Riding fixed
Comments
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Right - another question for those in the know.
Planning to throw my Spinergys on it once I've mastered the fixed bit/not died/sold the bike, however the rear is a freewheel.
To change this to a fixed, I presume I just need to unbolt the freewheel from the hub and bolt on a fixed wheel (or whatever the correct name for it is).
Are these universal or will I have to spend days trawling the net?
Many thanks for all your help againPostby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
shamrock134 wrote:I disagree that riding single-speed is like riding your road bike without changing gear.
I don't know why you would disagree with that, because trivially, that is exactly what it is.0 -
The issue with using a fixed sprocket on a standard freewheel thread is that there is nothing to stop the sprocket from unscrewing when you apply pressure through the pedals in a backwards direction. Clearly this might cause a slight inconvenience to say the least. With a specific fixed hub there are two threads. The larger one allows you to screw the fixed sprocket on and the second smaller thread is for a lockring which is reverse threaded. The sprocket is held in place by the lockring and any amount of back pedalling shouldn't be able to unscrew it.
I have in the past used an old bottom bracket lockring from an old style square taper BB on a standard freewheel to good effect as the thread is the same. However, be aware that as this lockring uses a thread which is the same direction as the sprocket there is a chance that it could unscrew, although that never happened to me.0 -
Matthewfalle wrote:
Planning to throw my Spinergys on it once I've mastered the fixed bit/not died/sold the bike, however the rear is a freewheel.
To change this to a fixed, I presume I just need to unbolt the freewheel from the hub and bolt on a fixed wheel (or whatever the correct name for it is).
Are these universal or will I have to spend days trawling the net?
If I've understood your question....
You CAN build a fixed-gear rear wheel around a hub designed for a freewheel cassette, but it is perhaps not the best way to approach the issue.
If you are talking about replacing the wheels on your OTS fixie with some posher ones you have lying around, then by all means have a pop at it, but whilst the front will just pop right in and look lovely and do what it needs to do, the rear will give you more grief than the outlay of a few quid for a nice wheel on a hub which will take a fixed-gear sprocket with no fooling around.
As speeds increase, you will find yourself wanting to believe that the rear wheel and drivetrain of your fixie will retain their physical integrity.... this belief is easier to hold onto when the rear wheel has been built from the outset for the purpose of transmitting pedal power through a single fixed or freewheel cog.
You can get hold of a wheel (fairly easily) built or OTS to almost any specification and for a wide range of prices.
I'd recommend a flip-flop hub. I have one flip-flop set up fixed and freewheel - and another that has a 19-tooth fixed one side and a 20-tooth the other. Completely pointless, but it amuses me.
There is a joy to riding a singlespeed bike which is quite different to that of keeping a geared bike in just one gear. Quite why, I do not know, but it feels very different.
As to fixed, that is different again. If you've ever rumpled down the road on a big, lazy Guzzi and shut the throttle, you'll know the feeling of the dropping revs slowing the bike gently into a bend. The feeling on a fixed-gear bike when you stop pushing before braking is the same.... Like a sort of silent engine-braking....
But I'm getting carried away. Do by all means try to build a dished freewheel hub into a fixed hub, but you may be happier if you just get yourself a wheel for that job.0 -
Debeli wrote:Matthewfalle wrote:
Planning to throw my Spinergys on it once I've mastered the fixed bit/not died/sold the bike, however the rear is a freewheel.
To change this to a fixed, I presume I just need to unbolt the freewheel from the hub and bolt on a fixed wheel (or whatever the correct name for it is).
Are these universal or will I have to spend days trawling the net?
If I've understood your question....
You CAN build a fixed-gear rear wheel around a hub designed for a freewheel cassette, but it is perhaps not the best way to approach the issue.
If you are talking about replacing the wheels on your OTS fixie with some posher ones you have lying around, then by all means have a pop at it, but whilst the front will just pop right in and look lovely and do what it needs to do, the rear will give you more grief than the outlay of a few quid for a nice wheel on a hub which will take a fixed-gear sprocket with no fooling around.
As speeds increase, you will find yourself wanting to believe that the rear wheel and drivetrain of your fixie will retain their physical integrity.... this belief is easier to hold onto when the rear wheel has been built from the outset for the purpose of transmitting pedal power through a single fixed or freewheel cog.
You can get hold of a wheel (fairly easily) built or OTS to almost any specification and for a wide range of prices.
I'd recommend a flip-flop hub. I have one flip-flop set up fixed and freewheel - and another that has a 19-tooth fixed one side and a 20-tooth the other. Completely pointless, but it amuses me.
There is a joy to riding a singlespeed bike which is quite different to that of keeping a geared bike in just one gear. Quite why, I do not know, but it feels very different.
As to fixed, that is different again. If you've ever rumpled down the road on a big, lazy Guzzi and shut the throttle, you'll know the feeling of the dropping revs slowing the bike gently into a bend. The feeling on a fixed-gear bike when you stop pushing before braking is the same.... Like a sort of silent engine-braking....
But I'm getting carried away. Do by all means try to build a dished freewheel hub into a fixed hub, but you may be happier if you just get yourself a wheel for that job.
And that has just sold the whole shebang to me - thank you very much. Right, time to raid the bambini's college funds for a well smart pukka rear wheel.
Nice Guzzi bit as well, although in my opinion you can't beat a tuned perfectly set up RGV
Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
Imposter wrote:shamrock134 wrote:I disagree that riding single-speed is like riding your road bike without changing gear.
I don't know why you would disagree with that, because trivially, that is exactly what it is.
It doesn't feel the same at all. Single-speed is more energy efficient than riding a geared bike stuck in one gear and that is perceptible.
Also I challenge a rider with gears available not to change gear when they hit an incline or a slight headwind. :P0 -
Imposter wrote:shamrock134 wrote:I disagree that riding single-speed is like riding your road bike without changing gear.
I don't know why you would disagree with that, because trivially, that is exactly what it is.
Imposter - I assume you have never ridden single free - the whole feel of the drive is very different to having a derailleur.
I ride 70 or 73" all year round as it definitely helps develop power (for time trials). As my fitness fluctuates I change the gear by 3 inches. It's always a nice feeling after a training block when the gear starts to feel too easy and I add a bigger chainring (eg 50 --> 53) or smaller rear cog (eg 17 --> 16) . I don't like fixed as I don't feel comfortable stopping with the pedals in a the 'wrong' part of the rotation and when in a group where I find that the speed up a hill is dropping to a point where it becomes difficult to turn the gear - bad enough on free - a nightmare on fixed.0 -
stevewj wrote:Imposter wrote:shamrock134 wrote:I disagree that riding single-speed is like riding your road bike without changing gear.
I don't know why you would disagree with that, because trivially, that is exactly what it is.
Imposter - I assume you have never ridden single free - the whole feel of the drive is very different to having a derailleur.
Sure, the 'feel' is different - until you get used to it - and then it feels exactly the same, but so what. You will still go exactly the same speed for the same cadence on s/s or freewheel, given the same gear rollout.0 -
Imposter wrote:Sure, the 'feel' is different - until you get used to it - and then it feels exactly the same, but so what. You will still go exactly the same speed for the same cadence on s/s or freewheel, given the same gear rollout.
This discussion could go on and on..... but I feel there is a need to respond to this notion that it is (or feels) exactly the same.
I love gears, freewheel singlespeed and fixed with equal.... errr.... love.
But a ride on any one of the three is not at all like a ride on any of the other two.... even if every other aspect and element of the technical spec and geometry of the bikes is the same.
It is not a big deal, but they really are quite different.
1. With a single chainring and a single sprocket, your chain is always (ALWAYS) perfectly in line. Not close or nearly or pretty-much in line, but yummy-yummy sweetly and silently in line. That aspect alone has its own little zizz of pleasure.
2. Then there is the reality (which presents itself regularly on any ride) that other ratios are not an option. Fixed or singlespeed, a looming climb concentrates the mind in a way that it will not on a modern, geared bicycle.
I do not say that one or another drivetrain is superior or inferior... I love swapping cogs. But the argument that riding freewheel singlespeed is the same as not chopping cogs on a geared bike does not match the experience of almost every rider who has gone further than once round the block on both types.
To stay with my earlier motorcycle imagery, A Moto Guzzi Le Mans, a Ducati 900 SS and a Laverda 750 are all twin-cylinder fourstroke sports motorcycles of the 1970s.... All have a 5-speed 'box with not-massively-dissimilar ratios.... but none changes gear, rides or really does anything in any way like either of the others....
The motorcycles, the drivetrains and many other aspects of things mechanical is just different monkeys... and as different monkeys they behaves different.
I will allow you the observation that they may (the bicycle drivetrains) be identical with regard to the chosen ratio.... but as any scientist will tell you, they is identical in different ways. And the difference is greater in its mass than the similarity.
Cigar please... I is won this one.0 -
Debeli wrote:Imposter wrote:Sure, the 'feel' is different - until you get used to it - and then it feels exactly the same, but so what. You will still go exactly the same speed for the same cadence on s/s or freewheel, given the same gear rollout.
I'll have to agree to disagree - to me the feel of the two is very different. Also, as a single gear is more efficient it takes less effort to ride the same cadence at the same speed so enabling SS to go faster for the same effort.0 -
stevewj wrote:Debeli wrote:Imposter wrote:Sure, the 'feel' is different - until you get used to it - and then it feels exactly the same, but so what. You will still go exactly the same speed for the same cadence on s/s or freewheel, given the same gear rollout.
I'll have to agree to disagree - to me the feel of the two is very different. Also, as a single gear is more efficient it takes less effort to ride the same cadence at the same speed so enabling SS to go faster for the same effort.
How much less effort - like half a watt, or something? Maybe not even that. Ultimately, you are still limited by your cadence. And metabolic demand increases with cadence anyway, so you are no better off in the long term. Let's not go there.0 -
I ride singlespeed back and to work.. it is no way 'efficient' end of.
I dont do fixed as I cannot be bothered to have my head switched on further than getting SAFELY to work before I'm properly awake, and then home again.
I singlespeed for having one LESS thing to worry about and maintain each and every night.
If I had the budget and the disposable income to fritter, of course I would have a geared biked over winter which I could junk come March.
Even keeping a relatively simpletons bike on the road to cope with the God awful road surfaces is a task I readily do when compared to the awful prospect of driving or public transport.
Just an aside, my PDWs have managed to loosen off a rivet... now sorted ... rivets are a fail point, I would have preferred a nut and bolt which they have at other strategic points.
However, they have lasted 1500 miles which is probably 1499 miles longer than plastic thingies.0 -
JGSI wrote:I ride singlespeed back and to work.. it is no way 'efficient' end of.
I dont do fixed as I cannot be bothered to have my head switched on further than getting SAFELY to work before I'm properly awake, and then home again.
I singlespeed for having one LESS thing to worry about and maintain each and every night.
If I had the budget and the disposable income to fritter, of course I would have a geared biked over winter which I could junk come March.
Even keeping a relatively simpletons bike on the road to cope with the God awful road surfaces is a task I readily do when compared to the awful prospect of driving or public transport.
Just an aside, my PDWs have managed to loosen off a rivet... now sorted ... rivets are a fail point, I would have preferred a nut and bolt which they have at other strategic points.
However, they have lasted 1500 miles which is probably 1499 miles longer than plastic thingies.
It is the drivechain that is more efficient not having jockey wheels etc0 -
stevewj wrote:It is the drivechain that is more efficient not having jockey wheels etc
Put a number on it - simply saying 'more efficient' doesn't really cut it.0 -
Efficiency? I've never seen that a reason to ride fixed but who cares, unless it's a race, ride whatever you find the most fun.0
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So the consensus is riding a geared bike in the same gear with a dirty, unserviced freehub = fixed. Right?0
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Simon Masterson wrote:
This is all getting away from my original comment - you said 'Do you mean fixed wheel or single speed? Single speed is just like riding a freewheel bike in the same gear all the time. Fixed wheel on the road - I really don't see the point.'
A number of us disagree - to US it feels different, we enjoy it and so ride it. Other people will ride what they like and all the best to them. Just to answer the comment about putting numbers to efficiency, which I agree is not a reason to ride single gear as it doesn't make enough difference, although there have been a number of outstanding time-triallists who have done incredible times fixed as have those riding on gears -again it's personal preference, these are quotes from a power testing lab :
Typical best-case efficiency of a drivetrain in the 200 – 300 watt range is 96-97.5%
Cross Chaining” (riding with the chain at angles between the chainring and rear sprocket) really hurts efficiency – it’s pretty obvious that frictional losses increase in this scenario. (NOT an issue on properly set up SS)
Cheap derailleur pulleys compared to high end equipment can cost 1 watt. (so what do you save having no derailleur)
Minimal gains !0 -
stevewj wrote:Simon Masterson wrote:
This is all getting away from my original comment - you said 'Do you mean fixed wheel or single speed? Single speed is just like riding a freewheel bike in the same gear all the time. Fixed wheel on the road - I really don't see the point.'
A number of us disagree - to US it feels different, we enjoy it and so ride it. Other people will ride what they like and all the best to them. !
Don't worry, the most vocal people against tend to be those who have not taken either out on the road.
This includes me and my thinking that SS was a waste of time.0 -
I confess I've never deliberately ridden fixed. I tried it briefly by accident when I managed to wedge the chain between the cassette and the spokes, and I have to say it was quite disturbing! How I managed to stay on the bike is still a bit of a mystery...
Now my knees are properly knackered I think I may never get around to trying a proper fixed gear bike
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When I was a teenager my father got me a fixed - I think he thought it would be character building or something.........FFS! Harden up and grow a pair0
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I've just slipped it in wthout her noticing.
Mint condition, completely stock, one hundred and forty of your English Pounds
Twenty more than I intended, ten less than he wanted, so happy all round.
And now the numbers thing on my keyboard has stopped working .......Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
Well, an update for anyone who is thinking of jumping into this fixed wheel folly.
Quick 15 today to do some Chrimbles shopping: mixture of hills (one upwards, 1 1/2 miles, most 8% gradient, one down hill 1/2 mile, 15% gradient, greasy, tight blind hairpins), flat and cutting through town.
Apart from freaking out coming down the hill (have to get used to controlling cadence as I hit a cadence of, oooohhh, probably 90 million) and nearly throwing myself off the bike in front of a couple of blonde girls as I bunny hopped over some speed bumps all is no problem at all (solution - don't stop pedaling!) so long as you don't ever stop pedaling.
I'm lucky in that I have quite a smooth pedaling style anyway - those who are more jerky or do things like stop pedaling in the out of seat to seat (or vice versa stuff) might take a bit of adapting.
It does make you feel a bit hipster (good or bad depends on who you are) but it did spark up a friendly in the sunshine chat with a Doris on an electric bike as I stopped to pick up my new fountain pen (saying that I didn't care that she was on a 'Leccy you bike so long as she was enjoying it also made her day, so good deed done there).
I think it also drew some admiring glances in town but that could just have been me as I'm very good looking. And modest.
Overall, a hit so far - just got to finalize riding position (need to find a lower cone spacer for the front as the one on there is about 7m high and I think we're ready to get it smashed this summer and for new P/X track bike to arrive for next winter.
Again, thank you to everyone for the comments above - much appreciated.
MPostby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
Matthewfalle wrote:Well, an update for anyone who is thinking of jumping into this fixed wheel folly.
Quick 15 today to do some Chrimbles shopping: mixture of hills (one upwards, 1 1/2 miles, most 8% gradient, one down hill 1/2 mile, 15% gradient, greasy, tight blind hairpins), flat and cutting through town.
Apart from freaking out coming down the hill (have to get used to controlling cadence as I hit a cadence of, oooohhh, probably 90 million) and nearly throwing myself off the bike in front of a couple of blonde girls as I bunny hopped over some speed bumps all is no problem at all (solution - don't stop pedaling!) so long as you don't ever stop pedaling.
I'm lucky in that I have quite a smooth pedaling style anyway - those who are more jerky or do things like stop pedaling in the out of seat to seat (or vice versa stuff) might take a bit of adapting.
It does make you feel a bit hipster (good or bad depends on who you are) but it did spark up a friendly in the sunshine chat with a Doris on an electric bike as I stopped to pick up my new fountain pen (saying that I didn't care that she was on a 'Leccy you bike so long as she was enjoying it also made her day, so good deed done there).
I think it also drew some admiring glances in town but that could just have been me as I'm very good looking. And modest.
Overall, a hit so far - just got to finalize riding position (need to find a lower cone spacer for the front as the one on there is about 7m high and I think we're ready to get it smashed this summer and for new P/X track bike to arrive for next winter.
Again, thank you to everyone for the comments above - much appreciated.
M
Glad you can handle it. Takes guts. All the one is know ride fixed has some serious leg power and they are monsters when riding with on the road or off the road.
I am thinking about taking it up just for training but still too chicken to do it.
Good for you.0 -
Thank you!
It seems the most difficult bit is controlling cadence down hills or getting courage to go down hills with your legs flapping at about 90 million rpm - you probably aren't going as fast as your normal bike because your final gearing is lower but it just seems crazy.
Anyone any tips of technique for back pedaling and pulling skids? Or does that just come with increased leg strength? At the mo' I'm struggling to get that sorted.Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
Matthewfalle wrote:Thank you!
It seems the most difficult bit is controlling cadence down hills or getting courage to go down hills with your legs flapping at about 90 million rpm - you probably aren't going as fast as your normal bike because your final gearing is lower but it just seems crazy.
Anyone any tips of technique for back pedaling and pulling skids? Or does that just come with increased leg strength? At the mo' I'm struggling to get that sorted.
I've moved over to doing most of my commuting fixed now, I'm really enjoying it.
When it comes to back pedalling to slow or skid, I don't bother. I've found that trying to ride fixed with no brakes plays havoc with my knees with the back pedalling.0 -
Matthewfalle wrote:Anyone any tips of technique for back pedaling and pulling skids? Or does that just come with increased leg strength? At the mo' I'm struggling to get that sorted.
Yes - Don't.
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Simon Masterson wrote:Matthewfalle wrote:Anyone any tips of technique for back pedaling and pulling skids? Or does that just come with increased leg strength? At the mo' I'm struggling to get that sorted.
Yes - Don't.
This.
You basically lean into the bars and almost lift the rear wheel to lock out your legs. It might look cool but just fit two brakes.0 -
Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:Simon Masterson wrote:Matthewfalle wrote:Anyone any tips of technique for back pedaling and pulling skids? Or does that just come with increased leg strength? At the mo' I'm struggling to get that sorted.
Yes - Don't.
This.
You basically lean into the bars and almost lift the rear wheel to lock out your legs. It might look cool but just fit two brakes.
Definitely. Two brakes are on it at the mo' and are staying on it.
I was actually thinking if I could fit more than two brakes on it for those 15% hill moments ........Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
I have forks at home with both a disc mount AND rim mounts on them ... so getting multiple front wheel brakes is easy to do ... not sure how you would cable it up though ... I guess mechanical disc and vbrake and splice into the same lever0
