Race pacing....is there such a thing in Cross?

AllezAllezAllez

Hi All,

I'm looking for advice/top tips on Cross Races tactics/pacing.

This is my first season and so far I've completed 6 of the Yorkshire Points Series Rounds. Prior to the six races I've never raced Cross so I'm building experience as I go. My best result is 26th out of 39 in the V40, which was on a dry course. I think this played into my hands as my road miles came into play. Last week I dropped off as it was a real mud fest and more of a slog.

I think I need to go harder at the start to be further up the pack, but at the moment I tend to go at a pace I think I can hold for the whole hour.

Would I be better going harder on the first few laps and then trying to "hold" a higher position, rather then trying to catch up riders who may be fading? My fear is I go too hard and then Pop!

Chris James

You sound a similar standard to me, except I usually do better on muddy courses and get bullied by road racers on early season grass criteriums.

I go fairly hard for the first couple of corners and push for the first lap or so, and then try to settle into a rhythm with periodic hard efforts to overtake other riders and drop them.

I usually find on muddy races that I spend the first 2/3rds of the race overtaking riders before consolidating, or sometimes slightly fading. part of this might be due to the fact that I often turn up to the back of the start line having barely warmed up because I have been sorting out my kids who have raced and are now cold and moaning!

Some riders who are similar overall speed to me start faster and fade faster. My impression is that muddy courses punish those riders more than those who pace themselves. I also find that some riders push so hard through some sections that they have to catch their breath on downhill sections, and keeping amore even pace gives good opportunities to move up by constantly pedalling - also you get more grip on the mud that way.

Obviously when I say 'pace themselves' I mean with respect to cyclocross. There are still plenty of eyeball popping moments.

mikpem

I feel that I can call on hidden reserves to get me through the race if I go off a bit too hard at the start but if I pace myself I just use what I have then find at the end that I recover much more quickly.
So I tend to go off hard and let my body work out how to get it done.

bendertherobot

If anyone figures it out, let me know, not helped by our new 40 minute format whose end point is a bit bewildering. I did 38 minutes on Sunday (got flagged) but not sure how the winner didn't do 40.

FWIW, I start too far back, don't compete enough at the start and then drift the same distance behind most people as they obtain from me. I need to start harder, push that first lap and save less up I reckon.

trek_dan

Not really race pacing, more or less as soon as you start its just max effort for an hour. Being a 'good starter' is definitely a thing though. My starts are terrible, I get gridded second or third row and still manage to have to ride from near enough the back occasionally, something to work on for next season. I think sometimes I get away with it as pretty often my race are as long as 1 hour 10 minutes if I make it through just before being lapped by the winner.

VamP

There's two components to this. The first is the per lap distribution of matches. Where in the lap do you recover, and where do you light the afterburners. Figuring this out is a key part of the sighting laps, although you need an open mind and respond to what others are doing. Or not doing

The second is where in the race do you consolidate, and where do you attack. That depends on where you are gridded, how your start went, who you're in close contact with, and finally what you have left in the tank.

So it's always different. One of the (many) beauties of cross.

bendertherobot

I'm utterly terrified as well of cocking other people's races up. And I need to reduce this to a level of being accomodating but remembering I paid to be out there as well.

I gave way on Sunday at a particular point the matched the speed of the overtaker for the next few minutes. And had to alter my line quite a lot to get out of the way.

imposter2.0

For most, cross is simply sustaining the highest effort you can manage for the duration of the race. If you want to call that 'race pace', then I guess that's what it is.

tgotb

Regarding the start: A good aim is to try to get into a position where you're getting held up as little as possible on Lap 1. If you're in the front couple of rows, this means burning whatever matches are required to stay ahead of people who are slower than you, but not wasting effort to get ahead of people you know will ride away from you.

If you're starting mid-field and likely to get held up whatever happens, look at that hold-up as an opportunity to recover; if you're going to get a rest anyway, you might aswell burn a few matches to get to the bottleneck as far up the field as you can.

I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone say they wish they'd taken it a bit easier on the first lap of a CX race.

Once you get settled into the race, it's all down to VamP's points. Know your weaknesses; I have a tendency to settle into the race a bit too much, a glance at my HRM can be a reminder to push a bit harder.

Don't ever worry about c*cking up someone else's race, unless you've suddenly slowed down (eg a mechanical), are being lapped or are lapping someone else, or you're interacting with someone competing in a different race. Outside those situations, someone who's on the same part of the course is your direct competitor, especially after the first lap; within the rules and the constraints of good sportsmanship, anything goes. Use your common sense, but if someone wants to overtake you it's up to them to figure out how to get past.

devhads

Pretty much what VamP says. For me pacing is very much dependent on two things, the course itself and your own personal attributes.

For example on a course which is basically all up and down, I am going well in to the red on the ups and recovering on the downs as is everyone else. The downs don't let me recover enough for the ups so I struggle. Plus, and I think this is key, I'm not able to go any faster in the recovery period than my competitors as we are all going downhill at roughly the same speed. The best course for me are those where I can go faster than my competitors, whilst in my recovery period. As everyone has different attributes, where you recover may be different on the course but you need to play to your strengths. Sighting laps are good for this but It does take a couple of laps at race pace to really dial this in.

So as VamP and TGOTB say, know your weaknesses and strengths and also know the course. I tend to take it on a lap by lap basis, have I paced myself right for this lap rather than the whole race. By pacing your self correctly for each lap you hopefully will neither blow up nor have too much left in the tank come the end of the race.

Edit : This is why I don't like courses that are all one surface i.e grass. BC regulations state

The course shall include roads, country and
forest paths and meadowland alternating in
such a way as to ensure changes in the pace of
the race and allowing riders to recuperate after
difficult sections.

I know some people don't like forest tracks or singletrack in cross, but we all go better on one type of surface or another and it helps recuperation in that respect. A course all on grass, even if it goes up and down is still a grass crit, a grass crit with hills.

Chris James

Yes, it is very course dependent. There was one corner at the weekend where I gained at least one place on every lap but going around the outside and switching sides rather than just using the apex. It was worth putting in a hard effort here as I was gaining places.

There was a downhill section where I pedalled and didn't brake where everyone else was slowing for an awkward muddy corner. I gained three places in that short section on one lap, whilst still recovering. Not surprisingly that was my favourite bit of the course. This is why I like muddy courses. I am only fairly lightly built and can run quite low tyre pressures. That, paired with a confident approach can due quite a bit to offset a general lack of fitness when it is a mud bath.

There was another rutted bog section that everyone else seemed to manage but nearly killed me, so I ended up going massively into the red on every lap just to maintain my position, and the uphill drag along the path that followed was purgatory as everyone else seemed fresher than me.

I think you can usually look at your lap times to judge how well you have paced it. Often the course deteriorates, so you need to compare lap times to finishers near you as all riders will slow during the race in those conditions.

AllezAllezAllez

Thanks for all the comments, definitely food for thought.

Looking back at my first few races I think I need to focus and practice:

1, Go harder at the start and trying to hold a higher position.
2, Pushing on more in the first few laps and not settling to what I think is a pace for me too soon.
3, Attacking in appropriate places for me.
4, Remembering that everyone is hurting!

Still early days for me, but I've enjoyed the series and I'm slowly building my skills up.

cyclingsheep

Those talking from 4+ seasons of experience above all have good advice. The start is important to keep/gain position but if you go too hard your second lap suffers as you try to recover to a pace. Not only does the course help you decide where and when to push but also the riders you're racing against can offer a chance to recover. Catch them, sit in and work out where you're stronger and pass them just before those sections so you can gap them. I know early seasons for me were spent in the red the whole race but this year I'm having more fun playing with tactics and competing with those around me. You don't need to be at the front to have fun like that.

Jterrier

This is a brill thread covering a lot of the dilemmas i have. I have only started cx this year and often wonder if my approach is wrong. Some races go well, the most recent one went awful and i couldnt see why. Helps reading this.

devhads

Another thing to consider about pacing is using other riders to pace yourself. This might not be possible for those who have just started racing but you soon work out who in the race is generally faster, slower or about the same pace as you. Don't try and keep up with someone who is 9/10 finishing way ahead of you. You will blow up. Conversely you may want to think about putting in a bit of a push if quite a few of the people around you usually finish way behind you.

In time you'll know who is roughly the same as you and try and keep up with them. They're usually the people you are chatting to on the grid as generally gridding doesn't lie. I'm lucky, in the league I race with there's a guy who I know is very evenly matched to me and goes about as well as me on the same type of course. He's also a team mate so I DEFINITELY want to be within sight of him at all times, unless I'm way ahead of course :-)

veryslowtwitch

Fight to get to the front of start line. If not gridded then make sure you are in the first row behind gridded riders. Do not feel you have to start at the back, if so you might as well just chuck away 100m and will be demoralised when you see the front of the race charging while you are still stationary. If there is a proper holeshot and/or singletrack then absolutely smash it at the start to minimise the chance of being held up behind a crash or a string of slower riders. People might scream at you but unless they're lapping you then it's their problem to get past. Do not give up any position at all on singletrack because you will suffer like a dog to get that place back so stick your elbows out and take the best line. Don't worry about holding anyone up, you have every right to take the racing line unless lapped, and if you wipe out then don't apologise, the riders behind you should not have been there. Nothing worse than knowing you could go harder but being slowed by others. Always ask "can I give another 3%?" If so, do it. And don't relax once the race has spread out and the elastic has snapped, there's always someone failing or having a mechanical ahead, and always someone faster 10 secs behind! have fun

AllezAllezAllez

Jterrier wrote:

This is a brill thread covering a lot of the dilemmas i have. I have only started cx this year and often wonder if my approach is wrong. Some races go well, the most recent one went awful and i couldnt see why. Helps reading this.

My first year too and appreciate the comments, some very good experiences being shared.

VamP

veryslowtwitch wrote:

People might scream at you but unless they're lapping you then it's their problem to get past.

This is not representative of my cross racing experience. If people are actually screaming at you on a regular basis, you might want to rethink your riding. In my experience people only really get noisy if they perceive your riding to be dangerous.

Chris James

veryslowtwitch wrote:

Fight to get to the front of start line. If not gridded then make sure you are in the first row behind gridded riders.

The original poster is racing in Yorkshire in the senior / vet 40 race. He has no chance of being gridded as he will be racing against current and former national champions. I'd agree that if people are screaming at you then you are doing something wrong.

A good start is important but if everyone acts like arseholes then all that happens is massive crashes off the start line. Because of the current large fields in Yorkshire (often over 100 riders in this race, and that was only achived by splitting vet 40 and adding vet 45 as a separate race with the vet 50s) then a conscious decision was made a couple of years ago to minimise the amount of singletrack and to aim for a minimum of 3m wide course for most of the race - at least for the Yorkshire Points races - the non points series races can be a bit more old school - like Queensbury this year.

Moonbiker

Im racing this course on sunday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oosDwaaN9rA

If you watch the first minutes of video you will see how important a fast start is due to the choke point.

VamP

LOL at Le Mans start. Some bad planning with bike positioning for many

In fairness, I have not yet done a cross race where the starting sprint didn't play a key part.

cyclingsheep

Moonbiker wrote:

Im racing this course on sunday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oosDwaaN9rA

If you watch the first minutes of video you will see how important a fast start is due to the choke point.

Was glad they changed the start for the race last Sunday. Can't figure out why in that video not everyone's bikes were the same distance back.

AllezAllezAllez

Moonbiker wrote:

Im racing this course on sunday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oosDwaaN9rA

If you watch the first minutes of video you will see how important a fast start is due to the choke point.

This video really highlights to me the importance of getting as near the front as possible at the start. I best start practicing.