First bike £1000 budget

steve1978

courtmed wrote:

Have you ruled this 2016 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc out?

http://www.rutlandcycling.com/320630/pr ... -grey.aspx

Bought myself one after looking around at a lot of different bikes & couldn't be happier with it! Only had it just over a week but I'd definitely recommend it

Looks like a great road bike but I am looking for a more relaxed geometry so I have been focusing on the adventure bikes

mostly

That attain better sell out soon or my cipollini fund is in danger of getting drained. I'd always thought that due to my back I'd be more suited to a 'relaxed' position turns out I'm in far less pain in an 'aero' set up.
At the end of the day its marketing marketing marketing, if the bike fits use your legs and get on with it

Moonbiker

That steel bike is overpriced for a cromoly frame would be ok if it was 531 or higher with full tiagra

steve1978

Moonbiker wrote:

That steel bike is overpriced for a cromoly frame would be ok if it was 531 or higher with full tiagra

Which one are you referring to bud?

I have my voucher now and its burning a hole!!!

Ahhh i need help! the cube attain is really looking tempting now

Moonbiker

This one:

I'd have this:

http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/roa ... librium-10

Though actually the weight @ 9.76kg isn't too bad for steel.

*this kind of slight adittional weight of steel won't make much difference to your speed average unless you are are planning doing hill climb TT's

That cube looks a bargin.

Hinaultscrapcousin

Moonbiker wrote:

That steel bike is overpriced for a cromoly frame would be ok if it was 531 or higher with full tiagra

Which 531? The one that is currently only available as a special order? 531c? 531ATB? 531st? Which diameter and butting as well?

Bare in mind that 531 needed to be replaced when TIG and MIG welding became common place and that it was replaced with cromoly (520 for lighter applications, 525 for heavier, which are very similar to most decent chromo's on the market) as 531 wasn't good with the higher temperatures experienced with these welding techniques.

As with carbon, not all chromo is equal. Some is junk, some isn't.

secretsam

Steve1978 wrote:

Planet X Full Monty SRAM Apex 1 Hydraulic Disc Road Bike Alu Frame Carbon Forks SRAM 1 Groupset Gears SRAM Hydrolic Brakes £899 http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBPXFMAPEX ... -road-bike

Is the PX a renamed London Road?

Hinaultscrapcousin

SecretSam wrote:

Steve1978 wrote:

Planet X Full Monty SRAM Apex 1 Hydraulic Disc Road Bike Alu Frame Carbon Forks SRAM 1 Groupset Gears SRAM Hydrolic Brakes £899 http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBPXFMAPEX ... -road-bike

Is the PX a renamed London Road?

They still do the London Road. I think the Full Monty can take wider tyres but that's about it. Pretty sure it's still post-mount brakes too rather than flat-mount.

steve1978

I ordered the cube attain carbon from Rutland and the cheeky gits asked me to pay an 11.5% surcharge for 'sales' when I quizzed them they said it was an admin fee for using a cycle voucher! I cancelled went to Evans and bought a 2017 norco search tiagra usually 949 but got it on Black Friday for £899. The girl processed it in under 5 minutes.

I then went and spent the rest of the voucher along with about 11% on extras such as pedals, lights, helmet etc.

Beware of conmen such as Rutland cycles scam!

davesnothere

Steve1978 wrote:

I ordered the cube attain carbon from Rutland and the cheeky gits asked me to pay an 11.5% surcharge for 'sales' when I quizzed them they said it was an admin fee for using a cycle voucher! I cancelled went to Evans and bought a 2017 norco search tiagra usually 949 but got it on Black Friday for £899. The girl processed it in under 5 minutes.

I then went and spent the rest of the voucher along with about 11% on extras such as pedals, lights, helmet etc.

Beware of conmen such as Rutland cycles scam!

I've just found the same thing with both Rutland and Hargroves (12% with Hargroves) Bit of a fucker as I am keen on the bike, trying to negotiate them giving me the £120 back in accessories. Evans will give you £60 anyway I believe?

Hinaultscrapcousin

Steve1978 wrote:

I ordered the cube attain carbon from Rutland and the cheeky gits asked me to pay an 11.5% surcharge for 'sales' when I quizzed them they said it was an admin fee for using a cycle voucher! I cancelled went to Evans and bought a 2017 norco search tiagra usually 949 but got it on Black Friday for £899. The girl processed it in under 5 minutes.

I then went and spent the rest of the voucher along with about 11% on extras such as pedals, lights, helmet etc.

Beware of conmen such as Rutland cycles scam!

They do state that any bike below RRP will incur and additional charge to cover the providers administration fees.

Rather than calling people conmen you should actually read the terms and conditions. From their website:

Can I choose bikes and accessories on sale?
Any bike/accessory that has a reduced RRP can be purchased through Cycle to Work, but will incur an additional charge, to cover the provider’s administration fees. Unfortunately, our ex-hire and ex-demo bikes are excluded from this scheme.

http://www.rutlandcycling.com/content/c ... cling.aspx

Frank Wilson

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

Steve1978 wrote:

I ordered the cube attain carbon from Rutland and the cheeky gits asked me to pay an 11.5% surcharge for 'sales' when I quizzed them they said it was an admin fee for using a cycle voucher! I cancelled went to Evans and bought a 2017 norco search tiagra usually 949 but got it on Black Friday for £899. The girl processed it in under 5 minutes.

I then went and spent the rest of the voucher along with about 11% on extras such as pedals, lights, helmet etc.

Beware of conmen such as Rutland cycles scam!

They do state that any bike below RRP will incur and additional charge to cover the providers administration fees.

Rather than calling people conmen you should actually read the terms and conditions. From their website:

Can I choose bikes and accessories on sale?
Any bike/accessory that has a reduced RRP can be purchased through Cycle to Work, but will incur an additional charge, to cover the provider’s administration fees. Unfortunately, our ex-hire and ex-demo bikes are excluded from this scheme.

http://www.rutlandcycling.com/content/c ... cling.aspx

Perhaps all these Cycle to Work people should try working for an employer who doesn't provide it then they might have reason to whinge and less face it how many people who have this perk actually do "cycle to work"

kingrollo

DavesNotHere wrote:

Steve1978 wrote:

I ordered the cube attain carbon from Rutland and the cheeky gits asked me to pay an 11.5% surcharge for 'sales' when I quizzed them they said it was an admin fee for using a cycle voucher! I cancelled went to Evans and bought a 2017 norco search tiagra usually 949 but got it on Black Friday for £899. The girl processed it in under 5 minutes.

I then went and spent the rest of the voucher along with about 11% on extras such as pedals, lights, helmet etc.

Beware of conmen such as Rutland cycles scam!

I've just found the same thing with both Rutland and Hargroves (12% with Hargroves) Bit of a ****** as I am keen on the bike, trying to negotiate them giving me the £120 back in accessories. Evans will give you £60 anyway I believe?

Just to clarify if needed. There is no requirement from cyclescheme for the customer to be charged an admin fee on sale or any items. I know I emailed cyclescheme and asked.
Sure every bike they sell under the scheme they pay cyclescheme a fee ( i think 10%) - but they must know this at the outset so if the shop comes "those nasty guys at cyclescheme are taking all my profits" - they aren't. The shop isn't compelled to use cyclescheme - they do it to sell more bikes - and make more profit.

on a further point - the scheme isn't was it was and an interest free credit with say 24 months 0% on purchases comes pretty close to cyclescheme by the time you add on all the fees -extended loan, and transfer of ownership payments

Hinaultscrapcousin

Let's say a company is offering a bike at 20% less than retail. If someone wants to buy that bike on the cycle to work scheme the retailer is then, in effect, expected to sell the bike at a 30% discount in terms of their profits. Clearly smaller retailers can't afford to do this so they clearly state that if you wish to buy a reduced bike there will be an extra cost. There is nothing wrong with that, if you don't want to pay the fee then buy the bike outright.

kingrollo

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

Let's say a company is offering a bike at 20% less than retail. If someone wants to buy that bike on the cycle to work scheme the retailer is then, in effect, expected to sell the bike at a 30% discount in terms of their profits. Clearly smaller retailers can't afford to do this so they clearly state that if you wish to buy a reduced bike there will be an extra cost. There is nothing wrong with that, if you don't want to pay the fee then buy the bike outright.

But that is all down to the retailer decision. The shop can sellat 30% less if it wishes and feels it can afford to. The cyclescheme terms don't alter because of sale items.

Hinaultscrapcousin

kingrollo wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

Let's say a company is offering a bike at 20% less than retail. If someone wants to buy that bike on the cycle to work scheme the retailer is then, in effect, expected to sell the bike at a 30% discount in terms of their profits. Clearly smaller retailers can't afford to do this so they clearly state that if you wish to buy a reduced bike there will be an extra cost. There is nothing wrong with that, if you don't want to pay the fee then buy the bike outright.

But that is all down to the retailer decision. The shop can sellat 30% less if it wishes and feels it can afford to. The cyclescheme terms don't alter because of sale items.

I know, but posts up thread seem to say that the shop is charging an admin fee related to the voucher. They're not, they're charging it because someone is using a voucher on a discounted product. They are not claiming that the cyclescheme makes them do it, they do it because otherwise there is no point in them making the sale.

steve1978

Thanks all for the feedback. In the end I went for the norco search 2017 tiagra for 899.

I tried to buy the cube but they wanted a 11.5% surcharge as I was on a cycle to work voucher. Personally I think that this is an absolute atrocity. My employer has given the cycle scheme £1000 which I will pay my employer back. For this Rutland want almost £150 on top. Discussing IMO

Hinaultscrapcousin

Steve1978 wrote:

Thanks all for the feedback. In the end I went for the norco search 2017 tiagra for 899.

I tried to buy the cube but they wanted a 11.5% surcharge as I was on a cycle to work voucher. Personally I think that this is an absolute atrocity. My employer has given the cycle scheme £1000 which I will pay my employer back. For this Rutland want almost £150 on top. Discussing IMO

What is "disgusting" is calling a company conmen when you can't be bothered to read their terms and conditions. It's very clear, it's on their website and it's perfectly acceptable.

mrfpb

DavesNotHere wrote:

Steve1978 wrote:

I ordered the cube attain carbon from Rutland and the cheeky gits asked me to pay an 11.5% surcharge for 'sales' when I quizzed them they said it was an admin fee for using a cycle voucher! I cancelled went to Evans and bought a 2017 norco search tiagra usually 949 but got it on Black Friday for £899. The girl processed it in under 5 minutes.

I then went and spent the rest of the voucher along with about 11% on extras such as pedals, lights, helmet etc.

Beware of conmen such as Rutland cycles scam!

I've just found the same thing with both Rutland and Hargroves (12% with Hargroves) Bit of a ****** as I am keen on the bike, trying to negotiate them giving me the £120 back in accessories. Evans will give you £60 anyway I believe?

Planet X also add 10% on cycle t work bikes. I ended up getting 12months interest free credit at another store on a sale bike, it worked out cheaper and a lot less hassle than the C2W scheme.

I think Planet X were more upfront about the 10%. I don't know if Steve1978 said upfront that he was using C2W, but you shouldn't have to wait till checkout to be told about the surcharge. It is in the t&cs at Rutland, but you have to go looking in detail.

I hope you are enjoying your bike Steve, and let us know if you are keeping up with your mate.

davesnothere

mrfpb wrote:

DavesNotHere wrote:

Steve1978 wrote:

I ordered the cube attain carbon from Rutland and the cheeky gits asked me to pay an 11.5% surcharge for 'sales' when I quizzed them they said it was an admin fee for using a cycle voucher! I cancelled went to Evans and bought a 2017 norco search tiagra usually 949 but got it on Black Friday for £899. The girl processed it in under 5 minutes.

I then went and spent the rest of the voucher along with about 11% on extras such as pedals, lights, helmet etc.

Beware of conmen such as Rutland cycles scam!

I've just found the same thing with both Rutland and Hargroves (12% with Hargroves) Bit of a ****** as I am keen on the bike, trying to negotiate them giving me the £120 back in accessories. Evans will give you £60 anyway I believe?

Planet X also add 10% on cycle t work bikes. I ended up getting 12months interest free credit at another store on a sale bike, it worked out cheaper and a lot less hassle than the C2W scheme.

I think Planet X were more upfront about the 10%. I don't know if Steve1978 said upfront that he was using C2W, but you shouldn't have to wait till checkout to be told about the surcharge. It is in the t&cs at Rutland, but you have to go looking in detail.

I hope you are enjoying your bike Steve, and let us know if you are keeping up with your mate.

My issue was really that Hargroves don't charge it on standard price bikes only on the sale bikes, they don't appear to be budging on it. I take the point above re: margin vs reduced margin on sale bikes. The Cube still looks good value at £1,000 plus 12% TBH, going for a quick test ride on Saturday so may well be grinning and bearing it if it rides as nice as it looks

steve1978

What really frustrates me is that my employer HAS PAID £1000 to the cycle scheme. That money has gone, they have it.

They then charge a shop for me to cash it. Con number 1

The shop charge £999 for bike to any one who pays cash, card or finance, If you use a voucher you pay 12% more, con number 2

These fees almost totally nullify the benefits of the cycle scheme, it's funny that Evans nor wiggle charge any fees. And correct me if I am wrong, but I couldn't see the percentage listed in the advert. I just think that if it was advertised on the webpage with the bike. £999 (£1115 for cycle certificate) I would at least know. Very frustrating and people should be aware of this.

Anyway, love the norco. Got it last week took it to work on Monday and plan to again on Friday. Also went out last weekend. Really loving it, slight noise when in top gear but will get that sorted on my 6 week free service. Thanks Evans Liverpool.

Hinaultscrapcousin

Steve1978 wrote:

The shop charge £999 for bike to any one who pays cash, card or finance, If you use a voucher you pay 12% more, con number 2

These fees almost totally nullify the benefits of the cycle scheme, it's funny that Evans nor wiggle charge any fees. And correct me if I am wrong, but I couldn't see the percentage listed in the advert. I just think that if it was advertised on the webpage with the bike. £999 (£1115 for cycle certificate) I would at least know. Very frustrating and people should be aware of this.

It is not a con, stop talking rubbish. It's listed on the website. YOU didn't do your due diligence and YOU didn't read the terms and conditions. That's not their fault, it's yours. It's very clear why they do this they're not the same size as Wiggle, Evans, CRC etc. and don't use the same sales model (which as cyclists we should actually support where we can).

I agree, if it's a flat rate they should state the rate, or if it's a percentage they should state the percentage, but a 2 minute phone call would have let you find that out.

Anyway, love the norco. Got it last week took it to work on Monday and plan to again on Friday. Also went out last weekend. Really loving it, slight noise when in top gear but will get that sorted on my 6 week free service. Thanks Evans Liverpool

Glad you like the bike, Norco's don't get enough love and they really do make some nice bikes. What kind of noise? I wouldn't leave it for 6 weeks, in the most extreme gears it'll most likely be a limit screw either on the front or rear derailleur, very quick fix.

kingrollo

I think we are talking how we define 'con'

I always smile when I hear it can be a con because its in the terms and conditions (well so is the 1289% interest charged by pay day loan companies !). I think whats meant is , they aren't doing anything illegal.

I think its fair to assume that shops who offer C2W sell more bikes than those who don't - or else they wouldn't bother. The charging is IMO very similar to passing on charges that shops used to when buying on a credit card - as the shops pay a fee to accept such payments. So the attempt was to pass on this 'business costs' to the customer (subsequently outlawed for most resellers now). A cycle shop will have many such other business costs, rent, insurance, lighting and heating - you don't directly see this costs added on as you pay for your new bike " Ah well there's an extra £25 to pay mate as Ive had the heating on today"

Personally they must know there a good chance that someone will want to buy a sale bike on C2W - So really its as though they lure you in - then hope you're still interested when they up the price by 10%. Personally I wouldn't deal with anyone that operates in such a manner.

As I have said previously though a good interest free on purchases credit card will in most cases match if not beat cyclescheme - its pretty much a busted flush IMO.

niallmo

I chose to get mine from a company that doesn't charge the fee. I looked at a lot of online retailers and emailed a few about charges. I studied the T&C's before making a decision. My bike is already discounted from £1500 to just under £1k and then tax taken off which means it'll end up costing me £664. With the right bike the scheme can still produce almost miraculous savings.

Even with my employer being charged the discounted price I can easily see why smaller retailers would be seriously threatening their margins and would charge the extra, it's a choice you make, it's in the T&C's. It's not a con.

mrfpb

Of course C2W can be viewed as a con as you pay for your bike twice - the full new cost out of your gross salary each month, then a year later, if you want to keep the the bike you've paid for, you then pay the full second hand value. What a con! What a rip off! etc, etc

davesnothere

mrfpb wrote:

Of course C2W can be viewed as a con as you pay for your bike twice - the full new cost out of your gross salary each month, then a year later, if you want to keep the the bike you've paid for, you then pay the full second hand value. What a con! What a rip off! etc, etc

You pay max 3% if original value was under £500 or max 7% £500 - £1,000 so £70 effectively

No brainer for me, I save 40% tax plus my NI, interest free loan from my employer for a year.

I get a brand new £1,000 bike, costs me circa £60 pcm then a one off payment of £70