't need to run them as pairs)

Thanks very much
I certainly won't be mixing it up at the sharp end, more just trying to "enjoy" it as much as possible. So don't know if tubulars will be a bit "All the gear..." for an also ran like me.

I was having a chat with someone at Ipswich yesterday at the Nationals who said that Challenge open tubulars with latex tubes gave him a great ride and a chance to swap tyres. Especially as yesterday was very dry with lots of grass and tarmac and his mud tyres would be huge overkill.

Mixing treads is something we used to do when racing MTB's with good results.

trek_dan

Tubs don't need to be expensive. My 'backup' set is based on Carbotech K22's which are £80 from Merlin. At the moment though I'd get the Superstar Pave tubs while they are still 30% off. Not got a set myself but heard really good reports. Edit: this advice may not apply if using disc brakes

VamP

trek_dan wrote:

Tubs don't need to be expensive. My 'backup' set is based on Carbotech K22's which are £80 from Merlin. At the moment though I'd get the Superstar Pave tubs while they are still 30% off. Not got a set myself but heard really good reports. Edit: this advice may not apply if using disc brakes

I have both the K22 and the Paves. The paves are lovely. You can specify disc hubs in the Superstar wheel builder app.

The K22 as you say are perfectly functional. And better than expensive clincher wheels on a muddy day.

I'd go with 1x tubs if I was the OP - nothing else comes close on muddy days. If you want versatility, use clinchers/tubeless in first half of season and mud tubs in second half.

Depending on where in the country you are, you might be better off with muds as your only tubs anyway. You certainly gain more from traction on a muddy day, than you get out of (very slightly) reduced rolling resistance on a fast day.

Banno

On a side note, my bike has canti brakes so would you suggest carbon or alloy wheels?
Carbon does look sexy!!! 8)
But would a carbon brake track last long?

trek_dan

Carbon brake tracks last forever, the pads wear out a lot faster though. Braking is a little sharper on alloy.

Banno

Ah thanks.
I was worried that mud could create and paste and wear it away immediately.
I'm very tempted to go carbon.

VamP

I have destroyed carbon wheels before, when my brake pads wore away in the course of a race to leave the pad holders in contact with the rim. Pad wear can be very rapid in certain types of mud so it is something to watch out for. I now keep file treads and intermediates on carbon rims, and mud tyres on alloy.

stumpmagnet

owen have a look at Hunts wheels

stumpmagnet

or pinch your boys 38 carbons

Banno

Haha was tempted by some Zuus for this! ;-)

Flexisurfer

I race on a pair of good light alloy wheels and Challenge Open Pro Limus tyres with the latex tubes, i've run these all season even on the faster early season courses. The pressure you run is key, I run about 30psi on the faster courses and the lowest I've been this season so far is 22 and I weigh 70kgs. I don't feel the Limus holds me back on dry races, it can be quite fast if you get the pressures right, I have thought about tubs but would rather go for a pair of Chicanes in the Open Pro than have the faff of changing tubs during the week because the weather changes.

othello

Flexisurfer wrote:

I race on a pair of good light alloy wheels and Challenge Open Pro Limus tyres with the latex tubes, i've run these all season even on the faster early season courses. The pressure you run is key, I run about 30psi on the faster courses and the lowest I've been this season so far is 22 and I weigh 70kgs. I don't feel the Limus holds me back on dry races, it can be quite fast if you get the pressures right, I have thought about tubs but would rather go for a pair of Chicanes in the Open Pro than have the faff of changing tubs during the week because the weather changes.

You have done well to run Limus all year round, even on the hard fast courses as everyone I have spoken to said they are for mud/wet/mucky races! I was recommended Baby Limus as a more year round tyre, especially if you can only afford one good set.