Winter riding or turbo trainer ?

robbo2011

I don't think they are useless for base miles, but a typical base ride in zone 2 would be at least 2 hours duration so that would be extremely tedious on a turbo.

pblakeney

Bottom line. A turbo is for when you would choose not to go out on the road.
The choice becomes turbo or no ride.

NeXXus

Both.. During the week when I lack company on the road the turbo is my best friend, road rides with people can wait until daylight.

I've just pre-ordered a Tacx Flux too so the road riding bit might be out the window entirely

fat daddy

It's kind of ironic, when I want to be sociable I use the turbo ? Oh how things have changed, now I go to the garrage on my own so I can ride in a group of 30 people and race them .... then after the event do another 10-20 miles whilst chatting

cycleclinic

How on earth do you stay kn a turbo for 2hrs. 1 minute and i am desperate to get off. I would rather gut myself than sit on one. If its wet outside cold or windy take some manup pills and go ride. It is as never as bad as you think and i have ridden in some truely horrendous conditions that have always been nicer than the thought of becoming sweaty on a turbo.

Also keeping your heart rate constant for z2 ride for 2hrs i dont think is effective training. For time trailist there is a benefit but for the rest of use a mix of efforts is far better. Then recovery rides. Keep the efforts changing from week to week but within a set range. Then after a couple of months change the set if efforts so you dont plateau. This is what i am doing now. I dont tt so for me a turbo is not that useful. The biggest improvements i see is when i one do one interval session a week, one tempo ride, one race and then lots of slower rides keeping my heart rate under 120 bpm or lower. The diet of frequent intervals and these z2/3 rides i see people do i think are a way of trying to get the most gain out of limited time but in reality it is not optimal. Most people could ride to work and back for base and use that turbo for an interval session once a week. Many spend most of the winter on the turbo. A balance is needed.of course the benefit of riding to work you will get there happier.

What the previous two posters have described is the bit i dont get. If i want to be sociable i race or do a club ride. Through winter ccs has sudbury laps as a evening training ride. Solutions to every problem.

NeXXus

thecycleclinic wrote:

How on earth do you stay kn a turbo for 2hrs. 1 minute and i am desperate to get off. I would rather gut myself than sit on one. If its wet outside cold or windy take some manup pills and go ride. It is as never as bad as you think and i have ridden in some truely horrendous conditions that have always been nicer than the thought of becoming sweaty on a turbo.

Also keeping your heart rate constant for z2 ride for 2hrs i dont think is effective training. For time trailist there is a benefit but for the rest of use a mix of efforts is far better. Then recovery rides. Keep the efforts changing from week to week but within a set range. Then after a couple of months change the set if efforts so you dont plateau. This is what i am doing now. I dont tt so for me a turbo is not that useful. The biggest improvements i see is when i one do one interval session a week, one tempo ride, one race and then lots of slower rides keeping my heart rate under 120 bpm or lower. The diet of frequent intervals and these z2/3 rides i see people do i think are a way of trying to get the most gain out of limited time but in reality it is not optimal. Most people could ride to work and back for base and use that turbo for an interval session once a week. Many spend most of the winter on the turbo. A balance is needed.of course the benefit of riding to work you will get there happier.

What the previous two posters have described is the bit i dont get. If i want to be sociable i race or do a club ride. Through winter ccs has sudbury laps as a evening training ride. Solutions to every problem.

I once did 3 1/2hrs to gain an achievement unlock in Zwift (100km) I haven't yet attempted the 100miles!

fat daddy

How do you stay on a turbo for 2 hours ? ..... Zwift !!!

30 min warm up chatting with mates, 1hour fast workout ride, with sprints, getting spat out the pack, bring paced back etc .... 30min cool down whilst chatting with mates !

Can be done at 5am in the morning as well .. week days before work, in the dark .... just like s club ride ha ha ha

stueys

For me a turbo is essential. During the winter months with work and general life it's the only way I ride in the week. Weekends I tend to go out unless I'm time pressured, or it's lashing down or there's a risk of ice, otherwise I'm out. But for 60% of my winter riding it's on the turbo, otherwise I just wouldn't get that time in.

Zwift is great for racing, the social element isn't really a major for me on zwift but the races push me very hard. Trainerroad is also brilliant, it's very focussed and you hit exactly the workout you wanted, which you can't do outside. Bang for buck for time invested a turbo will trump going outside every time.

Having said that I do to nuts if I don't hit the road once every couple of weeks...

jgsi

Longish daily commutes and 1 or 2 Zwift full on races are your winter friends... works for me..
that and every time I commute I currently collect £7 in cycling mileage expenses... quite motivational even -2c at 6am.

Quins

My club rides through winter so there is normally a Saturday or Sunday longer ride available providing the weather allows (ice etc). I tried really hard to get to a club training night during the winter, it started at 7.30 which was a really tight squeeze to get back from London to South of Maidstone, get some food in on the way, get home load bike, turbo, training kit and change of kit for circuits. Great session but missed too many due to cr@p trains, work commitments, illness.. Did my own turbo sessions ( 2 usually max 3) based on the knowledge gained, never much fun and still had to fit it in when I got back from work on top of loads of other chores. Through the summer I started commuting 2-3 days a week to a station 12 miles away and getting the train to town from there. I see that as 6 turbo sessions which beats my previous 2-3 during the week. I dont get any monetary gain from the commute, just fitness. It has already paid off in that I've missed the long rides for a few weeks but I managed 77 miles with my group on Saturday with a better than expected average speed.

Horses for courses, you fit in what you can without it being stressful and unsustainable, so that's outdoors for me at the moment. I'd love a man Cave with a zwift set up and the time to do it, a mate at work loves it, always on it.

robbo2011

thecycleclinic wrote:

The biggest improvements i see is when i one do one interval session a week, one tempo ride, one race and then lots of slower rides keeping my heart rate under 120 bpm or lower.

And I would suspect that when you are doing this regime, your ratio of high intensity to low intensity is around 20:80. You might find this research article interesting.

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... e_Training

markhewitt1978

Never mind 2 hours there's a guy on now who has been going for 42 hours and he's not done yet.

markhewitt1978

Derek Boorcock has now done 1,000 miles in one Zwift session and it's taken him 52 hours.

markhewitt1978

Derek Boorcock has now done 1,000 miles in one Zwift session and it's taken him 52 hours.

barry_badrinath

Just got my Kickr a couple of weeks ago, and loving it. I've been alternating between a Trainerroad plan, and a couple of solo sessions on Zwift.

I'd be interested to try the racing out on it, but also kinda intimidated as never raced at all before. Any tips on getting started with it?

fat daddy

enter a race ...... and follow other people

ie, don't race on your fist few races, just go ride and see where you fall, follow the pack, see how your fitness falls in with the others and what CAT to lable yourself as.

Ultimately, you are just an avatar ... there is no chance you are going to crash, wipe out or embarrass yourself, no one will recognise you the next time you log on and its unlikely anyone will remember your name or where you finished.

so just set your cave up as you would for a ride, have water, have a towel have your fan on .. and enter .. most races are a full on sprint off the line before it settles down, so be prepared to go quick off the line and then find a group to help you along.

Or start as I did by joining the training rides ie dZi ... they ride about 2.5-3wkg with sprint intervals that if you don't join in on, you need to up your speed to stay with a regrouping pack and a mini-race on the last lap

barry_badrinath

Cheers, will try give it a shot this week. Much appreciated!

dannbodge

I do both, well all three.

I only really get out on the road at weekends, so Tuesdays and Thursdays I do a 30min HIIT session on the turbo, Wednesdays and Friday I do hour/two on rollers.

I try to always do at least one session on each thing each week but that depends on who's up for playing xbox in the evening instead.

philbar72

I don’t use a turbo, I find it utterly boring. A number of clubmates use zwift, but ultimately I don’t find it in any way interesting. In winter my training goes around the roads near me that are largely clear of debris and rubbish, and some localised climbs that are on roads that aren’t too covered over when its cold ( so I avoid Leith hill for example). I also do a training loop where you get around an hours worth of interval work, in various shapes and forms, as its dependent on traffic lights and other peoples climbing ability! That’s enough for me nowadays.

tcm733

I was in the Cycle surgery near my work in Kings Cross on Friday and they were setting up some trainers and Tv's with Zwift. They had 3 set up and the guy said they were waiting on another 2, they'll be there for the rest of winter apparently you can just come in and have a go, I'm going to take my kit in to work this week and drop in on my lunch. Quite tempted by a Snap.

ai_1

I'm in the process of moving house. I'm moving out of an apartment that was great for outdoor rides with easy access to great roads and terrain country roads. I'm moving into a house in a heavily traffic congested urban area

I've a KK Road Machine for a few years but it was rarely used because of inconvenience, discomfort and boredom. However, with this move I don't see myself getting out for midweek evening rides in winter. All my training time would be absorbed by junctions and navigating traffic jams.

So, for the foreseeable future my winter training is likely to be Turbo sessions during the week and a long weekend club ride. There's 2 big positives though.
First, I now have enough space to leave the turbo set up permanently. That's a huge plus for me!
Second, I bought a TT bike last winter and I find it much better than a road bike on the trainer. I prefer the road bike for fun and comfort outside but I find an aero position on the extensions much more comfortable than a road bike when the bike is rigidly attached to a trainer. So, I plan to do most or all of my indoor sessions on the TT bike. I'll still be doing my long rides on the road bike.

My previous solo sessions were either random time on the bike or a sequence programmed on my bike computer. I found it tedious. I started using Zwift about 4 weeks ago and it's making a bigger difference than I expected. Largely because I'm doing more specific power based interval sessions but also I have something to look at (TV/music doesn't work for me unless I'm just spinning easily). So, I'll get myself set up properly with a training studio (i.e. garage) in the new place and see how I get on.

Now to my question:

fat daddy wrote:

oh and a fan .... buy a fan .... you NEED a fan, or two

real cycling provides wind to cool you .... its amazing how much you can heat up just pulling 140w in a garage in autumn with no fan ... hit 10minute 300w pace and without that fan you wil die in 9 minutes

I know this has probably been covered regularly before, but I'm looking for suggestions and comparisons of different fan options. I tried a search but with limited luck with regards specific suggestions. I haven't been using a fan, but I definitely need one. I've been looking at cheap 18" floor fans and wondering if they're sufficient or if I should be looking at more powerful 20"-24" drum fans. I also wanted something with a remote control and ideally a wide range of speed settings but both are proving hard to find. Add to that the fact that I don't want to spend a fortune and the search is not going great.

I'm thinking maybe 2 cheap 18" floor fans would work well. I could use one on a low speed setting or at a distance for lower intensity periods and have the other on high setting and plugged into a remote control socket so I can switch it on from the bike when the intensity climbs. What do you think? Any suggestions?

fat daddy

I only have 1 fan ..... its a floor standing either 18 or 16 inch and sits about a foot away from me so all I need to do is stretch to it to turn it up or down .... its good for about an hour but I could do with more air flow, this time of year its acceptable, I train at 5am so even in the summer its cool, so bare minimum I would go is 16" that's close to you.

once I tidy the garage up, I'll be investing in another fan

Hinaultscrapcousin

I will ride whatever the weather (I've gone up climbs covered in ice as I went to far and didn't want to descend the same side I was climbing) but there are times when I have no choice but to use a turbo (single parent for half the week).

Last year I just used a heart-rate monitor but this year I've gone all "pro" and bought a speed AND a cadence sensor!! I've also signed up to the Sufferfest app. My turbo is a bog-standard, 5 level magnetic resistance thing. The sensors let me use calculated power. I find thsi set up works fine and don't really see the need to invest in the more expensive kit (certainly not a power meter).

I would definitely say using calculated power is better than heart rate. If I look at my sufferfest data my power tracks the expected profile pretty perfectly (I have to leave the resistance level alone but generally have it a little lower for the warm-up so there is a false drop in power when I start). My heartrate does track it but no where near as well and I found I was much more likely to slack off to let me heartrate drop. The calculated power seems precise but not accurate (I mean, I might have an FTP of 4.6 w/kg but I doubt it) which is really all you need. Main thing is to monitor tyre pressure as the calculation is based on speed so this can have a large effect.

It's also much easier to smash yourself on a turbo. You don't have to negotiate traffic, roads, other riders etc. and it's easier to structure your rides (or have them structured for you). You can do a solid hour on a turbo and really feel it, on the road I find I need at least 3 hours.


To sum up, as much outside as possible but a turbo is brilliant for when outside riding isn't an option.



I don't have a fan. I open a window in Glasgow and it can feel like a windy Ventoux stage!

bobmcstuff

I try to get in at least one night ride during the week after work and at least one outside ride at the weekend (club ride usually), weather depending. I think it's important for your sanity. My midweek night ride is usually flat and steady because at this time of year descending dark, wet, leaf covered roads is a bit sketchy. Also when it's cold I prefer to keep up a steady effort for temperature control purposes rather than repeatedly working up a sweat and getting cold.

Then I've just started a TrainerRoad base plan, previously I have done the Time Crunched Training Plan and Sufferfests over the winter. If I'm going to go on the turbo it needs to be something structured. I actually don't mind it, but I think if I didn't get any outside rides in I would not like it so much.

I also do a bit of running over the winter (heresy!) just to keep the weight off and to get a bit of daylight during the week (can fit in a 30 minute lunch run quite easily).

markhewitt1978

Ai_1 wrote:

I know this has probably been covered regularly before, but I'm looking for suggestions and comparisons of different fan options. I tried a search but with limited luck with regards specific suggestions. I haven't been using a fan, but I definitely need one. I've been looking at cheap 18" floor fans and wondering if they're sufficient or if I should be looking at more powerful 20"-24" drum fans. I also wanted something with a remote control and ideally a wide range of speed settings but both are proving hard to find. Add to that the fact that I don't want to spend a fortune and the search is not going great.

I'm thinking maybe 2 cheap 18" floor fans would work well. I could use one on a low speed setting or at a distance for lower intensity periods and have the other on high setting and plugged into a remote control socket so I can switch it on from the bike when the intensity climbs. What do you think? Any suggestions?

Remote control is very important, I usually start off riding without any fans and gradually turn them on, would be too cold to start otherwise. But you don't always need the fan itself to be remote controlled. I've got one tower fan which has three settings, but then another desk fan which is turned on/off by a remote control plug.

It's also better to have two slightly smaller fans that one big one. In fact having two fans each offset to the side would be best.

MiddleRinger

Ai_1 wrote:

I know this has probably been covered regularly before, but I'm looking for suggestions and comparisons of different fan options. I tried a search but with limited luck with regards specific suggestions.

I use a single 18 inch floor fan. It's not a cheapo one, but not overly expensive.

I actually went into a department whitegoods/electrical store and tested a whole bunch out for how powerful and noisy they were then chose a quiet one as that was an issue for where I train. You want one that is quite sturdy too. A remote control fan would be pretty ace come to think of it! Being able to control the speed depending on how hot you're getting. I never even thought about that!

ai_1

I've ordered 2 relatively inexpensive metal 18" floor fans.
I'll try a few different configurations and see what works best. I'm pretty sure a single fan wouldn't be enough and ordered online so wnet for two of them to keep the shipping per unit low. In the unlikely case that I decide one is enough I'll try and convince my training buddy to buy the other one off me!
I'm thinking I'll leave one on constantly at a distance and put the other on a remote socket in a position where it'll give me plenty airflow, but like I said, I'll experiment.

If I don't find that satisfactory and if I'm actually doing enough indoor training to make it worthwhile, I might make up my own fan or at least my own controller. I used to design, build and fly electric model airplanes so I know my way around speed controllers, motors and propellors/fans. I'm sure I could make up some sort of handlebar mounted fan control.
One thing I haven't seen but seems like an obvious product is a fan that can be configured so that can be controlled by your work rate. there's a few ways it could be done. The ideal but not simplest, might be if Zwift, Trainerroad, etc, output a signal based on your power that can be used as an input to a fan controller. You could then have fan speed that directly relates to your training intensity. You'd want to make the relationship between power and fan speed adjustable to cater for rider ability, preferences and ambient conditions but it seems very do-able to me. If computer based, this control could be quite advanced. So short lived pace changes say for 10 second sprint reps wouldn't have the fan revving up and down continuously. You could use a time averaged power value for example. You could also have it configured so that after a sustained high power period, the fan speed stays high for a while as you start to recover and then gradually tapers off. Lots of possibilities, and I'm sure someone will jump on this opportunity, but when, and how expensive?
I think the main only problem is you would need lots of cooperation from the trainer app guys.

markhewitt1978

https://www.reddit.com/r/Zwift/comments ... for_zwift/ You're not the first to think of that. (On that thread jmXDP is the head developer at Zwift)