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London to ban unsafe lorries

secretsamsecretsam Posts: 4,864
edited October 2016 in Commuting chat
From today's Grauniad website:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/30/lorries-face-london-ban-plans-improve-safety-cyclists

Love the comment from the Road Haulage guy at the end, what a tool.

It's just a hill. Get over it.

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  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,964
    SecretSam wrote:
    From today's Grauniad website:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/30/lorries-face-london-ban-plans-improve-safety-cyclists

    Love the comment from the Road Haulage guy at the end, what a tool.

    But what good is that to the dead peoples family in the next 4-8 years while it's being enforced?
    Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
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  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,678
    edited October 2016
    deleted
  • mamil314mamil314 Posts: 1,103
    Even as a commuting cyclist, i cannot be blind to the fact that the ban of construction haulers will be, no doubt, bad for economy and make London even less competitive. Even when builders are forced to invest into 'safer' trucks, will much change without turning to the problem that exists between the seat and steering wheel and harsh deadlines they have to meet?
    Also, let's not pretend there's shortage of cyclists with ridiculously small amount of awareness or, indeed, common sense. Most of commuters here will have witnessed road incidents caused by both sides and their lack of consideration for rules and their fellow road users.
    Still, it is a good thing they recognize the problem and take action to solve it.
  • kleinstrokerkleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    There are trucks out there with better design, but the haulage companies are happy to use old lorries and not worry about the damage they can inflict.

    A better IMO solution would be fitting of 20mph limiters on these tipper type trucks within london boundaries
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,313 Lives Here
    Won't be anyone who can afford to live within biking distance of th centre in 8yrs time.
  • bigmatbigmat Posts: 5,126
    Won't be anyone who can afford to live within biking distance of th centre in 8yrs time.

    Your generation maybe Rick, plenty of people my age already on the ladder and no immediate plans to move. The current situation is ridiculous though, something needs to change.

    Back on topic, that RHA guy is doing his job I suppose but even he seems to be struggling to come up with a valid reason why safe trucks isn't a good idea. Agree they need to do something about the pay per load culture putting pressure on drivers, but this is a start at least.
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,748
    A better IMO solution would be fitting of 20mph limiters on these tipper type trucks within london boundaries
    As the biggest single issue is left turning lorries then a speed limiter will make no odds surely?

    There is a combination of fixes needed
    1/ Improved vehicle secondary safety to reduce the 'result' of any collision (e.g. side underhang bars, or 'cattle guards' at the front)
    2/ Improved vehicle primary safety (sensors/cameras and mirrors) to detect cyclists in the most dangerous location (alongside the vehicle nearside),
    3/ Improved road layouts to try and reduce the potential for a cyclist to be alongside a left turning vehicle.
    4/ Improved law enforcement to allow cyclists to use 'cycle boxes' as intended to move them ahead of the vehicles and into siteline, maybe a between lane cycle lane exit at left turns so cyclists don't try and go up the left, very dangerous if they then find out the box is full (one fatality has definitely been caused by that, another by a truck entering the cycle box preventing a cyclist getting in front of it).
    5/ Improved education of cyclists to never go to the left of a large vehicle at left turn junctions (even if it's not indicating) unless you are 100% (not just 99%) that you can get past and clear in front.

    However at the end of the day it's our life, being in the right and dead is of no use to anyone and better awareness of our surroundings will always be a big factor in preventing incidents.
  • kleinstrokerkleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    At 20mph no tipper is going to fly past you and turn left, that would help. It doesn't help with blind spot I agree.
  • At 20mph a truck will fly past many cyclists I know. Seriously, not every commuter on a bike is a speed merchant. I know several who ride at 10mph or even less on the flat. In ordinary clothes too. At twice the speed of the cyclist, especially from a dead (excuse the term) start.

    Sorry but cycling is for all not those able to maintain higher speeds. Now if you limit trucks to walking pace, perhaps with a guy walking in front waving a red flag then speed limiting might help somewhat.
  • inbikeinbike Posts: 264
    At 20mph a truck will fly past many cyclists I know. Seriously, not every commuter on a bike is a speed merchant. I know several who ride at 10mph or even less on the flat. In ordinary clothes too. At twice the speed of the cyclist, especially from a dead (excuse the term) start.

    With a 20mph vehicle and a 10mph cyclist, the driver has twice as long to notice there's a problem and hit the brakes compared to a 30mph vehicle and a 10mph cyclist.

    There's also a lot less energy involved in any collision (or attempts to avoid a collision) which means that braking is much more effective.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,313 Lives Here
    Judging by the comments on the embankment bike path, the roads london are virtually empty of bikes outside of commuter hours.

    I wonder what the stats are on when in the day the fatalities are happening, but a (rather drastic, granted) solution might be to prevent articulated lorries & tipper tricks driving around zone 1 & 2 during those hours.


    My biggest issue is when articulated lorries pass me with a low speed differential to me, and end up sticking me in the driver's blind spot at 20mph or whatever it is. I mean, what am I expected to do? I'm sensible, so I slow down till I'm fully behind it, but ffs.
  • cjcpcjcp Posts: 13,345
    In terms of what the roads are like at other times, I really don't enjoy commuting between the two rush hours. The number of HGVs, flatbed lorries, vans and what not seems to be higher along Embankment and the NKR.
    FCN 2-4.

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    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,678
    cjcp wrote:
    In terms of what the roads are like at other times, I really don't enjoy commuting between the two rush hours. The number of HGVs, flatbed lorries, vans and what not seems to be higher along Embankment and the NKR.

    This is what I always thought would be the easiest measure to try and assess. Ban all HGV vehicles from the roadsat peak times. It would help bring down casualties of cyclists and with them gone would also ease regular road traffic congestion at the same time. This is not hard to implement. There are 1000's of cameras in operation all over the roads. Get caught driving in the town at rush hour and receive a hefty ban. It deserves at least a look instead of people just scratchingtheir heads and sighing every time they hear of another avoidable road death.
  • cjcpcjcp Posts: 13,345
    cjcp wrote:
    In terms of what the roads are like at other times, I really don't enjoy commuting between the two rush hours. The number of HGVs, flatbed lorries, vans and what not seems to be higher along Embankment and the NKR.

    This is what I always thought would be the easiest measure to try and assess. Ban all HGV vehicles from the roadsat peak times. It would help bring down casualties of cyclists and with them gone would also ease regular road traffic congestion at the same time. This is not hard to implement. There are 1000's of cameras in operation all over the roads. Get caught driving in the town at rush hour and receive a hefty ban. It deserves at least a look instead of people just scratchingtheir heads and sighing every time they hear of another avoidable road death.

    Having ridden home around 2pm today, I'm not sure putting HGVs on the road between rush hours would work: my God, the traffic was banjaxed.

    Had to resort to the shared bike path/pavement on Chelsea Embankment, and the NKR was backed up from Putney Bridge to Parsons Green, partly due to those roadworks, and partly due to volume of traffic.

    Depressing stuff.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • ben-----ben----- Posts: 573
    > London to ban unsafe lorries

    Why just in London?
  • asprillaasprilla Posts: 8,440
    ben----- wrote:
    > London to ban unsafe lorries

    Why just in London?

    Because they have a mayor with the power and possible the will to do it.
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