Zwift on a non smart trainer

bianchimoon
bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
Any one using it, how does it work if using against people with resistance trainers?
All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
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  • fat daddy
    fat daddy Posts: 2,605
    edited November 2016
    Any one using it, how does it work if using against people with resistance trainers?


    Speed on Zwift is determined by power you output added to the whole weight, size, draft, slope % equation.

    if you don't have a smart trainer, all it means is you don't have resistance coming back to your legs that is controlled by whats happening on the screen.

    so if you are peddaling along at 200w and doing 25mph in the game and hit a hill, your cadence will stay the same the resistance will feel the same, but the speed will suddenly drop to 10mph, if you want to get your speed up you either need to spin a lot faster to hit 300w or manually change the resistance so your cadence stays the same but you generate more power

    All a smart trainer does is change the resistance for you .. oh and have the power meter built in .. if you dotn have a smart trainer you need a power meter
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    fat daddy wrote:
    Any one using it, how does it work if using against people with resistance trainers?


    Speed on Zwift is determined by power you output added to the whole weight, size, draft, slope % equation.

    if you don't have a smart trainer, all it means is you don't have resistance coming back to your legs that is controlled by whats happening on the screen.

    so if you are peddaling along at 200w and doing 25mph in the game and hit a hill, your cadence will stay the same the resistance will feel the same, but the speed will suddenly drop to 10mph, if you want to get your speed up you either need to spin a lot faster to hit 300w or manually change the resistance so your cadence stays the same but you generate more power

    All a smart trainer does is change the resistance for you
    ah, good explanation, dongle arrives tomorrow, looking forward to seeing how it goes - cheers
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • fat daddy wrote:
    All a smart trainer does is change the resistance for you .. oh and have the power meter built in .. if you dotn have a smart trainer you need a power meter

    All true except this part. You don't need a power meter if your trainer is one of those supported by Zwift you can use an ANT+ speed sensor and have Zwift estimate your power output using 'zPower'.
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    fat daddy wrote:
    All a smart trainer does is change the resistance for you .. oh and have the power meter built in .. if you dotn have a smart trainer you need a power meter

    All true except this part. You don't need a power meter if your trainer is one of those supported by Zwift you can use an ANT+ speed sensor and have Zwift estimate your power output using 'zPower'.

    Yes well spotted, I have no power meter, so will be using z power, I did log on, but having no ant dongle till tomorrow obviously couldn't move, am really pi$$ed off tho, not one of those zwift characters stopped to help!!!, bet they don't even wave.. tut


    ;)
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • fat daddy
    fat daddy Posts: 2,605
    and have Zwift estimate your power output using 'zPower'.

    ah, I always wondered what Zpower was ..... it also explains the rants about it and people blaming zpower users for cheating :roll:
  • fat daddy wrote:
    and have Zwift estimate your power output using 'zPower'.

    ah, I always wondered what Zpower was ..... it also explains the rants about it and people blaming zpower users for cheating :roll:

    If a user is using a power meter or smart trainer they'll have a little lightening bolt next to their w/kg figure. If not they're using zPower. And yes, it's very easy for it to be very wrong.
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    fat daddy wrote:
    and have Zwift estimate your power output using 'zPower'.

    ah, I always wondered what Zpower was ..... it also explains the rants about it and people blaming zpower users for cheating :roll:

    If a user is using a power meter or smart trainer they'll have a little lightening bolt next to their w/kg figure. If not they're using zPower. And yes, it's very easy for it to be very wrong.

    It's the way of life unfortunately.. nothings fair and equal, even in the real world peeps will cheat
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • fat daddy
    fat daddy Posts: 2,605
    It's the way of life unfortunately.. nothings fair and equal, even in the real world peeps will cheat


    Oh don't get me wrong, I wasn't complaining, I just read a lot of rants about zpower, but had no idea what they were talking about.

    I don't care if people cheat .. its a computer game. Lots of people beat me, they are either, better than me, fitter than me, faster than me, stronger than me having a better day than me, better equipment than me, prepared better than me, luckier than me, strategically better than me, or even cheated ...... it doesn't make any difference how they beat me .... on the day, they were faster.

    same as in real life really

    its all a game, I try to put as much effort in as I can .. mostly I race myself, its the only known variable that I can compare myself to
  • ...... it also explains the rants about it and people blaming zpower users for cheating :roll:

    I use a classic trainer with an ANT+ usb dongle, and it works really well. I accept that it won't be as accurate as a power meter or a fancy smart trainer, but having measured my power before using the right gear, I know that it is close enough for using Zwift without me feeling like a cheat. My trainer is actually not one of those officially supported by Zwift, but I just found one that is close enough to mine from the same manufacturer and selected that.

    If anyone does accuse you of cheating, ignore, it's only a computer game that can help to keep you motivated while you stay fit over the winter, no more than that. For those that take it more seriously than that, good for them, you just enjoy doing what you are doing.
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    fat daddy wrote:
    It's the way of life unfortunately.. nothings fair and equal, even in the real world peeps will cheat


    .. mostly I race myself, its the only known variable that I can compare myself to

    exactly, i would have thought comparing yourself over previous times on zwift would be more accurate than a local loop on strata where conditions can vary so much
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • Agreed, it matters not one bit. As long as your personal experience is good and it keeps you cycling it's all fine.

    The only area I would say it's an issue is with races where they can get a bit more strict about verifying that your weight and power output is accurate.
  • So it's time to dig out the turbo... I have a garmin with speed and cadence on wy winter bike which I'll be using so assume I just need the Ant+ thingy and download Zwift for two weeks on a free trial to see what it's all about?

    I'll sit my Surface in the conservatory as the screen.
    Advocate of disc brakes.
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    So it's time to dig out the turbo... I have a garmin with speed and cadence on wy winter bike which I'll be using so assume I just need the Ant+ thingy and download Zwift for two weeks on a free trial to see what it's all about?

    I'll sit my Surface in the conservatory as the screen.
    Exactly what I'm doing, dongle from amazon for £10, free trial for 50 kliks or a month whatever comes sooner, if all goes to plan, i'll pay the money over the winter, suspend over spring summer and back on next winter
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • homers_double
    homers_double Posts: 8,160
    edited November 2016
    50km isn't much is it? Thats about a single ride.

    Off to Amazon I go...

    ... Then DL Zwift tonight I think so I'm all set instead of getting frustrated about running out of time when all the stuff arrives. Looking forward to this really.
    Advocate of disc brakes.
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    50km isn't much is it? Thats about a single ride.

    Off to Amazon I go, unless you could be so kind as to reccomend the USB thing you tried (assuming you've got it?)
    ordered mine today so taking pot luck, didn't want to pay £50 for garmins version or £30+ from wiggle, the cheap ones had decent reviews, seems to be all about positioning the dongle right to pick up ant signal, i went for this one
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anself-Compati ... %2B+dongle
    customer reviews said it worked with 800 and Zwift, so fingers crossed
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • Sorry about the edit, but yes thats the one I ordered. Can't go wrng for a tenner really.
    Advocate of disc brakes.
  • This is the one I got which is a bit more https://www.amazon.co.uk/Suunto-Movesti ... move+stick
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    yeah weather forecast for snow here tomorrow eve, so regular wed night ride postponed (plus riding buddy away, so possibly a bit risky out there on hilly country lanes on my own), will play on zwift instead
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    This is the one I got which is a bit more https://www.amazon.co.uk/Suunto-Movesti ... move+stick
    still very good value!
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • Just found out a mate has one I can borrow so will get on it tonight hopefully, just have a bit of sorting out in terms of the bike but nothing major. I suspect the software will take the longest to set up.
    Advocate of disc brakes.
  • shazzz
    shazzz Posts: 1,077
    Anyone know if there is wind on Zwift? Not bottom burps, but simulated head / tail winds that vary depending on the weather - ie you may ride the same route with a head wind one day and a tail wind the next?
  • shazzz wrote:
    Anyone know if there is wind on Zwift? Not bottom burps, but simulated head / tail winds that vary depending on the weather - ie you may ride the same route with a head wind one day and a tail wind the next?

    No, no wind.
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    Just found out a mate has one I can borrow so will get on it tonight hopefully, just have a bit of sorting out in terms of the bike but nothing major. I suspect the software will take the longest to set up.
    a few minutes to download, fill in a few details, height, weight etc, choose your trainer, pair the ant with garmin and looks like it's as simple as that
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • I shall report back tomorrow sir!
    Advocate of disc brakes.
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    Had my first go this eve, was pleasantly surprised, I say pleasantly, covered in sweat and breathing hard, but all in all impressed with the accuracy of zpower. Climb rates and ave speed over the course I did, were there or thereabouts what I would expect given it's a virtual comp simulation. Will almost certainly sign up for the winter
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • Strava Premium members get the rest of the year for free! I've been logging a few Zwift rides of late using rollers and a power meter. It doesn't give the full smart trainer experience, but it's still pretty good.

    Yes well spotted, I have no power meter, so will be using z power, I did log on, but having no ant dongle till tomorrow obviously couldn't move, am really pi$$ed off tho, not one of those zwift characters stopped to help!!!, bet they don't even wave.. tut

    Actually if you press F2 during the game you can wave at people.... lol :lol:
  • ANT+ thingy is still in its wrapper :roll:
    Advocate of disc brakes.
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    ANT+ thingy is still in its wrapper :roll:
    I've had a few goes, signed up for the winter, surprised me at the amount of vitriol on some of the zwift forums to those of us not using a power meter (if your power levels are too high that is!). Get it all the set up right and Zpower levels seem pretty realistic for me averaging approx 150 watts or 160w/k
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • Is the power estimate provided on Strava a realistic output for comparison?

    FWIW I have no interest in my power output and have no intention of buying a power meter - I just ride my bike.
    Advocate of disc brakes.
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    like yourself no real interest in power outputs on the road, I guess you need to take them a little more seriously on zwift as they are so prominent within the zwift graphics, my strava on average seems to be down 20 or so watts, but that could be due to so many factors, as you say aint worth worrying about unless you're doing stooped outputs and peeing off zwift users i.e. climbing hills twice as fast as anyone else
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....