Zwift on a non smart trainer

bianchimoon

Any one using it, how does it work if using against people with resistance trainers?

fat daddy

bianchimoon wrote:

Any one using it, how does it work if using against people with resistance trainers?

Speed on Zwift is determined by power you output added to the whole weight, size, draft, slope % equation.

if you don't have a smart trainer, all it means is you don't have resistance coming back to your legs that is controlled by whats happening on the screen.

so if you are peddaling along at 200w and doing 25mph in the game and hit a hill, your cadence will stay the same the resistance will feel the same, but the speed will suddenly drop to 10mph, if you want to get your speed up you either need to spin a lot faster to hit 300w or manually change the resistance so your cadence stays the same but you generate more power

All a smart trainer does is change the resistance for you .. oh and have the power meter built in .. if you dotn have a smart trainer you need a power meter

bianchimoon

fat daddy wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

Any one using it, how does it work if using against people with resistance trainers?

Speed on Zwift is determined by power you output added to the whole weight, size, draft, slope % equation.

if you don't have a smart trainer, all it means is you don't have resistance coming back to your legs that is controlled by whats happening on the screen.

so if you are peddaling along at 200w and doing 25mph in the game and hit a hill, your cadence will stay the same the resistance will feel the same, but the speed will suddenly drop to 10mph, if you want to get your speed up you either need to spin a lot faster to hit 300w or manually change the resistance so your cadence stays the same but you generate more power

All a smart trainer does is change the resistance for you

ah, good explanation, dongle arrives tomorrow, looking forward to seeing how it goes - cheers

markhewitt1978

fat daddy wrote:

All a smart trainer does is change the resistance for you .. oh and have the power meter built in .. if you dotn have a smart trainer you need a power meter

All true except this part. You don't need a power meter if your trainer is one of those supported by Zwift you can use an ANT+ speed sensor and have Zwift estimate your power output using 'zPower'.

bianchimoon

markhewitt1978 wrote:

fat daddy wrote:

All a smart trainer does is change the resistance for you .. oh and have the power meter built in .. if you dotn have a smart trainer you need a power meter

All true except this part. You don't need a power meter if your trainer is one of those supported by Zwift you can use an ANT+ speed sensor and have Zwift estimate your power output using 'zPower'.

Yes well spotted, I have no power meter, so will be using z power, I did log on, but having no ant dongle till tomorrow obviously couldn't move, am really pi$$ed off tho, not one of those zwift characters stopped to help!!!, bet they don't even wave.. tut

fat daddy

markhewitt1978 wrote:

and have Zwift estimate your power output using 'zPower'.

ah, I always wondered what Zpower was ..... it also explains the rants about it and people blaming zpower users for cheating :roll:

markhewitt1978

fat daddy wrote:

markhewitt1978 wrote:

and have Zwift estimate your power output using 'zPower'.

ah, I always wondered what Zpower was ..... it also explains the rants about it and people blaming zpower users for cheating :roll:

If a user is using a power meter or smart trainer they'll have a little lightening bolt next to their w/kg figure. If not they're using zPower. And yes, it's very easy for it to be very wrong.

bianchimoon

markhewitt1978 wrote:

fat daddy wrote:

markhewitt1978 wrote:

and have Zwift estimate your power output using 'zPower'.

ah, I always wondered what Zpower was ..... it also explains the rants about it and people blaming zpower users for cheating :roll:

If a user is using a power meter or smart trainer they'll have a little lightening bolt next to their w/kg figure. If not they're using zPower. And yes, it's very easy for it to be very wrong.

It's the way of life unfortunately.. nothings fair and equal, even in the real world peeps will cheat

fat daddy

bianchimoon wrote:

It's the way of life unfortunately.. nothings fair and equal, even in the real world peeps will cheat

Oh don't get me wrong, I wasn't complaining, I just read a lot of rants about zpower, but had no idea what they were talking about.

I don't care if people cheat .. its a computer game. Lots of people beat me, they are either, better than me, fitter than me, faster than me, stronger than me having a better day than me, better equipment than me, prepared better than me, luckier than me, strategically better than me, or even cheated ...... it doesn't make any difference how they beat me .... on the day, they were faster.

same as in real life really

its all a game, I try to put as much effort in as I can .. mostly I race myself, its the only known variable that I can compare myself to

jimboyle1967

markhewitt1978 wrote:

...... it also explains the rants about it and people blaming zpower users for cheating :roll:

I use a classic trainer with an ANT+ usb dongle, and it works really well. I accept that it won't be as accurate as a power meter or a fancy smart trainer, but having measured my power before using the right gear, I know that it is close enough for using Zwift without me feeling like a cheat. My trainer is actually not one of those officially supported by Zwift, but I just found one that is close enough to mine from the same manufacturer and selected that.

If anyone does accuse you of cheating, ignore, it's only a computer game that can help to keep you motivated while you stay fit over the winter, no more than that. For those that take it more seriously than that, good for them, you just enjoy doing what you are doing.

bianchimoon

fat daddy wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

It's the way of life unfortunately.. nothings fair and equal, even in the real world peeps will cheat

.. mostly I race myself, its the only known variable that I can compare myself to

exactly, i would have thought comparing yourself over previous times on zwift would be more accurate than a local loop on strata where conditions can vary so much

markhewitt1978

Agreed, it matters not one bit. As long as your personal experience is good and it keeps you cycling it's all fine.

The only area I would say it's an issue is with races where they can get a bit more strict about verifying that your weight and power output is accurate.

homers_double

So it's time to dig out the turbo... I have a garmin with speed and cadence on wy winter bike which I'll be using so assume I just need the Ant+ thingy and download Zwift for two weeks on a free trial to see what it's all about?

I'll sit my Surface in the conservatory as the screen.

bianchimoon

homers double wrote:

So it's time to dig out the turbo... I have a garmin with speed and cadence on wy winter bike which I'll be using so assume I just need the Ant+ thingy and download Zwift for two weeks on a free trial to see what it's all about?

I'll sit my Surface in the conservatory as the screen.

Exactly what I'm doing, dongle from amazon for £10, free trial for 50 kliks or a month whatever comes sooner, if all goes to plan, i'll pay the money over the winter, suspend over spring summer and back on next winter

homers_double

50km isn't much is it? Thats about a single ride.

Off to Amazon I go...

... Then DL Zwift tonight I think so I'm all set instead of getting frustrated about running out of time when all the stuff arrives. Looking forward to this really.

bianchimoon

homers double wrote:

50km isn't much is it? Thats about a single ride.

Off to Amazon I go, unless you could be so kind as to reccomend the USB thing you tried (assuming you've got it?)

ordered mine today so taking pot luck, didn't want to pay £50 for garmins version or £30+ from wiggle, the cheap ones had decent reviews, seems to be all about positioning the dongle right to pick up ant signal, i went for this one
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anself-Compati ... %2B+dongle
customer reviews said it worked with 800 and Zwift, so fingers crossed

homers_double

Sorry about the edit, but yes thats the one I ordered. Can't go wrng for a tenner really.

markhewitt1978

This is the one I got which is a bit more https://www.amazon.co.uk/Suunto-Movesti ... move+stick

bianchimoon

yeah weather forecast for snow here tomorrow eve, so regular wed night ride postponed (plus riding buddy away, so possibly a bit risky out there on hilly country lanes on my own), will play on zwift instead

bianchimoon

markhewitt1978 wrote:

This is the one I got which is a bit more https://www.amazon.co.uk/Suunto-Movesti ... move+stick

still very good value!

homers_double

Just found out a mate has one I can borrow so will get on it tonight hopefully, just have a bit of sorting out in terms of the bike but nothing major. I suspect the software will take the longest to set up.

shazzz

Anyone know if there is wind on Zwift? Not bottom burps, but simulated head / tail winds that vary depending on the weather - ie you may ride the same route with a head wind one day and a tail wind the next?

markhewitt1978

shazzz wrote:

Anyone know if there is wind on Zwift? Not bottom burps, but simulated head / tail winds that vary depending on the weather - ie you may ride the same route with a head wind one day and a tail wind the next?

No, no wind.

bianchimoon

homers double wrote:

Just found out a mate has one I can borrow so will get on it tonight hopefully, just have a bit of sorting out in terms of the bike but nothing major. I suspect the software will take the longest to set up.

a few minutes to download, fill in a few details, height, weight etc, choose your trainer, pair the ant with garmin and looks like it's as simple as that

homers_double

I shall report back tomorrow sir!

bianchimoon

Had my first go this eve, was pleasantly surprised, I say pleasantly, covered in sweat and breathing hard, but all in all impressed with the accuracy of zpower. Climb rates and ave speed over the course I did, were there or thereabouts what I would expect given it's a virtual comp simulation. Will almost certainly sign up for the winter

MiddleRinger

Strava Premium members get the rest of the year for free! I've been logging a few Zwift rides of late using rollers and a power meter. It doesn't give the full smart trainer experience, but it's still pretty good.

bianchimoon wrote:

Yes well spotted, I have no power meter, so will be using z power, I did log on, but having no ant dongle till tomorrow obviously couldn't move, am really pi$$ed off tho, not one of those zwift characters stopped to help!!!, bet they don't even wave.. tut

Actually if you press F2 during the game you can wave at people.... lol

homers_double

ANT+ thingy is still in its wrapper :roll:

bianchimoon

homers double wrote:

ANT+ thingy is still in its wrapper :roll:

I've had a few goes, signed up for the winter, surprised me at the amount of vitriol on some of the zwift forums to those of us not using a power meter (if your power levels are too high that is!). Get it all the set up right and Zpower levels seem pretty realistic for me averaging approx 150 watts or 160w/k

homers_double

Is the power estimate provided on Strava a realistic output for comparison?

FWIW I have no interest in my power output and have no intention of buying a power meter - I just ride my bike.

bianchimoon

like yourself no real interest in power outputs on the road, I guess you need to take them a little more seriously on zwift as they are so prominent within the zwift graphics, my strava on average seems to be down 20 or so watts, but that could be due to so many factors, as you say aint worth worrying about unless you're doing stooped outputs and peeing off zwift users i.e. climbing hills twice as fast as anyone else