What frame material?

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Comments

  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    fat daddy wrote:
    will you honestly roll over a section of tarmac and think, Ah yes that 5 seconds was so much more comfortable on my CF bike ?

    I built up my first CF bike after years of only steel bikes. Same wheels. Same groupset. Just the new frame and seatpost.

    Rode over the grid near me and I couldn't believe how much comfier the CF felt. I had to do it again and again to amuse myself.

    A good CF frame is an amazing thing. And it won't rust.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Fenix wrote:
    fat daddy wrote:
    will you honestly roll over a section of tarmac and think, Ah yes that 5 seconds was so much more comfortable on my CF bike ?

    I built up my first CF bike after years of only steel bikes. Same wheels. Same groupset. Just the new frame and seatpost.

    Rode over the grid near me and I couldn't believe how much comfier the CF felt. I had to do it again and again to amuse myself.

    A good CF frame is an amazing thing. And it won't rust.

    Dropping 5psi from your tyres would probably give you the same effect.
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    But I didn't.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    In which case, that CF frame must have been flexing something chronic in order to absorb bumps froma cattle grid.
  • BenderRodriguez
    BenderRodriguez Posts: 907
    Imposter wrote:
    Fenix wrote:
    I built up my first CF bike after years of only steel bikes. Same wheels. Same groupset. Just the new frame and seatpost.

    Rode over the grid near me and I couldn't believe how much comfier the CF felt. I had to do it again and again to amuse myself.A good CF frame is an amazing thing. And it won't rust.
    Dropping 5psi from your tyres would probably give you the same effect.
    Prior getting my first carbon frame I was on a Cannondale, and the ride was so harsh that running 28mm tyres with 80 si in them (which felt really sluggish) was still less comfortable than riding my carbon frame with the same wheels and bits fitted, other than having 23 mm section tyres with 100 psi in them (which were also appreciably faster to ride).

    As my earlier post suggested, one might need to spend serious money to get a 'best of all worlds' carbon frame, so if one has a limited budget some compromise may well be needed. The best compromise, however, might still be a cheap carbon frame from someone like Ribble, PX or wherever.
    "an original thinker… the intellectual heir of Galileo and Einstein… suspicious of orthodoxy - any orthodoxy… He relishes all forms of ontological argument": jane90.
  • ZMC888
    ZMC888 Posts: 292
    BenderRodriguez wrote:
    fat daddy wrote:
    will you honestly roll over a section of tarmac and think, Ah yes that 5 seconds was so much more comfortable on my CF bike ?
    Three years riding my Time has now convinced me that carbon is pretty much the only way to go, with the choice of steel or Ti being down to wanting something 'retro', or as you put it, simply 'different'. From a functional point of view my current carbon frame is the best bit of bike kit I have ever owned. !
    Thanks for this. Makes a strong point.
    Lots of varying opinions....some contradictory. :? :P
  • BenderRodriguez
    BenderRodriguez Posts: 907
    Imposter wrote:
    In which case, that CF frame must have been flexing something chronic in order to absorb bumps froma cattle grid.
    The amount frame flex under use is often under-estimated. What also matters is where and how a frame flexes: with carbon a frame can really be built to flex in one direction but be stiff in another, so one can have a frame that responds well to road bumps, but also resists the torsional loads generated by giving it some out of the saddle.
    "an original thinker… the intellectual heir of Galileo and Einstein… suspicious of orthodoxy - any orthodoxy… He relishes all forms of ontological argument": jane90.
  • on-yer-bike
    on-yer-bike Posts: 2,974
    Pinerallo F8W has external BB. Perfect.
    Pegoretti
    Colnago
    Cervelo
    Campagnolo
  • ZMC888
    ZMC888 Posts: 292
    BenderRodriguez wrote:
    As my earlier post suggested, one might need to spend serious money to get a 'best of all worlds' carbon frame, so if one has a limited budget some compromise may well be needed. The best compromise, however, might still be a cheap carbon frame from someone like Ribble, PX or wherever.
    I think if I save up all winter I've got enough for a Trek or Giant or something Taiwan/USA, maybe 105 or Ultrega level spec.

    What would you buy for 1,500 pounds?
  • ZMC888
    ZMC888 Posts: 292
    on-yer-bike wrote:
    Pinerallo F8W has external BB. Perfect.
    Perfect! :D:D:D

    Ah rats! Lend me 4000 quid mate. :mrgreen:
  • BenderRodriguez
    BenderRodriguez Posts: 907
    ZMC888 wrote:
    BenderRodriguez wrote:
    Three years riding my Time has now convinced me that carbon is pretty much the only way to go, with the choice of steel or Ti being down to wanting something 'retro', or as you put it, simply 'different'. From a functional point of view my current carbon frame is the best bit of bike kit I have ever owned. !
    Thanks for this. Makes a strong point.
    Lots of varying opinions....some contradictory. :? :P
    The main point is that a carbon frame can truly give 'the best of all worlds', but this will probably cost serious money. Also, everything depends on what your priorities are. As carbon can be used to build a frame with so many different qualities the true test can only be riding the one you are thinking of buying.

    I am quite prepared to believe that there are cheap 'open mould' carbon frames out there that give a ride that is just as rewarding as my Time, but also know from experience that others are nowhere near.

    That is the 'carbon conundrum': two carbon frames can have very different ride qualities, even if they look similar. Unlike steel or Ti it is the design and manufacturing methods that define the way the finished frame rides, whilst I would bet that I and a 'master craftsman' could weld or braze a set of steel tubes together an no one would know from riding it who built what.
    "an original thinker… the intellectual heir of Galileo and Einstein… suspicious of orthodoxy - any orthodoxy… He relishes all forms of ontological argument": jane90.
  • BenderRodriguez
    BenderRodriguez Posts: 907
    ZMC888 wrote:
    What would you buy for 1,500 pounds?

    The Dedacciai-made Ribbles have always been spectacular value for money. (I think the R872 might be a current example, but I would have to do more research to find out as companies like Deda and Ribble are trying to stop people from easily identifying who makes what, so justifying the mark-up on the branded frames.) For 1500 notes with that frame you could look at an Ultegra build.

    Hunting around can also find some bargains. Planet X were selling off their very nice, Italian-Made Viner Maximus frames for silly money, but I think these have all gone now.

    Again, you really need to try before buying, and in general you will pay a premium for a brand name without necessarily getting any more for your money. There is better value for money out there that the likes of Trek will give you - unless of course you find an older model on offer with a big discount, which is also a sensible way to buy.
    "an original thinker… the intellectual heir of Galileo and Einstein… suspicious of orthodoxy - any orthodoxy… He relishes all forms of ontological argument": jane90.
  • ZMC888
    ZMC888 Posts: 292
    ZMC888 wrote:
    on-yer-bike wrote:
    Pinerallo F8W has external BB. Perfect.
    Perfect! :D:D:D

    Ah rats! Lend me 4000 quid mate. :mrgreen:

    Actually joking aside, the Pinarello Gan is a cheaper range of affordable bikes all with Italina threded BBs. Better get saving. 8)

    http://www.competitivecyclist.com/pinarello-gan-disc-105-complete-road-bike-2017?skidn=PIN003I-S53BKFLYL-S44CM&ti=UExQIENhdDpSb2FkIEJpa2VzICYgRnJhbWVzOjE6MjM6Y2NDYXQxMDAxNzE=

    http://www.competitivecyclist.com/pinarello-gan-k-disc-ultegra-complete-road-bike-2017?skidn=PIN003E-S97BKFLYL-S425CM&ti=UExQIENhdDpSb2FkIEJpa2VzICYgRnJhbWVzOjE6MjU6Y2NDYXQxMDAxNzE=
  • BenderRodriguez
    BenderRodriguez Posts: 907
    on-yer-bike wrote:
    Pinerallo F8W has external BB. Perfect.
    In my book 'vastly over-priced for what they are' and 'over-marketed' does not equate with perfect. ;)
    "an original thinker… the intellectual heir of Galileo and Einstein… suspicious of orthodoxy - any orthodoxy… He relishes all forms of ontological argument": jane90.
  • ZMC888
    ZMC888 Posts: 292
    BenderRodriguez wrote:
    on-yer-bike wrote:
    Pinerallo F8W has external BB. Perfect.
    In my book 'vastly over-priced for what they are' and 'over-marketed' does not equate with perfect. ;)
    Agreed, but I've gone with a 'what the hell is that?' bike mostly due to price saving time and time again in the past. It's never going to be uber cheap if you are supplying a pro team and have a healthy advertising budget. It's the R&D budget which interests me.
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    I was assuming a Pinerallo F8W to be a Chinese knock-off?

    Or was it just a typo?
  • ZMC888
    ZMC888 Posts: 292
    keef66 wrote:
    I was assuming a Pinerallo F8W to be a Chinese knock-off?

    Or was it just a typo?

    No, looks like the new one.
    http://www.pinarello.com/en/bike-2016/road/dogma-f8w
  • on-yer-bike
    on-yer-bike Posts: 2,974
    ZMC888 wrote:
    BenderRodriguez wrote:
    As my earlier post suggested, one might need to spend serious money to get a 'best of all worlds' carbon frame, so if one has a limited budget some compromise may well be needed. The best compromise, however, might still be a cheap carbon frame from someone like Ribble, PX or wherever.
    I think if I save up all winter I've got enough for a Trek or Giant or something Taiwan/USA, maybe 105 or Ultrega level spec.

    What would you buy for 1,500 pounds?
    Canyon
    Pegoretti
    Colnago
    Cervelo
    Campagnolo
  • ZMC888
    ZMC888 Posts: 292
    Gotta say I really like Ribble. Choosing exactly the components you want is pretty amazing.
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    ZMC888 wrote:
    keef66 wrote:
    I was assuming a Pinerallo F8W to be a Chinese knock-off?

    Or was it just a typo?

    No, looks like the new one.
    http://www.pinarello.com/en/bike-2016/road/dogma-f8w

    That's a Pinarello. I was enquiring about the aforementioned Pinerallo... :wink:
  • ayjaycee
    ayjaycee Posts: 1,277
    Slightly off topic, but as I said in another thread here on BR, I was in Oman a while ago and borrowed a Pinarello Dogma something or other. Although it was set up OK for me, I just couldn't get on with it. Indeed, after 50 or so miles, I came to the conclusion that it was just about the worst bike that I had ever ridden (but that might have said more about me as an old git who's not as flexible as I once was than the bike). I also borrowed a newish Trek Domane which was brilliant. Oman was also brilliant - once you get out of Muscat, there is not a lot of traffic and most road surfaces are snooker table smooth - there is also some serious climbing to be had but, unless you pick your time of year, the heat can be fierce.
    Cannondale Synapse Carbon Ultegra
    Kinesis Racelight 4S
    Specialized Allez Elite (Frame/Forks for sale)
    Specialized Crosstrail Comp Disk (For sale)
  • ZMC888
    ZMC888 Posts: 292
    I think I've narrowed things down to Giant or Trek. Emonda or TCR. CF bike for me.

    Why? Cos there are fairly well equipped shops selling legit bikes. I don't really want a 'no name' budget brand, I'll pay extra for a manufacturer that puts its money back into the sport, OK you pay more for the advertising and paying pros, but you get a bike that is cutting edge and proven to be good.

    If I trash my CF bike through abuse or clumsiness the geo doesn't work for me or the BB creaks and I go through hell - lesson learned, at least I've set a benchmark of what a good bike should be.

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