Etape Loch Ness 2017

slowbike

Advanced entry is open ...

£66 per entry though - lot of dosh - but a nice route

timboellis

Yeah i got the advanced entry however not sure ill take it , it is a bit steep then having to stay overnight puts it up to over £100 or so.

Im doing Mull just a month after that so will just do local one before it up in Sutherlan

crescent

Unfortunately this seems to be going the same way as most of the Etape series of sportives - a victim of its own success. I applied and received my entry for next year but have since cancelled it. I did the first year in 2014 and it cost me about £120 all in for accommodation, travel and entry fees. This year it was going to cost double that. I don't have a problem paying the entry fee but as a matter of principle I don't agree with all the hotels hiking up their prices now that they've cottoned on to the lucrative nature of charity events. I expect they'll insist on a minimum 2-3 night stay next the same way Pitlochry does during the EC weekend. I will donate my entry fee directly to Macmillan.

Hinaultscrapcousin

They don't allow fixed wheels (which is stupid) so I won't be riding, but to be honest you could easily just ride it whenever you wanted and avoid all the extra expense.

Hinaultscrapcousin

It's really not that lumpy though, certainly easier than a lot of the stuff round the West Coast where I ride.

I just don't see why they would ban fixed wheels, seems silly.

zimbob1000

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

It's really not that lumpy though, certainly easier than a lot of the stuff round the West Coast where I ride.

I just don't see why they would ban fixed wheels, seems silly.

You could always turn up with the fixie, and chance it - I spotted at least one person riding fixed last year, just a blur of legs going down Whitebridge

Hinaultscrapcousin

zimbob1000 wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

It's really not that lumpy though, certainly easier than a lot of the stuff round the West Coast where I ride.

I just don't see why they would ban fixed wheels, seems silly.

You could always turn up with the fixie, and chance it - I spotted at least one person riding fixed last year, just a blur of legs going down Whitebridge

It's sold out now. I did consider contacting them and asking for clarification but I'm still thinking about doing the Dirty Riever.

slowbike

I can understand banning TT bikes or aerobars - as it's a big group event and you don't want some 1/2wit riding around without quick access to brakes.

I don't think they particually think about their "rules" anyway

All participants must adhere to the minimum speed of 13mph.

Really ... at all times? What about the first 5 seconds after the start?
If I could do the big climb at 13mph that would be good - 25 out of 5000 people have done it faster than 13mph ... but that's average so I suspect they've gone slower on some bits ...

Anyway - I'm riding the event (hopefully faster than 13mph elapsed average) but haven't got any training of note in - too many other things going wrong - eg little boy getting ill and then passing it on!

Hinaultscrapcousin

Is poorly worded. Basically the broom wagon will get to the finish as if the whole ride had been done at 13mph (although that speed doesn't chime with their 5 hours 38 minutes). If you're slower than that they may insist you get in the wagon.

slowbike

Yes - it is poorly worded - and if you search through my posting history on this subject you'll see I had a "discussion" with them in the inaugural event.
They start the fastest riders off first and slowest last - then start the 13mph broom wagon - wording says straight after the last starter. The start quickly goes into a climb - where your slower riders are not going to want to blow up by maintaining 13mph - so theoretically they'd be swept straight away. In practice they did allow a bit of time - but even so, we came across one starter who had 2 punctures early on and was "swept" - yet her pace meant she overtook the sweep vehicle by the top of the main climb 1/2 way round the course.

They'd do better to say they'll sweep anyone not having cleared the section of the course by a predetermined time - and set the slower riders off in small groups early on to give them time - it's not like the A82 is narrow!

Anyway - hopefully we'll have bypassed their "slower timed riders" algorythm by putting in a quicker time = earlier start ... so raspberries to them!

ugo.santalucia

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

It's really not that lumpy though, certainly easier than a lot of the stuff round the West Coast where I ride.

I just don't see why they would ban fixed wheels, seems silly.

The course lends itself to fixed gear... with the exception of the climb out of Fort Augustus is basically as flat as it possibly gets in Scotland. It seems a rather inclusive event, I;d be surprised if they banned anyone from starting on the grounds of not having a freewheel... how would they know in the first place?

It doesn't fit my stringent rule: "if the ride is shorter than the drive to get there, it's not worth bothering"

slowbike

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It doesn't fit my stringent rule: "if the ride is shorter than the drive to get there, it's not worth bothering"

I'm sure they'd let you do the course twice ...

Seriously - it's a nice route - especially with the closed roads - and the locals we saw and spoke to were all in favour. I really wouldn't want to ride the A82 normally - I've driven it ...

ugo.santalucia

Slowbike wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It doesn't fit my stringent rule: "if the ride is shorter than the drive to get there, it's not worth bothering"

I'm sure they'd let you do the course twice ...

Seriously - it's a nice route - especially with the closed roads - and the locals we saw and spoke to were all in favour. I really wouldn't want to ride the A82 normally - I've driven it ...

I'm sure it is, but it's too far to drive, too early in the season to go so far up north and not enough of a challenge in terms of the course... the weather can be challenging, but it's not the kind of challenge I relish, to be honest... it's also too expensive once you factor in a minimum 2 night stay, a couple of tanks of petrol at the very least, 66 quid for the ride itself... it easily ramps up to "a monkey"

Hinaultscrapcousin

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

It's really not that lumpy though, certainly easier than a lot of the stuff round the West Coast where I ride.

I just don't see why they would ban fixed wheels, seems silly.

The course lends itself to fixed gear... with the exception of the climb out of Fort Augustus is basically as flat as it possibly gets in Scotland. It seems a rather inclusive event, I;d be surprised if they banned anyone from starting on the grounds of not having a freewheel... how would they know in the first place?

It doesn't fit my stringent rule: "if the ride is shorter than the drive to get there, it's not worth bothering"

It's in their rules, no idea if they enforce. Not too far from Glasgow and I have the possibility of a free entry, new flat probably means no chance though like the Etape Du Dales (For me the Etape wouldn't fit your rules I think!).

Slowbike wrote:

Yes - it is poorly worded - and if you search through my posting history on this subject you'll see I had a "discussion" with them in the inaugural event.
They start the fastest riders off first and slowest last - then start the 13mph broom wagon - wording says straight after the last starter. The start quickly goes into a climb - where your slower riders are not going to want to blow up by maintaining 13mph - so theoretically they'd be swept straight away. In practice they did allow a bit of time - but even so, we came across one starter who had 2 punctures early on and was "swept" - yet her pace meant she overtook the sweep vehicle by the top of the main climb 1/2 way round the course.

They'd do better to say they'll sweep anyone not having cleared the section of the course by a predetermined time - and set the slower riders off in small groups early on to give them time - it's not like the A82 is narrow!

Anyway - hopefully we'll have bypassed their "slower timed riders" algorythm by putting in a quicker time = earlier start ... so raspberries to them!

Sounds like they're trying to keep locals happy by opening roads as quickly as possible.

Yeah, they could just set a hard limit at a checkpoint and do it that way. Also starting faster riders first always annoys me at these events. It's not a race, let people start when they want.

bompington

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

Yeah, they could just set a hard limit at a checkpoint and do it that way. Also starting faster riders first always annoys me at these events. It's not a race, let people start when they want.

Well yes, I would agree with that. But it's not very logical to have lots of slow people in front of lots of fast people, is it? In fact, we could start with the slowest first to absolutely guarantee the maximum possible amount of overtaking. I haven't done the Etape Cal for a few years but the congestion on some of the narrow roads got pretty bad in places, I would worry that it would be similar on some of the roads south of Loch Ness.
Or are you suggesting that faster riders should all just pootle along behind the slowest because, well, not a race?

Hinaultscrapcousin

bompington wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

Yeah, they could just set a hard limit at a checkpoint and do it that way. Also starting faster riders first always annoys me at these events. It's not a race, let people start when they want.

Well yes, I would agree with that. But it's not very logical to have lots of slow people in front of lots of fast people, is it? In fact, we could start with the slowest first to absolutely guarantee the maximum possible amount of overtaking. I haven't done the Etape Cal for a few years but the congestion on some of the narrow roads got pretty bad in places, I would worry that it would be similar on some of the roads south of Loch Ness.
Or are you suggesting that faster riders should all just pootle along behind the slowest because, well, not a race?

Yes and overtake when it's clear.

ugo.santalucia

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It doesn't fit my stringent rule: "if the ride is shorter than the drive to get there, it's not worth bothering"

It's in their rules, no idea if they enforce. Not too far from Glasgow and I have the possibility of a free entry, new flat probably means no chance though like the Etape Du Dales (For me the Etape wouldn't fit your rules I think!).

.

It's the "drive to get there" not the total drive... otherwise most rides would be out.

For me a drive to Inverness is probably north of 8 hours... this is a 5:30 hour event...

The Etape is a 7-9 hour event depending on ability and weather, I doubt it would take you that long from Glasgow... 4 hours maybe?

Hinaultscrapcousin

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It doesn't fit my stringent rule: "if the ride is shorter than the drive to get there, it's not worth bothering"

It's in their rules, no idea if they enforce. Not too far from Glasgow and I have the possibility of a free entry, new flat probably means no chance though like the Etape Du Dales (For me the Etape wouldn't fit your rules I think!).

.

It's the "drive to get there" not the total drive... otherwise most rides would be out.

For me a drive to Inverness is probably north of 8 hours... this is a 5:30 hour event...

The Etape is a 7-9 hour event depending on ability and weather, I doubt it would take you that long from Glasgow... 4 hours maybe?

Probably 4 hours, but would I have to include the overnight and possibly after?

ugo.santalucia

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

Probably 4 hours, but would I have to include the overnight and possibly after?

There is that... you can drive back on the same day... it's entirely doable, I decided to stay 2 nights... it's difficult to get a B&B for one night anyway
Plus the beers after the ride are always the best and in Yorkshire they are pretty good indeed

slowbike

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

bompington wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

Yeah, they could just set a hard limit at a checkpoint and do it that way. Also starting faster riders first always annoys me at these events. It's not a race, let people start when they want.

Well yes, I would agree with that. But it's not very logical to have lots of slow people in front of lots of fast people, is it? In fact, we could start with the slowest first to absolutely guarantee the maximum possible amount of overtaking. I haven't done the Etape Cal for a few years but the congestion on some of the narrow roads got pretty bad in places, I would worry that it would be similar on some of the roads south of Loch Ness.
Or are you suggesting that faster riders should all just pootle along behind the slowest because, well, not a race?

Yes and overtake when it's clear.

Exactly - the choke point when we did the 2014 version was right at the start within the first mile - once we were on the A82 it was wide and plently of room for everyone - if they pushed the slowest riders off towards the beginning of the window they'd give them a bit more time/leeway - it's not rocket science - but I suppose increasing numbers means pressure on the organisers for minimum conflict - so it's easier to set the slowest ones off at the back - where they'll remain getting further and further behind the leaders ...

There is a race element - in that they have a competition for KOM - but that's not till ~40 miles in - giving the field plenty of time to disappate.

As for the drive there - we did 12 hours to get there in 2014 ... flying up this time.

ugo.santalucia

Slowbike wrote:

As for the drive there - we did 12 hours to get there in 2014 ... flying up this time.

Takes me about the same to drive to Italy...

Hinaultscrapcousin

Slowbike wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

bompington wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

Yeah, they could just set a hard limit at a checkpoint and do it that way. Also starting faster riders first always annoys me at these events. It's not a race, let people start when they want.

Well yes, I would agree with that. But it's not very logical to have lots of slow people in front of lots of fast people, is it? In fact, we could start with the slowest first to absolutely guarantee the maximum possible amount of overtaking. I haven't done the Etape Cal for a few years but the congestion on some of the narrow roads got pretty bad in places, I would worry that it would be similar on some of the roads south of Loch Ness.
Or are you suggesting that faster riders should all just pootle along behind the slowest because, well, not a race?

Yes and overtake when it's clear.

Exactly - the choke point when we did the 2014 version was right at the start within the first mile - once we were on the A82 it was wide and plently of room for everyone - if they pushed the slowest riders off towards the beginning of the window they'd give them a bit more time/leeway - it's not rocket science - but I suppose increasing numbers means pressure on the organisers for minimum conflict - so it's easier to set the slowest ones off at the back - where they'll remain getting further and further behind the leaders ...

There is a race element - in that they have a competition for KOM - but that's not till ~40 miles in - giving the field plenty of time to disappate.

As for the drive there - we did 12 hours to get there in 2014 ... flying up this time.

To be honest I wouldn't even gate by speed, just let people turn up and start when they want with hard limits of when you need to reach a checkpoint. If you're desperate to get out early, either to finish first or make sure you finish you can start early, otherwise you can start later and just pick your way through. It's all individual timing so doesn't matter when you start, just when you cross the start and finish lines. I'd be looking at around 3:15-3:45 hours I think, easy enough to plan a start time if you have an idea of what pace you can ride. Usually it's only the people who are desperate for clear roads who turn up early anyway if there's no start time.

My opinion has always been if you want to race, sign up for a race, but for a KOM it's unlikely you're going to get blocked by loads of riders anyway, especially if it's on a closed section?

slowbike

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

As for the drive there - we did 12 hours to get there in 2014 ... flying up this time.

Takes me about the same to drive to Italy...

Fair enough - but you're definately not going to get a chance of seeing Nessie from there ...

ugo.santalucia

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

I'd be looking at around 3:15-3:45 hours I think

What? I thought it was a 100 mile event... now I read it's 66... I mean really? People driving 12 hours to ride a 3-4 hour event? That's a bit rich... it's also a pound per mile, which makes it the most expensive event I've ever heard of, if you use that metric... :shock:

meanredspider

Slowbike wrote:

As for the drive there - we did 12 hours to get there in 2014 ... flying up this time.

Where are you driving from - Truro?

It's beautiful around Loch Ness but there are much nicer routes up there.

Hinaultscrapcousin

oxoman wrote:

Its a lovely area you need to register the day before and for me personally I will be moving on to fort william after the ride and spending a few days on my mountain bike doing FW and various 7 stanes centres.

Ft Bill isn't a good base to ride the 7Stanes. You'd be much better off going down to Dumfries. Loads of other stuff up that way though.

slowbike

meanredspider wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

As for the drive there - we did 12 hours to get there in 2014 ... flying up this time.

Where are you driving from - Truro?

It's beautiful around Loch Ness but there are much nicer routes up there.

Hah - not quite - Portsmouth area - it was 12 hours door to door last time.
It'll take us about the same time this year - despite the flying - as we have a little monkey to drop off en-route.

We'd love to do some highland riding - but time isn't with us atm - so commiting to this ride (whatever the weather) is the best way we can get some in. Yes - it's expensive - but it's something my wife really wants to do (again) - and TBH, that makes it worth the effort and expense.
We're planning a proper Scottish trip in a year or so's time - once monkey is a bit older and can sit on a tailgator and cope without a daytime nap (rather limits where/what you can do!)

slowbike

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

I'd be looking at around 3:15-3:45 hours I think

What? I thought it was a 100 mile event... now I read it's 66... I mean really? People driving 12 hours to ride a 3-4 hour event? That's a bit rich... it's also a pound per mile, which makes it the most expensive event I've ever heard of, if you use that metric... :shock:

If it was pound per mile I'd stay at home and only ride from there.

A few years ago we flew to Sardinia and rode 200 miles then flew home again ... It isn't about the number of miles you ride, it's also about location, time & company.

Sure, we could get up to Scotland and ride anywhere else, but we haven't done that (yet). Commiting to this event means we will go up and ride - we're not at home thinking of the jobs we have to get done - we don't have to worry about route (just keep the water on the left) or getting lost - we don't have to worry about traffic - we don't have to worry about food - we don't have to worry about mechanicals leaving us stranded - we get to ride with a load of other cyclists - in short, we're pretty much certain of a good ride - whatever the weather.

ugo.santalucia

Slowbike wrote:

Sure, we could get up to Scotland and ride anywhere else, but we haven't done that (yet). Commiting to this event means we will go up and ride - we're not at home thinking of the jobs we have to get done - we don't have to worry about route (just keep the water on the left) or getting lost - we don't have to worry about traffic - we don't have to worry about food - we don't have to worry about mechanicals leaving us stranded - we get to ride with a load of other cyclists - in short, we're pretty much certain of a good ride - whatever the weather.

Whatever works for you... I just struggle to see the appeal. They do something similar in Switzerland (Tour du Leman), bit longer distance, similar terrain, but later in the year and quite likely much more appealing weather. There are several tens of thousands of road cyclists living within a 2 hour drive from there and you can see the appeal... if I was local I'd probably do it, why not...

But even living in the UK, If I had to choose to fly to Aberdeen or to Geneva for a bicycle ride around a lake, it would be a no brainer.

I was all excited about going to the Highlands last summer and I thought it would be an amazing cycling holiday... it wasn't... it rained most of the time and when it didn't rain, it was cold and overcast, I can't even tell you how Ben Nevis or Glencoe look like... if you stop for more than 10 seconds you are attacked by midges... never again

Hinaultscrapcousin

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I was all excited about going to the Highlands last summer and I thought it would be an amazing cycling holiday... it wasn't... it rained most of the time and when it didn't rain, it was cold and overcast, I can't even tell you how Ben Nevis or Glencoe look like... if you stop for more than 10 seconds you are attacked by midges... never again

Sounds like someone needs a big dose of rule 5

ugo.santalucia

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I was all excited about going to the Highlands last summer and I thought it would be an amazing cycling holiday... it wasn't... it rained most of the time and when it didn't rain, it was cold and overcast, I can't even tell you how Ben Nevis or Glencoe look like... if you stop for more than 10 seconds you are attacked by midges... never again

Sounds like someone needs a big dose of rule 5

Absolutely... although, I get rained over on my way to work weekly... I wouldn't want to pay money to get more of the same... I am one of those arrogants twits that think he is entitled to a bit of good weather when he opens the wallet... right or wrong, it's the way I feel... going on holiday to Scotland was a mistake I will not repeat... beautiful as it is, a tacky vacation to Majorca would have been way more enjoyable (and possibly cheaper too)