PF30 bottom brackets

munkster

Planning ahead for when (not if, I guess) my PF30 bottom bracket starts creaking I am looking at the Hope PF46 which appeals since the two cups are tied together. Factoring in the proprietary Hope installation tool we're looking at over £100 which would be OK if it makes for a future-proof solution where I can just replace bearings down the line.

Are there any other options I should be looking at that aren't just the bog-standard SRAM one? I don't want to go down the conversion route (I have SRAM 30mm axle chainset and am happy with it) so it's either the Hope or CK I guess? Any experience of those? Anyone know about the Wheels Mfg one? Praxis? My LBS seems to think they both do "pure" BB30 options (rather than a conversion option) but I can't seem to find them.

Anyone? Cheers! ;-)

sloppyschleckonds

Think id find a new LBS if they couldn't fit a PF30 properly.

munkster

Eh? Who said the LBS fitted anything?

To elaborate: the BB is the one fitted when new, it hasn't broken/failed/anything as yet but as is well documented, there's every chance it's only a matter of time. I am merely just researching what to get if/when it happens. I will fit it myself. As it happens the same LBS doesn't have the Hope tool (I asked) but probably would've got them to do it had they had it.

giropaul

C-Bear from Belgium, it's what several pro teams use ( and pay for!) instead of the groupset ones.

munkster

Interesting, many thanks.

stueys

Just fitted a c-bear pf30 onto my bike. Can't recommend highly enough, top quality.

stueys

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Think id find a new LBS if they couldn't fit a PF30 properly.

PF bb's are a flawed design, purely there to reduce manufacture costs. It's nuts that we all now accept that glue is the answer to the highest stressed part of the bike. My money is that in five years time 60%+ of bikes are back on a threaded standard.

ZMC888

Stueys wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Think id find a new LBS if they couldn't fit a PF30 properly.

PF bb's are a flawed design, purely there to reduce manufacture costs. It's nuts that we all now accept that glue is the answer to the highest stressed part of the bike. My money is that in five years time 60%+ of bikes are back on a threaded standard.

That's probable, but it doesn't give that many options for decent bikes in the mean time.

Secteur

munkster wrote:

Eh? Who said the LBS fitted anything?

New bikes arrive at the LBS without the BB installed, generally, and so he LBs will fit it when they build up the factory fresh new bike.

I bet less than 1-in-a-1000 BB30's creak or cause problems, but people get so hysterical about it here (including myself, briefly, when I thought my brand new BB30 was creaking years ago - turned out to be something else).

Creaking isn't inevitable at all - just ensure the BB is installed properly and it's very unlikely you'll have problems.

If you have a cheap frame that doesn't have a perfect BB shell, then converting may be required, but it's not a sure thing.

I do agree though that a return to threaded, covered BB's would be welcome, and I hope the bike industry goes back there.

smudgerii

Going to have to show my 'newbie' ignorance...

Does anyone have any links to vids explaining all this BB malarky?

munkster

New bikes arrive at the LBS without the BB installed, generally, and so he LBs will fit it when they build up the factory fresh new bike.

Really? Every day is a school day... I didn't know that, and find it hard to believe but if you say so!

Point taken that it's not necessarily imminent but all BBs wear out (if you're doing significant miles) so my original "which BB should I forward plan for" question remains appropriate I feel, no hysteria here ;-)

fat daddy

are bb30's all the same fitments ?

I have a square taper bb-un52 in a 73mm shell, But want to upgrade to a new chainset, with so many choices of bb30, GPX, mt800 etc .... how do I know what will fit in the shell ?

stueys

Smudgerii wrote:

Going to have to show my 'newbie' ignorance...

Does anyone have any links to vids explaining all this BB malarky?

The summary,
- for years we had threaded bottom brackets. The bb screws into the frame and provided a secure fitment. This was good as the bottom bracket is the bit all your effort hits.
- manufacturers moved to press fit, they did this because (a) they would strip frame threads in production fitting threaded brackets, which resulted in a trashed frame. So press fit saves them production cost. (B) consumers were targeting lower weight and press fit weighs less, so it helps the sales numbers
- from a consumer perspective you could have a press fit bracket with no issues at all. But over time a press fit bracket has a higher risk of creaking as it's not a secured fitting, it's merely pressed in. The slightest issue in frame tolerance will cause a problem. Manufacturer advise on fitting started to move from not using epoxy resin during fitting to using it, in essence glueing the bb in to provide more stability. Most mechanics will now do that. Note that some high end manufacturers have retained threaded and didn't move to press fit
- the issue got worse as manufacturers all decided having their own standard was a nice way to differentiate. Cannondale really created bb30, cervelo did bbright, them evo came along, etc, etc. So we now have a number of press fit standards, personally I think they are all pretty much the same, there isn't a better one.
- there is an emerging groundswell to move back to threaded. Chris king and praxis are championing a standard, the view is that manufacturers who all pushed us to press fit will have a hard time doing a turnaround.

This article is good http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/c ... ets-36660/
-

munkster

Any view on the Hope solution where the two press-fit cups screw into each other then? Are there any other systems like it (that preferably don't require a proprietary tool?)

Assuming I have a PF30 frame and that that's not changing any time soon? ;-)

arlowood

Smudgerii wrote:

Going to have to show my 'newbie' ignorance...

Does anyone have any links to vids explaining all this BB malarky?

Just to expand a bit on Stuey's excellent summary above and also to highlight the crazy multi-specification situation we are now in. Have a quick peruse of this pdf from C-Bear listing all the BB types and specs and the various bearing types needed to run specific groupset cranks

https://www.c-bear.com/bbchart.pdf

thomasmorris

munkster wrote:

Any view on the Hope solution where the two press-fit cups screw into each other then? Are there any other systems like it (that preferably don't require a proprietary tool?)

Assuming I have a PF30 frame and that that's not changing any time soon? ;-)

The screw together solution is in my opinion better than the original press fit. BY screwing together the cups you ensure they are aligned, prolonging bearing wear. They don't really on such tight frame / cup size tolerance to ensure a movement (creak) free fit. The only downside is there is more material, so a little heavier (not sure but within ~50g).

Hope are not the only solution as already mentioned. Praxis, C-bear (EDIT:not sure this is screw together), WheelsMFG all do screw together pressfit30.

I have wheelsMFG (albeit BBright, essentially offset PF30) and it's been excellent. Installed with bottom bracket wrench (16-notch for 48.5mm OD cups). As far as I'm aware the other install the same way as well.

Secteur

I think a good solution would be for manufacturers to simply keep the press fit type frames (for their cost / manufacturing reasons), but to use C-bear style BBs which screw together internally.

Best of both worlds, and everyone stays happy?!

stueys

I fitted a CBear PF30 BB two weeks back and the two cups weren't a screw together version. Not to say that they don't do them. Irrespective it's a great piece of kit, extremely well made and very performant. I'm delighted with it.

Secteur

Apologies - I have no experience of C-bear - I just assumed they were screw-together like (I think) WheelsMfg are?

I shouldn't have used a brand name as an example - I just meant the generic ones that screw together so you know the bearings are tightly tied together at a set distance apart, and aren't going to move.

munkster

Anyone know where to buy the WheelsMfg ones in the U.K. or do they need to be bought directly? They still need a bespoke installation tool though I think?

I get the impresssion that the Praxis ones are no good for a 30mm crank though?

banditvic

Any UK stockists of C-Bear Bearings?

stueys

Just email them, Bart responds very quickly and posts the bearing out to you. Mine took 2 days and I paid with PayPal (I think). Website is https://www.c-bear.com Any queries on which bottom bracket you need they answer on email.

This article came up as well when I googled the c-bear website. Good review of them http://cyclingtips.com/2015/09/first-lo ... -brackets/

I'm toying with trying their jockey wheels when mine need swapping. If anyone has tried then I'd be interested to hear.

smudgerii

arlowood wrote:

Smudgerii wrote:

Going to have to show my 'newbie' ignorance...

Does anyone have any links to vids explaining all this BB malarky?

Just to expand a bit on Stuey's excellent summary above and also to highlight the crazy multi-specification situation we are now in. Have a quick peruse of this pdf from C-Bear listing all the BB types and specs and the various bearing types needed to run specific groupset cranks

https://www.c-bear.com/bbchart.pdf

Thanks to you both.. The more I learn the better

thomasmorris

munkster wrote:

Anyone know where to buy the WheelsMfg ones in the U.K. or do they need to be bought directly?

I think you can buy direct or ring and ask for stockists. I got mine through local bike shop SouthDownsBikes, whose sourced them in specially.

munkster wrote:

They still need a bespoke installation tool though I think?

As I said in my earlier post, they just use a standard BB wrench.

thomasmorris wrote:

Installed with bottom bracket wrench (16-notch for 48.5mm OD cups). As far as I'm aware the other install the same way as well.

alex222

This recent podcast is well worth a listen
http://cyclingtips.com/2016/10/cyclingt ... se-of-t47/

munkster

they just use a standard BB wrench

When you say "standard" do you mean HT2 cup wrench standard? I have one of those but I get the impression that isn't 48.5mm. Appreciate the help, thanks.

svetty

Wheels manufacturing works fine for me - I sourced mine through Westbrook cycles. I was tempted by Hope and do try and buy from them but the faffing around with their bespoke tool was a hurdle to purchase I couldn't get over

munkster

Wheels manufacturing works fine for me

Yeah, think I'm going to go down this route, my LBS will price match for me they say.

How have you found the Wheels Mfg BB so far? Have you put many miles into it? Did you fit it yourself? Do you need one or two of the BB install tools? The Wheels Mfg website says (x 2) but I'm not sure if that's what they mean.

Cheers!

thomasmorris

munkster wrote:

they just use a standard BB wrench

When you say "standard" do you mean HT2 cup wrench standard? I have one of those but I get the impression that isn't 48.5mm. Appreciate the help, thanks.

Not the HTII. I meant standard as in, it isn't unique to WheelsMFG, like the hope tool is to hope.

Parktool BBT-29, one end is for the old shimano HTII (which incidentally won't fit the new shimano, even with the supplied adaptor, but that's another rant!). The other end is 16t 48.5mm (FSA Mega evo standard).

I had a pressfit BBright (pretty much same as PF30) for 100km, it creaked a little. Put in the wheelsMFG and done 7,500k trouble free (although it is on my race bike which sees less rubbish weather).

When I was buying I was only aware of wheelsMFG which did BBright for 24mm axle without shims and screwed together (a pretty specific BB!). I think they may still be the only option for this very specific requirement!

munkster

Nice one, thanks matey, that was what I thought was the case. I have at least two HT2 tools in the toolbox that's all (and yes, the new adapter wotsit was a surprise when a BB came with that!) so didn't particularly want to buy another. The Park one looks like it's the only option then. Cheers.

andyh01

Before I sink £2k in a do it all gravel type bike as the my main commuter bike to be used all yr round @ 12 miles per day bike, how "good" are the GXP type BB - Its on £1k Planet X Titanium frame with Ultegra groupset? If the standard is likely to change how easy will a GXP type BB likely to be to convert. How reliable are they and can they be changed to a std threaded type if I do encounter any issues with them?
I currently have a TRek 2.1 which I think is std thread with a dura ace bb and in the 1st instance I would to swap out for this in the event of an issue with the new bike would they be compatible?
Thanks all