Self build, or readily assembled?

cgraley77

Hello,
Looking for some advice on what you all perceive as the best way to get my hands on a CX bike. I'm currently toying between a self build (and so purchasing a frame and all components etc seperately), or just to buy one off the peg (new or 2nd hand). Current budget is around £1k

As a note I'm hoping to have one sooner rather than later, so I'd rather not spend a few months searching round/waiting for the best deals on components.

Is there much £ value to be had from a self build nowadays, given the big guns have such leverage on their purchasing power of Groupsets? It looks like I can currently get:
- 105-level group and TRP spyre mechanical discs, c£350,
- CX disc-ready wheels c£100-150
- remaining components c£100

I'd then have acround £3-400 for a frame.

Imagine it would be more cost effective to get a fully built up Planet X or similar which appear to come very well specced (as usual).

Feels a little like a head vs heart dilemma - I like the idea of a self build and choosing a frame that appeals but unsure whether to go down this path.

Apologies for the rambling - any advice gratefully received!

imposter2.0

£1k will get you a perfectly good, race ready CX bike, so it's difficult to see what else could be achieved by self-build, apart from the opportunity to choose your own components..

Chris James

I built up my cross bike from bits and it is my favourite bike, despite being built to a tight budget. It is nice to have personally selected every part of it.

However, I don't for moment think it is the cheapest way of doing it. The budget builds without you even realising it on all the little extras that you don't consider - bar tape, frame protectors, headset spacers, cable guides, inner tubes, tyres, headset etc.

Many frames have lacquer on the BB threads, requiring you to face them - or rather a bike shop to do it for you = more £. Or fit press fit bearing races, crown races and the like.

I think at the £1K budget the best value is to get an off the shelf bike, although by building it yourself you can get build the bike that best suits you.

fenix

Off the shelf.

Self build only makes sense if you have a lot of time to bag bargains or are incredibly fussy about spec.

tgotb

Depends whether you know exactly what you want, and how much of a stock build you'd be likely to replace. For example, if I bought a bike off the shelf I'd most likely end up replacing the saddle, bars (to get the right width), wheels (because stock wheels are generally not great), and possibly cassette/chainrings. That assumes the stock build came with my choice of shifters.

If you're willing to put the effort in, and buy some bits second hand, you can generally build a better bike for less money. For instance my CX bikes are nearly 2kg lighter than the off-the-shelf equivalent, cost marginally less, and have exactly the components I want. Frames were cosmetic seconds, shifters second-hand, carbon bars picked up in a sale etc. An additional benefit is that, if anything goes wrong, I know exactly what spares to get and how to fix it.

If you don't really know what you want (which is likely to be the case with a first CX bike) it might be better to buy off-the-shelf, or even second-hand; after a season or two on a second-hand bike you'll be able to sell it for a good proportion of what you paid, and will also have a much better idea of what you really want...

cgraley77

Hi all,
Thanks for the feedback and food for thought - much appreciated.

Second hand "off the shelf" could definitely be a goer - hadn't thought about the holding of resale value. Would £800-£1k on a second hand CX steed be a little frivolous given my previous dabbling with offroading is a few MTB rides 3-4 years ago?

Thanks again

fenix

What are you going to use it for ? CX racing ? Off roading ?

tgotb

cgraley77 wrote:

Second hand "off the shelf" could definitely be a goer - hadn't thought about the holding of resale value. Would £800-£1k on a second hand CX steed be a little frivolous given my previous dabbling with offroading is a few MTB rides 3-4 years ago?

I don't think you'd need to spend that much to get something decent. For example, have a look at the prices here:
http://www.wessexcx.co.uk/category/for-sale-wanted/
http://www.cyclocrosswales.co.uk/forsale.html

A bike that has been raced a lot is likely to be a bit scuffed, but will hopefully have been well looked after.

Edit: If you spend well under your original budget, you can always put the remainder into a fund to purchase bits for your "dream bike", once you work out what your dream bike actually is...

cgraley77

A bit of everything I imagine. There's a definite desire to try some CX racing after hearing/seeing how fun it looks. I'd also use it for some riding of off road trails etc around Bristol, as well as in the Yorkshire Dales as I regularly visit there (so decent gear ratios are probably a must). Similarly I'd probably also use it for commuting in some capacity.

Covering all bases - that probably doesn't help much does it

tgotb

cgraley77 wrote:

A bit of everything I imagine. There's a definite desire to try some CX racing after hearing/seeing how fun it looks. I'd also use it for some riding of off road trails etc around Bristol, as well as in the Yorkshire Dales as I regularly visit there (so decent gear ratios are probably a must). Similarly I'd probably also use it for commuting in some capacity.

Covering all bases - that probably doesn't help much does it

All the more reason to start with something second-hand. Aswell as discovering more about what you actually want, you'll also discover more about what you're going to end up using it for.

If you're going to use it for commuting, consider something that will take mudguards (many CX frames do, some race-specific ones don't), and consider a second set of wheels with slicks if your commute is likely to be on road.

Jterrier

the problem with second hand stuff is that quite often, in fact most of the time, people want far too much money for an outdated bike, when you could finance a new one easily at 0% in a variety of ways and get the latest tech (1x, thru axles, hydro brakes etc); for example I just saw someone selling an old kinesis crosslight with avid bb5 brakes and a 2x9 drivetrain, and basic wheels, and asking 600 quid. Thats bonkers expensive.
In turn, the problem with self build is that as many have pointed out, unless you have a very specific taste and want to be a bit alternative, what is the point? its much more expensive as you are paying full whack for everything. Buy an off the peg complete bike then maybe personalise it a bit as time goes on.

Chris James

The other problem with second hand is that cross bikes tend to be completely trashed after they have been raced a lot. That's fine if the bike has been well maintained, but if you find that they crashed the STIs in a sandpit, that it has been heavily pressure washed and needs new bottom bracket, headset, wheel bearings etc. and that the fraem was crashed into a tree in one race then it might not be much of a bargain.

cgraley77

Thanks all - some great food for thought, particularly on the benefits and negatives of 2nd hand...

Must admit that a shiny new bike is very tempting! There seems to be some good deals lingering on 2016 models (eg Cube Cross Race, Caadx Ultegra, Pinnacle Arkose) that I'll look at more seriously. On that note, if you have any recommendations of retailers who I may not have some across, that would be appreciated!

Cheers

tgotb

Jterrier wrote:

the problem with second hand stuff is that quite often, in fact most of the time, people want far too much money for an outdated bike, when you could finance a new one easily at 0% in a variety of ways and get the latest tech (1x, thru axles, hydro brakes etc); for example I just saw someone selling an old kinesis crosslight with avid bb5 brakes and a 2x9 drivetrain, and basic wheels, and asking 600 quid. Thats bonkers expensive.
In turn, the problem with self build is that as many have pointed out, unless you have a very specific taste and want to be a bit alternative, what is the point? its much more expensive as you are paying full whack for everything. Buy an off the peg complete bike then maybe personalise it a bit as time goes on.

I'm not sure I agree. For instance, I built my bikes for a shade under £1k each; for that, I get a 7.5kg bike with carbon frame/forks/seatpost/bars/rims/cranks. I also get SRAM Red shifters, hydraulic disk brakes, 1x10 chainset, and a 1400g wheelset. For the same money I could get a ready-built bike on the same frame, which would be ~2kg heavier, with SRAM Apex or Tiagra shifters, cable disk brakes, and entry-level wheels.
When it comes to second-hand - yes, there are some overpriced bikes out there, but there are also some bargains. Last year I picked up a bike for my girlfriend, who wanted to have a go at CX: decent Paul Milnes frame, Campag groupset, Open Pro wheels; probably weighs 8.5kg. Cost me £100, and the only thing I had to change was the saddle. Might not be bang up-to-date, but at that price who cares? By the time she's ready to upgrade she'll easily have got £100 of value out of the bike, she'll have a much better idea of what she wants to upgrade to, and we'll probably sell it on for what we paid for it anyway.

Off-the shelf is the easy option, but if you're prepared to put a bit of effort in you can do a lot better.

Mototarka

Are you stealing most of the parts then? I've build more than one custom bike, all of them came over £1k with much cheaper build kit than you've mentioned

tgotb

Mototarka wrote:

Are you stealing most of the parts then? I've build more than one custom bike, all of them came over £1k with much cheaper build kit that you've mentioned

I'm picking a lot of the components up cheap, second-hand, or from reputable overseas suppliers. Few examples:
Frameset - Cosmetic seconds ~£300 each
Seatpost - Can pick up second-hand carbon 3T/FSA seatposts for ~£20 (EBay and BikeRadar classifieds)
Shifters - Last two SRAM Red sets I bought were £30 and £50 from clubmates, advertised on club forum
Bars - FSA SLK-compact, picked up a few discounted sets from PX for ~£60 a few years ago. PX alloy bars, normally available for £30 without discount, are very nearly as good
Stems - Superstar (can't remember the model) - very light, alloy, ~£10
Chainset - FSA SLK Light chainsets pop up for ~£50 from time to time (eBay, classifieds)
Narrow/wide chainrings - Superstar rings are ~£20
Brakesets - Ex demo TRP Parabox, £50 per set. Also seen them on eBay for similar price
Tyres - Planet X were selling Challenge Grifo and Challenge Fango tubs for £30, earlier this year
Rims - 50mm deep section carbon rims $110 from Farsports
Hubs - Novatec D711/D712 = $120 from Farsports
Could also build a set of tubeless clinchers (eg Stan's Iron Cross) at similar weight, for a bit less money.

I'd be a bit cautious buying something complex like shifters from an unknown seller with no provenance, but there are plenty of people out there who bought a bike with a groupset they didn't want, or tried a new style of shifter for a season but didn't get on with it.

Like I said, it's a bit more work but it's do-able, especially if you keep a lookout for bargains. If I started from scratch I reckon I could build another bike, to an equivalent spec and for about the same budget, within 4-6 weeks. This is starting with a spec (specific frameset, specific groupset etc) and finding the bits, not building a random bike out of whatever I can find that's going cheap.

Junior's next CX bike is taking a bit longer, but that's because the framesets I'm looking for are like hen's teeth; goal is to build something that weighs no more than one of my race bikes, for no more than the cost of an Islabike...

mpatts

I bought a last season bike with unfashionable cantis for 50% off, and added a set of second hand carbon tubulars for racing.

Mototarka

Just made my own list
Frameset new Pinnacle Arkose - 350
Wheelset Cosine new - 200 (today it's 158 )
BB - 12
Chainring Superstars narrow wide - 25
Chain - 15
Cassette 11-40 Sunrace- 55
Derailleur - 30
Seatpost - 18
Stem - 30
Bars - 18
Brifter Lever Tiagra - 50
Cables Jagwire Long - 30
Headset - 10
Tyres - 58
Saddle - 29
Bartape - 10
Brakes Spyre SLC - 110 (could have saved here)
Chainset - second hand from previous bike

And it's already over £1000 if you count every small bit Of course it has much lighter parts than a shelf ready bike for the same price, and that price could be reduced picking second hand or reduced parts...

VamP

Trek Crockett in the CX1 build is really good value now. It's basically a race ready build, just need to add some tubulars. I don't need a bike, and I'm tempted.

Same geometry as the Boone, a clubmate who has both actually prefers the Crockett.

£999 - you will really struggle to get near that with a self-build.

Of course, it's the unfashionable canti version

bendertherobot

It's not necessarily a binary choice. Partial upgrade is probably preferable to self build.

So, for example, a CAADX 105 (or Tiagra), if you could find one, for say £650-£700 would be a very fine bike if you upgraded it to Cosine Disc wheels and Juin Tech R1 brakes.

othello

VamP wrote:

Trek Crockett in the CX1 build is really good value now. It's basically a race ready build, just need to add some tubulars. I don't need a bike, and I'm tempted.

Same geometry as the Boone, a clubmate who has both actually prefers the Crockett.

£999 - you will really struggle to get near that with a self-build.

Of course, it's the unfashionable canti version

Yes, its a total bargain thanks to the buying power of Trek and that discount off RRP. I'm after the 50cm version and they are sold out, especially at that sale price.