lights ... numpties ... dark clothing

awavey

keef66 wrote:

Driving home last night my lights picked out a child on the footpath wearing a puffa type jacket but with the proviz type reflective finish. Zowie did she stand out! Great idea for kids once the nights draw in.

why ? are you planning on driving along footpaths or something and need to know what obstacles are in front of you ?

tgotb

imatfaal wrote:

Proviz rucksack/pannier cover. They are also reversible with day-glo yellow on the one side for daylight riding and proviz stuff on the other side for night time

If your ride starts in daylight and finishes in the dark, do you stop part way and reverse the cover? If so, how do you determine the optimum time to do so?

This Proviz stuff baffles me. Not only do you blend in perfectly with the background during the day, especially in British weather, but in the dark you're practically invisible to anyone driving around without their lights on. If someone's sufficiently vacant that they can't even remember to turn their lights on, I don't particularly want to rely on them being vigilant enough to spot someone dressed in dark grey...

fat daddy

I think you are baffled because you don't get the simple premise that you dont have to buy/wear it if it doesn't meet your needs ... if your ride starts dark and gets light, well then it's not the jacket for you

I wear one, but then I can guarantee the sun won't come up at 7am in the winter or at 6pm in the evening.

It's a bit like a 3mile commuter not understanding the point of bibshorts and bum cream ... but what's the point, I only ride 3miles ... well yes then these clothes are not for you

Because people don't understand clothing it doesn't mean it's useless or sh1te ... it just means you don't ride in those circumstances

mosheehan

My Sugoi Zap is a fetching shade of red in the light and blinding anti-paparazzi in the dark.

Therefore not being the boring grey in the day time and having the problem Man Utd had one away game with that stoopid grey kit.

mudcovered

thistle (MBNW) wrote:

Big problem with daytime running lights - often brighter than an older car's headlights but the tail lights don't come on so people are driving around oblivious to the fact that nobody can see them from behind.

This is a serious issue that should actually be legislated for. I've flashed so many cars when driving in town at night for exactly this reason its unreal. Given that all the cars in question probably have lights that can be set to turn on automatically I don't know why the manufacturers aren't forced to make that the default option when daylight running lights are turned on.

I know I normally leave auto-lights on in my car (although I'm more that willing to turn them on myself if I think the car is wrong. )

Mike

wolfsbane2k

mosheehan wrote:

My Sugoi Zap is a fetching shade of red in the light and blinding anti-paparazzi in the dark.

Therefore not being the boring grey in the day time and having the problem Man Utd had one away game with that stoopid grey kit.

I like the sugoi zap, colleague has it and ive picked him out from a long distance away on rural roads with my nanoshot+, just amazing.

Proviz had a kick starter to introduce new colours this year, but they are (were, knowing kick-started delays) due in November, so I decided not to join in the "discounts" as they should them.

tgotb

fat daddy wrote:

I think you are baffled because you don't get the simple premise that you dont have to buy/wear it if it doesn't meet your needs ... if your ride starts dark and gets light, well then it's not the jacket for you

Defensive, much...

fat daddy wrote:

I wear one, but then I can guarantee the sun won't come up at 7am in the winter or at 6pm in the evening.

Do you wear something different on cold days in the Spring/Autumn, or do you just shift your commuting times to avoid the daylight?

fat daddy

TGOTB wrote:

[Defensive, much...

I am a commuter ... we blow up at the slightest of provocations .... sometimes before the provocation, if you wanted a reasonable debate, you need to talk to hindu-cow like "pro"mmuters

TGOTB wrote:

Do you wear something different on cold days in the Spring/Autumn, or do you just shift your commuting times to avoid the daylight?

as cool as it would be to be a vampire, In the summer months I wear an dayglo Gore jacket, with reflective stripes ... but the reflective stripes are quite ineffective I have discovered as they are so small unless a car is heading directly at you and you have your ams in the right position they barely catch the light .... and is my biggest bug bare of bike clothing commuting in the dark, most of the riders I see are barely visible, yet wearing so called hi-viz clothing .... turns out to keep it fashionable it doesn't work .... if you want it to work you need to look like a dick !

so as soon as it gets permanently dark I switch to the full on reflective stuff

there is a time about 3 weeks ago where its black on the way to work ... and light on the way back ..... fortunately its less than 10deg and down hill in the morning, and more than 15 and uphill on the way home. So I wear a reflective jacket to work and just a t-shirt on the way home

fenix

FD - what kind of hi viz kit are people wearing that you say are barely visible ?

guy.spartacus

mudcovered wrote:

thistle (MBNW) wrote:

Big problem with daytime running lights - often brighter than an older car's headlights but the tail lights don't come on so people are driving around oblivious to the fact that nobody can see them from behind.

This is a serious issue that should actually be legislated for. I've flashed so many cars when driving in town at night for exactly this reason its unreal. Given that all the cars in question probably have lights that can be set to turn on automatically I don't know why the manufacturers aren't forced to make that the default option when daylight running lights are turned on.

I know I normally leave auto-lights on in my car (although I'm more that willing to turn them on myself if I think the car is wrong. )

Mike

^this^

Had my car serviced recently and the dealership turned off the auto lights - drove home oblivious to the fact I was invisible from the back.

Annoying.

fenix

Are Citroens prone to this - I've only ever noticed a couple of them with lights at the front and nothing behind.

tangled_metal

There's a hi-viz jacket with a chevron arrow in reflective material directing following traffic to move over. The trouble is it points to the left! You'd think they'd make a UK version.

I used to follow a lass wearing one each morning until it was safe to pass. I always thought those arrows were a good idea since they were highly.visible in even my 300 lumen lights. Then I suddenly realised they were pointing the wrong way. Took a month of seeing them to realise that too.

fat daddy

Fenix wrote:

FD - what kind of hi viz kit are people wearing that you say are barely visible ?

dayglo yellow and orange tops with the smallest of printed on reflective strips, maybe a couple on the shoulder and one on the lower back .... I don't know the make, its 7am in the morning pitch black and they arnt standing out at all in the traffic.

take the Altura night vision jacket

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/altura-night-vi ... of-jacket/

in principle its great, but look at the back of it, how much do you think the tiny reflective stips on the back actually get illuminated by approaching traffic, there is a slight glimmer, but nothing that actually alerts you to the fact there is a slow moving squishy blob infront of you, especially when the speed limit signs, rear numberplates, cones, street signs are all being lit up far brighter than the cyclist.

in my opinon, the opinion of a 7am crappy weather commuter, the minimum reflectives people should be wearing is the amount you get on workmans hi-viz jackets, the big 2" stips across the back and legs .... now they stand out and light up .. not the 1cm wide strips that are 5cm long and get folded up in creases.

But then its only my opinion and freedom of choice and all that .... if people feel they are visible enough wearing what they are wearing then so be it

kingstongraham

Decent lights make more difference in the dark than what you wear obviously.

asprilla

KingstonGraham wrote:

Decent lights make more difference in the dark than what you wear obviously.

Absolutely.

I can also recommend 3M spoke reflectors for side on visibility at junctions, and for that cool 'Tron Bike' look.

tgotb

Fenix wrote:

Are Citroens prone to this - I've only ever noticed a couple of them with lights at the front and nothing behind.

Sort-of. If I remember correctly, Citroen dashboards light up as soon as you turn on the ignition, regardless of whether the lights are on, so you don't have the potential cue of a dark dashboard to remind you to turn on the lights.

@Fat Daddy - Good response 8)

fenix

Yes I see the point - the workmans wide bands are excellent. I'd definitely prefer those to the more stylish efforts.

It might be different from a car's point of view though - what gets reflected back to them might be different from what a cyclist sees reflecting back from our lights.

I know when I run with a headtorch at night - everything lights up brilliantly because my eyeline is so close to the path of the torchlight.

bobbygloss

Need to consider your position on the bike though too. Reflectives that work for a standing workman might not be so good in a hunched cycling position. From the back, it's your lower legs, bum and the base of your rucksack that will be pointing towards the car's lights.

thistle_

guy.spartacus wrote:

Had my car serviced recently and the dealership turned off the auto lights - drove home oblivious to the fact I was invisible from the back.

Annoying.

Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't know that dealers were able to turn them off. I guess it's a "software update" that they do to all cars that come in.
Really, they should be updating the software to make sure that they both come on at the same time.

wolfsbane2k

Not sure I like the way this thread is going - "promoting all that hi-vis & reflective" stuff (should have known, given the title).

It's all the victim blaming game - make cyclists stand out more so that drivers don't have to look so hard, yet the deer/horses/pigs etc that are in the road in my area ( new forest/Hampshire ) have right of way, yet still get hit constantly - can we get them hi-vis?

It's about getting the drivers to drive to the conditions, no?

fenix

My theory is that people are stupid. So that's all of us, cyclists and motorists and everyone.

Some drivers are blind as bats or just not paying attention. If I dress like a ninja then they have less chance of seeing me. Very few are trying to hit you.

In an ideal world you'd have all idiots off the road - but that's never going to happen. So I'm going to wear bright colours and have reflectives after dark and play the odds.

fat daddy

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

It's about getting the drivers to drive to the conditions, no?

no, its about making road users visible to other road users.

Its quite easy to see a car, they are big, they have 2-3 great big red lights on the back, indicators on the back fronts and sides, two humoungous white lights at the front, 2 reflective number plate panels the size of qwerty keyboards and they take up an entire lane.

a cyclist with a single flickering light can get easily lost amongst the traffic in the dark ... How would you feel if you failed to see a cyclist on a rainy day due to the glare of lights and said cyclist only having a single blinking red light on his bike and killed them ?

ITs nothing to do with apportioning blame its about road safety ........ do you think cones and hi-vis workmans jackets are wrong and we should just educate drivers ?

kingstongraham

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

Not sure I like the way this thread is going - "promoting all that hi-vis & reflective" stuff (should have known, given the title).

It's all the victim blaming game - make cyclists stand out more so that drivers don't have to look so hard, yet the deer/horses/pigs etc that are in the road in my area ( new forest/Hampshire ) have right of way, yet still get hit constantly - can we get them hi-vis?

It's about getting the drivers to drive to the conditions, no?

The evidence you give from the deer/horses/pigs etc is that currently that is not the case. Let me know when you have established that all drivers drive appropriately for the conditions, and I'll stop trying to help them see me.

tgotb

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

Not sure I like the way this thread is going - "promoting all that hi-vis & reflective" stuff (should have known, given the title).

It's all the victim blaming game - make cyclists stand out more so that drivers don't have to look so hard, yet the deer/horses/pigs etc that are in the road in my area ( new forest/Hampshire ) have right of way, yet still get hit constantly - can we get them hi-vis?

It's about getting the drivers to drive to the conditions, no?

If you're setting policy (and therefore in a position to influence the way drivers behave), yes.

If you're an ordinary person, getting up in the morning and wondering what cycling kit to put on, why wouldn't you choose something that's likely to be visible? It might help someone spot you, or it might make no difference, but it's not going to do any harm. It's about making decisions appropriate to the World we live in, rather than the World we'd like to live in.

wolfsbane2k

Balance struck :-)

I wear what I can from a small selection of cycling clothing that is primarily to suit the temperature and precipitation, not hi vis, as the few hi vis items I have make me sweat more, and I can't find stuff that fits for a price i can afford. That stuff iphas reflectives, contrast, etc, but not hi vis.
And hi vis has been proven to be a contributing factor towards accidents: a lollipop man in the middle of the road was run over, experts say be because his orange jacket blended into the sun that was behind him.

Anecdotally, I've found that the most dangerous part of my commuting route it appears to make no difference to the drivers behind me or to the side of me about their decisions to drive at me, side swipe me, cut me up etc if I'm wearing hi vis or not. I've been hit twice from behind by wing mirrors when wearing hi vis, and had numerous idiots pull out on me while doing so.
I've had 1 incident while not wearing high vis where someone has cut across me, which was my worse accident to date.

So anecdotally, personally, it is worse than lisas anti tiger rock.

However, I still have 3m spokeys and at least two lights either way. I just don't like it being spouted at us all the time because lazy ar$ed drivers can't be bothered to look for anything other than reflective things.

Yea, as I cycle more, I'm getting worse. Not yet cycling mafia level, but the current crap spouted by police forces for cyclists to take responsibility and wear hi vis has really pissed me off, as it isn't far beore if your not wearing high vis, it's all your own fault,. Which is what I get regularly from drivers who are going far to fast for the roads and are looking at mobiles etc. (/stereotype)
It's much like the anti helmet brigade vs the helmet brigade, or the 'you were raped because you were wearing a short skirt and therefore asking for it' brigade

[/Rant]
Normal 'what tools and lights shall l I buy next' service will resume shortly .

BobMcbob

I would always favour lights and reflective stickers on the moving parts of the bike, over questionable hi-viz clothing. I run with 2 on the back flashing, and one on the front at all times, works for me.