Scott CR1 vs Tarmac vs Others

The_Wicker_Man

After persistent back problems with my Scott CR1, I'm looking to sell it for something else. I've had 2 bike fits and not found a decent solution. On some rides, everything feels good and then others back is in total agony.

I am 6ft and my current bike is a 2014 Scott CR1 Pro 56cm with Sram Force 22 (which I'll be keeping). I'm looking at a couple of bikes on eBay.

1) Specialized Tarmac SL2 2011 58cm
2) Cannondale Synapse 2015 58cm
3) Scott Foil Team 2014 56cm

Anyone got any ideas on the above or suggest something else? No trek though.

flasher

The_Wicker_Man wrote:

On some rides, everything feels good and then others back is in total agony.

Tbh. i'd persevere, I don't think changing the frame will particularly help, try yoga!

mfin

As above, it won't help. If the fit is definitely correct you need to be looking for other solutions.

That said, I think the 56 scott could be too big, I'm 6ft for example and the 56 scott's 560mm ETT with 176HT and 73.5 Seat Tube Angle wouldn't work for me.

Out of interest, how many spacers do you have above the top cap, what length stem and are you running a layback post? I don't ask thinking a fit can be done over the net, not at all, just interested to see if any alarm bells ring.

This is all to do with fit really, because that CR1 is not an uncomfortable frame. Unless as said above it is a physical problem you are having.

Also, when you say back in agony, lower back I guess yeah?

The_Wicker_Man

Not the best of photo's but here is my CR1 of how it currently looks, don't have a before photo.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bxkpmlu8dfjKOWFQQ3ZXNUh2b3c

Before bike fit it had 46cm bars, a 120mm stem and the seatpost was lower.
After bike fit it has 42mm bars, a 90mm stem flipped and seatpost raised by 2mm.

Have no pain with my other bikes (Kinesis 4S, Fondreist TF1.2 and Scott Speedster CX).

The_Wicker_Man

mfin wrote:

Also, when you say back in agony, lower back I guess yeah?

Yes but sometimes mid to lower back. Being seeing a chiropractor past few weeks who is also a cyclist (racer). He suggested a bike fit (which I've already had (on all my bikes), or looking at a different frame.

mfin

Ah ok, if you have no pain on your other bikes then you need to measure the fit on one of those first and map it across to the scott. There is no need to get a fit done on each bike, once you know your fit you just replicate it. It makes me wonder if all your bikes are setup differently, when they shouldn't be really.

It all is easier if you have the same saddle on each by the way (makes it easier to consistently measure saddle height, and saddle tip to bars once you have got the fore-aft mapped by using the plumb line dropped from saddle tip and measuring the distance behind the BB.

Have you approached it this way? Knowing what you're doing all you will need is a Tape Measure and a plumb line and maybe a spare set of hands.

(By the way, the 90mm stem and so on did not sent alarm bells ringing on that size frame, the 120mm could have for someone who's not really flexible).

sloppyschleckonds

The_Wicker_Man wrote:

Not the best of photo's but here is my CR1 of how it currently looks, don't have a before photo.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bxkpmlu8dfjKOWFQQ3ZXNUh2b3c

Before bike fit it had 46cm bars, a 120mm stem and the seatpost was lower.
After bike fit it has 42mm bars, a 90mm stem flipped and seatpost raised by 2mm.

Have no pain with my other bikes (Kinesis 4S, Fondreist TF1.2 and Scott Speedster CX).

Saddle to bar drop looks ridiculous, you could go up a frame size or 2

The_Wicker_Man

:roll:

paul2718

On the face of it the frame is too small, but you're only 6'. Does not compute.

A Foil is more aggressive, so you will have greater problems getting a fit. Don't know about the others.

Paul

Paul 8v

Looking at how much pin is sticking out I'd echo the frame size comments.

Try a Domane, mine is super comfortable but still quick and the "Isospeed decoupler" (Flexy seat tube) really helps with my dodgy back. Especially since I live in an area with a road surface the same texture as the surface of the moon.

The_Wicker_Man

Looking at an older Domane for next year or a Roubaix.

turbo1191

I also have a CR1 pro.. it is a super stiff frame and a bit of a bone rattler. Sizing on them is a bit strange. Im 6ft 2 and ride a XL (which i believe is a 58 in scott speak).. I have long legs and the drop to the bars is quite big. In hindsight i should have got an XXL.. Funnily enough i was looking at a domane as someone has mentioned.

mfin

The_Wicker_Man wrote:

Looking at an older Domane for next year or a Roubaix.

So, out of interest, what is saddle height in your photo? From centre of BB to top of saddle.

Milton81

specialized makes advertising and scott ski poles. I say Cannondale!

The_Wicker_Man

mfin wrote:

The_Wicker_Man wrote:

Looking at an older Domane for next year or a Roubaix.

So, out of interest, what is saddle height in your photo? From centre of BB to top of saddle.

79cm

turbo1191 wrote:

it is a super stiff frame and a bit of a bone rattler.

Especially on some of the rough roads here in Scotland with 23mm tyres.

turbo1191

I feel your pain.. I too stay in Scotland!

mfin

The_Wicker_Man wrote:

mfin wrote:

The_Wicker_Man wrote:

Looking at an older Domane for next year or a Roubaix.

So, out of interest, what is saddle height in your photo? From centre of BB to top of saddle.

79cm

Ah, that explains a bit. You're most likely one of those people who is not so flexy and your legs are quite long for your height. So to get a good fit if you go for bigger frames they'll quickly end up too long for you, and not going for bigger frames will often mean they are too low at the front and your drop is a bit too much.
(Unless your arms are also like Mr Tickle's).

You'll most likely want a bike with a tall headtube and not with excessive reach, so the Domane is a reasonable shout. A lot of non-bendy oldies end up on bikes like this, but it sounds like your body proportions could be pointing you to bikes like this before you even take into account lake of flexibility.

The thing you need to remember is certain frame geometries mean some people would not get a good fit on any size. For instance a Domane would be useless to me just as a Canyon Aeroad would be useless for the opposite reasons. Once you know your fit you'll start to know (or an expert will tell you what will fit). I can look at any geometry chart for any bike and work out if there is a size for me, what layback it will be and spacers and stem length in a minute flat. It only ever leaves confirmations on headset topcap stack heights and BB drops to account for and check.

I'd guess your bike fits so far could be wrong, or are compromised by what's possible on the bikes you have.

(Oh... one last thing, you're not adding to discomfort by running daft tyre pressures for your weight are you? How heavy are you and what are you putting in those 23's, not that it would solve anything, but people do go mad with tyre pressures).

The_Wicker_Man

Yes, I have longer legs than my torso and arms and poor flexibility, better than I used to have but still pretty poor. Put on a 10kg this year, so currently weigh 100kg. I run 110ps on 23mm, 100ps on 25mm and around 90ps on 28mm.

kirkee

How about considering the Giant Defy bikes, they seem to have very tall head tubes with relatively short reach.

mfin

The_Wicker_Man wrote:

Yes, I have longer legs than my torso and arms and poor flexibility, better than I used to have but still pretty poor. Put on a 10kg this year, so currently weigh 100kg. I run 110ps on 23mm, 100ps on 25mm and around 90ps on 28mm.

Not sure how you managed to buy bikes that weren't suitable geometry for you, maybe nobody helped you when buying and you just picked a bike you liked and a size (people do, assuming that's all bike buying is).

Basically it looks like your bike fit is wrong and can't really be achieved on that bike.

You have to imagine that your bike fit is like the BB, Saddle and Bars floating in mid air, imagine a photo where those are the only 3 things you can see and their positions in relation to each other are now fixed and completely correct for you. Now, once you have that, you can draw in anything you like underneath that will work, it could be a clowns bike that sits you 20ft in the air as long as those 3 points are the same. But, you will find some bikes you just can't make work.

I believe it is likely that you have not got those 3 points right and if you did, you wouldn't be able to achieve them on that bike.

(Tyres you're pretty ok with, all good).

daniel_b

I am in a similar boat to you.

5ft 10, 34" inseam, means my reach is not all that, and I have back issues.

I now have my 54 CR1 fitted nicely, 90mm upturned stem, 20mm layback seatpost, and yes there is a lot of seatpost showing.
I started with an inline seatpost, but as I rode it more my flexibility improved, and I could move to a setback post - experimented first by just sliding the saddle back.

I am now totally happy with it, though I did try the stem tuther way up, but that was a bridge too far.

If you are looking for all day comfort, then I can heartily recommend the synapse, for people of our kind of dimensions, it's verging on perfection.
I liked my winter alloy synapse so much, I bought a carbon di2 version too!

The comfort, for me, is breathtaking, and that's on a relatively unforgiving Arione CX saddle.

Try and test ride one, suspect you will need a 56, and see what you make of it, would be intrigued to hear what your impressions are.

And when I harp on about the comfort, it's still a very enjoyable involving ride, and accelerates beautifully, not as razor sharp as I find the CR1, but the Synapse excells on it's own merits beyond simply comfort.

turbo1191

If I decide to part with my CR1 it will be either a domane , defy or a synapse. I had a defy before the CR1 and to be fair it was a nicer ride.. my CR1 build is about 1.2kg lighter though..

The_Wicker_Man

Daniel B wrote:

Try and test ride one, suspect you will need a 56, and see what you make of it, would be intrigued to hear what your impressions are.

Might have a look next year. Got a CAAD12 disc frame from Sigma sport for a very good price, which I'm currently building (I also got a bike fit from them and a test ride too). If I prefer it to the CR1 I might buy the non disc version next year of even the evo as it's the same geometry as the CAAD12. The CAAD12 is a 58cm frame.