Help - Front caliper fail = big crash

24

Comments

  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    New calipers come with a single nut, but longer ones are available. I suppose if a fork / frameset requires unusually long or oddly shaped ones, the manufacturer could supply them...
  • giropaul
    giropaul Posts: 414
    Maybe I had an especially thorough retailer, but I recall having some. They do come in many sizes, but are specific to the frame and forks, not the brand or model of brake.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    What? That's nonsense. It's the total opposite.

    Unless the S-works has a deep hole, the bolt is attached to the brake and the nut comes with it.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,825
    If you look at the remains of the bolt on the caliper you could probably tell if the sleeve nut ever got as far as the threadlock. If the threadlock is unmarked a nut has not been over it and I would be having a word with the shop that built it, they should be made aware of it at least.
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  • markk91
    markk91 Posts: 17
    Veronese68 wrote:
    If you look at the remains of the bolt on the caliper you could probably tell if the sleeve nut ever got as far as the threadlock. If the threadlock is unmarked a nut has not been over it and I would be having a word with the shop that built it, they should be made aware of it at least.

    This is my worry - the threadlock looks unmarked to me. How do you put a photo on this forum?
  • meanredspider
    meanredspider Posts: 12,337
    Fenix wrote:
    Well why are you checking when you say you don't agree with this anyway ?

    As I said: because my experience is that I need to check and because I know what I'm looking for. But if my daughter got her bike fixed at a bike shop in Glasgow, I'd absolutely expect (hope) that they'd done the job properly.

    Otherwise where do you draw the line? If a garage does a repair on your car, is it your responsibility to check they've done it properly? When you fly, should you be out there with the pilot checking the turbine blades? When you buy a kettle, do you do a leakage current check before using it?

    We don't even know what failed in this case. It could be that there wasn't enough threads to support the load or that they threaded it. I'd expect such an item to be threadlocked so tightening it would potentially have a detrimental effect.

    I don't believe in blaming other people but I do believe that we should expect people we pay to do a job to be competent if that's what they're claiming to be. Obviously there's the usual caveats around due diligence.
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  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,825
    markk91 wrote:
    This is my worry - the threadlock looks unmarked to me. How do you put a photo on this forum?
    Oh dear, that's not good. You should definitely havea word so they know what they've done and learn from it at least. To post a photo you need to put it on a picture hosting site like Photobucket and then get the link to thepicture and put it in the IMG thing in the full editor. More detailed instructions here: viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=12734291
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  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    giropaul wrote:
    They do come in many sizes, but are specific to the frame and forks, not the brand or model of brake.

    No, that's complete rubbish. Sleeve nuts are all standard. The truth is the exact opposite of what you just said.
  • bendertherobot
    bendertherobot Posts: 11,684
    Imposter wrote:
    giropaul wrote:
    They do come in many sizes, but are specific to the frame and forks, not the brand or model of brake.

    No, that's complete rubbish. Sleeve nuts are all standard. The truth is the exact opposite of what you just said.

    Standard size but not length? I have three in my office drawer ranging from short to long.
    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-caliper ... essed-nut/
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  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    I agree with BTR here.
  • bendertherobot
    bendertherobot Posts: 11,684
    I'm actually amazed at how many variations there are. Look at this bad boy!
    https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brakes/shim ... y8g698110/
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  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    bendertherobot wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    giropaul wrote:
    They do come in many sizes, but are specific to the frame and forks, not the brand or model of brake.

    No, that's complete rubbish. Sleeve nuts are all standard. The truth is the exact opposite of what you just said.

    Standard size but not length? I have three in my office drawer ranging from short to long.
    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-caliper ... essed-nut/

    Of course there are different lengths, but the thread and the socket fit are all standard dimensions.
  • bendertherobot
    bendertherobot Posts: 11,684
    Imposter wrote:
    bendertherobot wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    giropaul wrote:
    They do come in many sizes, but are specific to the frame and forks, not the brand or model of brake.

    No, that's complete rubbish. Sleeve nuts are all standard. The truth is the exact opposite of what you just said.

    Standard size but not length? I have three in my office drawer ranging from short to long.
    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-caliper ... essed-nut/

    Of course there are different lengths, but the thread and the socket fit are all standard dimensions.

    He's right though, he's talking about length. I had the right ones taped onto my Ritchey logic frame (not my Swiss cross as I said earlier, that's silly :D) ditto my two Condors as I recall. I don't think anyone's suggesting different diameters.
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  • animal72
    animal72 Posts: 251
    So, is the standard bolt too short for the frame?
    Interesting if it is, as whoever built the bike should have noticed and ordered a longer one...
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  • markk91
    markk91 Posts: 17
    Thanks all - Very good comments. So, in summary it is possible that the wrong length was used - and that mistake did really hurt! When the dr sticks a pipe through your rib cage to sort out a collapsed lung you know about it.....
  • fat daddy
    fat daddy Posts: 2,605
    markk91 wrote:
    When the dr sticks a pipe through your rib cage to sort out a collapsed lung you know about it.....


    I wonder if he used the wrong length pipe ..... and the correct one would have resulted in no pain.

    It might have been a day of wrong length objects for you !
  • markk91
    markk91 Posts: 17
    fat daddy wrote:
    markk91 wrote:
    When the dr sticks a pipe through your rib cage to sort out a collapsed lung you know about it.....


    I wonder if he used the wrong length pipe ..... and the correct one would have resulted in no pain.

    It might have been a day of wrong length objects for you !

    HA! I'm still alive so guess it was ok....
  • giropaul
    giropaul Posts: 414
    Thinking about this, if you were racing I'd think that you are taking the front wheel in and out , to change wheels, transport the bike etc. I'm sure that you would have spotted a loose caliper, and be having to centre it all the time. That would point to a sudden failure rather than a loosening off.
  • Beatmaker
    Beatmaker Posts: 1,092
    Surely you just need to reattach the caliper into the fork with a standard Ultegra brake bolt (as supplied with a new caliper) to establish how secure it is/how many threads are engaged? That would satisfy your curiosity. Heal well, I'm currently off the bike with a broken tibia/fibula and an infection to the surgery to complicate matters. No riding since the start of July and it sucks.
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    Aah but we don't know what bolt was holding the caliper on - its lost in the crash. Hell of a crash to do that so it does sound a bit dodgy
  • Beatmaker
    Beatmaker Posts: 1,092
    Aah but we don't know what bolt was holding the caliper on - its lost in the crash. Hell of a crash to do that so it does sound a bit dodgy

    Yes, but if the shop fitted a brand new stock Ultegra caliper, it will be the stock supplied bolt, so fitting the same bolt will replicate the secureness (or lack of) of the caliper. The Op can at least then discount one possible reason for the failure.
  • bendertherobot
    bendertherobot Posts: 11,684
    Beatmaker wrote:
    Aah but we don't know what bolt was holding the caliper on - its lost in the crash. Hell of a crash to do that so it does sound a bit dodgy

    Yes, but if the shop fitted a brand new stock Ultegra caliper, it will be the stock supplied bolt, so fitting the same bolt will replicate the secureness (or lack of) of the caliper. The Op can at least then discount one possible reason for the failure.

    They may come with more than one though. My SRAM always did. So if there are left overs and they are long it might suggest they did use a short one.
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  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,825
    fat daddy wrote:
    markk91 wrote:
    When the dr sticks a pipe through your rib cage to sort out a collapsed lung you know about it.....
    I wonder if he used the wrong length pipe ..... and the correct one would have resulted in no pain.
    I can vouch for that hurting like ****
    I had a chest drain put in and then they had to adjust it without anaesthetic as it was in the wrong place. Pain was about 17 on a scale of 1-10. Even though they tried to distract me by having a shapely nurse hold me down as they did so.
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  • markk91
    markk91 Posts: 17
    Veronese68 wrote:
    fat daddy wrote:
    markk91 wrote:
    When the dr sticks a pipe through your rib cage to sort out a collapsed lung you know about it.....
    I wonder if he used the wrong length pipe ..... and the correct one would have resulted in no pain.
    I can vouch for that hurting like ****
    I had a chest drain put in and then they had to adjust it without anaesthetic as it was in the wrong place. Pain was about 17 on a scale of 1-10. Even though they tried to distract me by having a shapely nurse hold me down as they did so.

    I was not so lucky with the nurse....It was so sore that I was pushing them away with my arm attached to a very broken collarbone...some bad language followed.
  • grenw
    grenw Posts: 804
    Beatmaker wrote:
    Surely you just need to reattach the caliper into the fork with a standard Ultegra brake bolt (as supplied with a new caliper) to establish how secure it is/how many threads are engaged? That would satisfy your curiosity. Heal well, I'm currently off the bike with a broken tibia/fibula and an infection to the surgery to complicate matters. No riding since the start of July and it sucks.

    I upgraded the brakes on my Defy last year to 6800 calipers. Each came with 3 bolts of different lengths. I just used the one that was the same length as the one already in but on a new frame build there's no guide to go by.
  • thistle_
    thistle_ Posts: 7,218
    GrenW wrote:
    I upgraded the brakes on my Defy last year to 6800 calipers. Each came with 3 bolts of different lengths. I just used the one that was the same length as the one already in but on a new frame build there's no guide to go by.
    I replaced mine with Tiagra earlier in the year. Also got 3/4 nuts/cylinders and I also just picked the one that was the same size as the old one.
  • dinyull
    dinyull Posts: 2,979
    The caliper(s) in my OEM groupset came with only 1 nut so had to use the one from the caliper it was replacing.

    I'd guess it depens how the OP/bike shop bought the parts/groupset?
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,825
    If I was building a new bike and had a selection of sleeve nuts I'd make damned sure there was plenty of thread on there and err on the side of caution if not sure. I wonder if any weight weenies go for the least they can get away with.

    To add to Dinyull's point about what an OEM groupset came with, I would expect a bikeshop to have dozens of those nuts floating about in the workshop.
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  • bbrap
    bbrap Posts: 610
    Veronese68 wrote:

    To add to Dinyull's point about what an OEM groupset came with, I would expect a bikeshop to have dozens of those nuts floating about in the workshop.

    And I would expect the mechanic who put it together to realise that once the tube nut had contacted the end of the bolt in the fork that it should take more than 1/2 a turn to tighten.
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  • Moonbiker
    Moonbiker Posts: 1,706
    I read somewhere that shimano recommend a minimum of 5 threads of enagagement on the bolts.

    I had to but a longer bolt from ebay for a bike i built up.

    One of theese

    https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q= ... brake-bolt

    Se all different size depending on how chunky your fork is.

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