Hubs

Jamiedmiller

Hi guys!

Completely new to road bikes, and purchased a Fuji Transonic 2.5 2016 a few months ago. My knowledge is almost non-existent with the bike, and I’m looking at upgrading my hubs already! However, I’m struggling with the rear hub specs, I’m not sure which option I should be choosing!

Currently I have ‘Oval’ branded hubs. The Cassette is a Shimano 105, 11-28T 11 speed. And the wheelset is Oval 327, 20/24h (good old Google!). Now, I presume the 20/24h meaning 20 hole front and 24 hole rear?!

I’m looking at getting either Hope Mono RS or White Industries T11 rear hub (advice on which hubs to look at would be appreciated!). If I’ve assumed correctly on the above, I’ll obviously need the 24h rear hub. However, I’m struggling with the size of the hub, given the option of 130mm or 135mm. Does this matter? In my little brain I’m thinking it’s an 11 speed cassette, therefore I’d require the larger 135mm hub? Am I right in thinking this?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

ugo.santalucia

You can't change the hubs alone and I am not sure why you want to change the hubs... is it because they don't look good?

Jamiedmiller

ugo.santalucia wrote:

You can't change the hubs alone and I am not sure why you want to change the hubs... is it because they don't look good?

Thanks for the reply.

Apparently I love spending money!

What do you mean? I was going to obtain some hubs and get them fitted to my current set of wheels..would the spokes require replacement at the same time?

daniel_b

Jamiedmiller wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

You can't change the hubs alone and I am not sure why you want to change the hubs... is it because they don't look good?

Thanks for the reply.

Apparently I love spending money!

What do you mean? I was going to obtain some hubs and get them fitted to my current set of wheels..would the spokes require replacement at the same time?

Would your money not be better spent buying complete new and lighter wheels, than buying hubs, and paying someone to relace them to your original wheels?

That way you get a spare set of wheels, either to flog or for winter\turbo use etc etc

Ugo will know of course, but I didn't think you can automatically use spokes with different hubs, pertaining to their length requirements - I await to be educated.

Jamiedmiller

Daniel B wrote:

Jamiedmiller wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

You can't change the hubs alone and I am not sure why you want to change the hubs... is it because they don't look good?

Thanks for the reply.

Apparently I love spending money!

What do you mean? I was going to obtain some hubs and get them fitted to my current set of wheels..would the spokes require replacement at the same time?

Would your money not be better spent buying complete new and lighter wheels, than buying hubs, and paying someone to relace them to your original wheels?

That way you get a spare set of wheels, either to flog or for winter\turbo use etc etc

Ugo will know of course, but I didn't think you can automatically use spokes with different hubs, pertaining to their length requirements - I await to be educated.

Fair shout - which I may do one day....but I'm just looking at hubs for now, I'm sure the more I get into it I may very well get a second set of wheels.

I'd just like some advice on the width of the hubs for now please

keef66

Rear hub on a road bike is usually 130 mm OLN if it has rim brakes, and 135mm OLN for disc brakes. (OLN just means over lock nut, which is effectively the space between the dropouts)

If the new hubs are not identical in terms of flange dimensions you may well need new spokes too.

Just replacing the hubs is a bit of an odd thing to do unless you're a wheelbuilder or you have one in the family...

Jamiedmiller

keef66 wrote:

Rear hub on a road bike is usually 130 mm OLN if it has rim brakes, and 135mm OLN for disc brakes. (OLN just means over lock nut, which is effectively the space between the dropouts)

If the new hubs are not identical in terms of flange dimensions you may well need new spokes too.

Just replacing the hubs is a bit of an odd thing to do unless you're a wheelbuilder or you have one in the family...

Ahh, makes sense. Thanks!

Well, in short, been out on a quite a few rides, and on the downhills I never seem to be able to keep up with the group (even with sitting at the back), I have decent enough tyres, I was told to try better freewheeling hubs....

The Rookie

Spin them, are the draggy or not, if they wheels spin freely its something else!

Tyre pressures, tyres, riding position, weight (heavier is faster downhill), aerodynamics etc etc

keef66

Jamiedmiller wrote:

keef66 wrote:

Rear hub on a road bike is usually 130 mm OLN if it has rim brakes, and 135mm OLN for disc brakes. (OLN just means over lock nut, which is effectively the space between the dropouts)

If the new hubs are not identical in terms of flange dimensions you may well need new spokes too.

Just replacing the hubs is a bit of an odd thing to do unless you're a wheelbuilder or you have one in the family...

Ahh, makes sense. Thanks!

Well, in short, been out on a quite a few rides, and on the downhills I never seem to be able to keep up with the group (even with sitting at the back), I have decent enough tyres, I was told to try better freewheeling hubs....

I doubt it's friction in the hubs holding you back. Close, race fit clothing and an aerodynamic position on the bike will help. If you're small and light, the bigger lads are always going to descend faster than you; they get more help from gravity.

daniel_b

That sounds like a strange suggestion you have been given imho.

Out of interest, what bike is it, what wheels, and what tyres?

So the likelihood is you would need to splash out for hre hubs and spokes, and then pay someone to built them, only re-using the rims - I can't see that costing any less than a decent pair of handbuilt wheels, or an off the peg pair.
And all you will have left over is two hubs and a load of spokes, which I guess you could use for some kind of sculpture :-)

Having said that, I am collecting wheels, as I plan to make a table out of them at some point.

Jamiedmiller

Daniel B wrote:

That sounds like a strange suggestion you have been given imho.

Out of interest, what bike is it, what wheels, and what tyres?

So the likelihood is you would need to splash out for hre hubs and spokes, and then pay someone to built them, only re-using the rims - I can't see that costing any less than a decent pair of handbuilt wheels, or an off the peg pair.
And all you will have left over is two hubs and a load of spokes, which I guess you could use for some kind of sculpture :-)

Having said that, I am collecting wheels, as I plan to make a table out of them at some point.

Oh d'ya think? TBH I thought a new set of wheels would be far more expensive....you can see how much research I've done on this :oops:

Some Hope hubs I found for £130, I thought maybe rebuilding would be £60-70 based on a few web searches at local bike shops.

The specs are on my original post...I don't think they're anything special tbh.

daniel_b

Others on here, who perhaps build wheels, will have a far better insight, and I am sure will be along soon.

But if you are going to send the wheels off, and get them back, that is £13 a pop.
Handbuilt start, I think, at about £300 (?), of which I am guessing the rims are maybe £60 of the value?

Apologies for missing the bike, and wheels etc in your first post :oops:

My gf has a Fuji 1.1 LE, and very nice it is too, though the wheels are heavy - as a lot of stock wheels are.
If it's to be your all year round bike (?) then buying a lighter set of wheels for summer use, and then hammering these heavier stock ones during the winter makes a huge amount of sense - or if you turbo, whacking a turbo tyre on and having it ready to go for indoor training if you prefer.

Back in the day a pair of Campag Zonda's were kind of 'the' wheels to get for around £250, cheapest I can see them for now is £265 which isn't too bad.
Then there are offerings from Superstar components which might be worth a look ( I bought some 1650g-ish 30mm rims) for my gf's Scott for £90 delivered, which was nuts, and so far they have been spot on.

At a very rough guess, I expect your wheels minus tyres and QR levers are potentially topping the scales at about 2000g.
That was certainly the case with the wheels from my Synapses.

mrb123

Not sure lighter wheels are going to help him go faster downhill though...

daniel_b

MrB123 wrote:

Not sure lighter wheels are going to help him go faster downhill though...

Fair point, and well made

Alex99

Jamiedmiller wrote:

Daniel B wrote:

That sounds like a strange suggestion you have been given imho.

Out of interest, what bike is it, what wheels, and what tyres?

So the likelihood is you would need to splash out for hre hubs and spokes, and then pay someone to built them, only re-using the rims - I can't see that costing any less than a decent pair of handbuilt wheels, or an off the peg pair.
And all you will have left over is two hubs and a load of spokes, which I guess you could use for some kind of sculpture :-)

Having said that, I am collecting wheels, as I plan to make a table out of them at some point.

Oh d'ya think? TBH I thought a new set of wheels would be far more expensive....you can see how much research I've done on this :oops:

Some Hope hubs I found for £130, I thought maybe rebuilding would be £60-70 based on a few web searches at local bike shops.

The specs are on my original post...I don't think they're anything special tbh.

Generally, the rim is the consumable part of the wheel. I don't know of anyone (apart from hobbyist wheelbuilder perhaps) that would swap a hub in an already complete wheel unless there was definitely something very badly wrong with the hub, AND the rim and spokes were pretty much new.

If you can turn the axle with your fingers, then that isn't the reason for slow descending. I suggest that if a hub had enough friction to make a significant difference in descending speed, it would basically be destroyed after a few rides.

What is it you're really asking?

ugo.santalucia

At the speed you go downhill, it's almost totally governed by aerodynamic drag. Could be that your clothes are not tight fitting, your helmet might be more of a "sucker" than others, your aero position is not that aero after all, or you simply have too much "wake" meaning the air drops in a turbulent flow just behind your back and slows you down.

I suggest you spend an hour in the wind tunnel and that should sort you...

Jamiedmiller

Alex99 wrote:

Jamiedmiller wrote:

Daniel B wrote:

That sounds like a strange suggestion you have been given imho.

Out of interest, what bike is it, what wheels, and what tyres?

So the likelihood is you would need to splash out for hre hubs and spokes, and then pay someone to built them, only re-using the rims - I can't see that costing any less than a decent pair of handbuilt wheels, or an off the peg pair.
And all you will have left over is two hubs and a load of spokes, which I guess you could use for some kind of sculpture :-)

Having said that, I am collecting wheels, as I plan to make a table out of them at some point.

Oh d'ya think? TBH I thought a new set of wheels would be far more expensive....you can see how much research I've done on this :oops:

Some Hope hubs I found for £130, I thought maybe rebuilding would be £60-70 based on a few web searches at local bike shops.

The specs are on my original post...I don't think they're anything special tbh.

Generally, the rim is the consumable part of the wheel. I don't know of anyone (apart from hobbyist wheelbuilder perhaps) that would swap a hub in an already complete wheel unless there was definitely something very badly wrong with the hub, AND the rim and spokes were pretty much new.

If you can turn the axle with your fingers, then that isn't the reason for slow descending. I suggest that if a hub had enough friction to make a significant difference in descending speed, it would basically be destroyed after a few rides.

What is it you're really asking?

Thanks for the input....not sure on the 'What is it you're really asking?' statement...the (what I had hoped simple) question was on the original post..

Jamiedmiller

ugo.santalucia wrote:

At the speed you go downhill, it's almost totally governed by aerodynamic drag. Could be that your clothes are not tight fitting, your helmet might be more of a "sucker" than others, your aero position is not that aero after all, or you simply have too much "wake" meaning the air drops in a turbulent flow just behind your back and slows you down.

I suggest you spend an hour in the wind tunnel and that should sort you...

Wind tunnel it is 8)

Alex99

Jamiedmiller wrote:

Alex99 wrote:

Jamiedmiller wrote:

Daniel B wrote:

That sounds like a strange suggestion you have been given imho.

Out of interest, what bike is it, what wheels, and what tyres?

So the likelihood is you would need to splash out for hre hubs and spokes, and then pay someone to built them, only re-using the rims - I can't see that costing any less than a decent pair of handbuilt wheels, or an off the peg pair.
And all you will have left over is two hubs and a load of spokes, which I guess you could use for some kind of sculpture :-)

Having said that, I am collecting wheels, as I plan to make a table out of them at some point.

Oh d'ya think? TBH I thought a new set of wheels would be far more expensive....you can see how much research I've done on this :oops:

Some Hope hubs I found for £130, I thought maybe rebuilding would be £60-70 based on a few web searches at local bike shops.

The specs are on my original post...I don't think they're anything special tbh.

Generally, the rim is the consumable part of the wheel. I don't know of anyone (apart from hobbyist wheelbuilder perhaps) that would swap a hub in an already complete wheel unless there was definitely something very badly wrong with the hub, AND the rim and spokes were pretty much new.

If you can turn the axle with your fingers, then that isn't the reason for slow descending. I suggest that if a hub had enough friction to make a significant difference in descending speed, it would basically be destroyed after a few rides.

What is it you're really asking?

Thanks for the input....not sure on the 'What is it you're really asking?' statement...the (what I had hoped simple) question was on the original post..

You did ask a simple question, true.

I'm getting at, you didn't ask the obvious question, which is why am I going slow on descents vs others? Just wondered how you came to the conclusion that it's your hubs.

keef66

He didn't conclude it, somebody else suggested it...

"Well, in short, been out on a quite a few rides, and on the downhills I never seem to be able to keep up with the group (even with sitting at the back), I have decent enough tyres, I was told to try better freewheeling hubs...."

I think we've agreed it wasn't the best possible advice.

Jamiedmiller

keef66 wrote:

He didn't conclude it, somebody else suggested it...

"Well, in short, been out on a quite a few rides, and on the downhills I never seem to be able to keep up with the group (even with sitting at the back), I have decent enough tyres, I was told to try better freewheeling hubs...."

I think we've agreed it wasn't the best possible advice.

Yea I think you're right. As others suggested, I'm definitely on the slimmer side, so that's probably a big part of the reason. A rider just mentioned in passing to try out better hubs (he obviously thought mine weren't decent enough). But yes, from what others have said I don't see an issue with them, the wheel spins freely with no resistance as far as I can tell.

Thanks for the input guys!

Alex99

keef66 wrote:

He didn't conclude it, somebody else suggested it...

"Well, in short, been out on a quite a few rides, and on the downhills I never seem to be able to keep up with the group (even with sitting at the back), I have decent enough tyres, I was told to try better freewheeling hubs...."

I think we've agreed it wasn't the best possible advice.

Missed that. Doh

trailflow

This is totally pointless to only upgrade the rear hub (both hubs is still a pointless upgrade). First thing to do is check the hub end cap/lock nut bolts are not too tight and are not causing any unwanted drag. Spin the bearing by hand, are they smooth and spin easy ? If yes ,there is nothing wrong with your hubs. If they are very rough or hand to turn then they need adjustment. If they use cartridge bearings, they can be upgraded to higher quality ones but even then effects are quite minimal. If they are cup and cone, they can be serviced and regreased. But bearings normally are still fine if the bike is still only a few month old.

You say you ''never seem to be able to keep up with the group'' Well you have only been riding a road bike for a few months. This could be more a fitness and power output issue, not a hub problem. That day you felt slower could have been down to other factors at play like wind drag or unfamilar road incline,humidity etc

Your current wheels weigh 1920g according to the Fuji website. That/s probably an underestimate and they weigh more which is typically the case. 1900/2000 grams is definitely on the porky side by modern standards. Most of that weight will be in the rims,the brass nipples,and the aero spokes and that weight is rotating and creating a gyroscopic effect as you ride faster. And is likely another reason why your wheels could feel slower and sluggish. Adding a new hub like a Hope or WI (which are also relatively heavyish compared to most other hubs) will not make a blind bit of difference to any of that if you keep the same rims etc.

If you must upgrade, You'd be better of buying a lighter off the shelf wheelset or speccing a custom wheelset with much lighter rims,hubs,nipples and spokes. And aim for at least around 400/500+ grams lighter then your current set to notice any tangible effect in acceleration and handling. But dont be suprised if you still cant keep up with the group. Aero wheels would be the obvious next option at 35-60mm deep but even with those,the average speed is only 1mph faster.

Fancy hubs will not buy you speed gains.

ugo.santalucia

trailflow wrote:

Aero wheels would be the obvious next option at 35-60mm deep but even with those,the average speed is only 1mph faster.

you wish...

trailflow

Even less then? Which further proves my point.

ugo.santalucia

trailflow wrote:

Even less then? Which further which proves my point.

1 mph is a lot... to give you an idea a classic 25 mile TT... will take 1 hour if you do 25 mph... if you do 26 mph, then it will take 2 minutes and 19 seconds less... that is huge... give or take it is the difference between Froome and Quintana.

A better example... if you can do 25 mph with 300 Watt, which is average, then you will need 337 Watt to go at 26 mph... there is no pair of wheels in the world that buy you 37 Watts... I think the wildest manufacturers claims talk about 20 Watt and that is at 30 mph, which buy you less speed than 20 Watts at 25 mph

trailflow

Yep that's huge.

So he would need even more additional aero equipment to notice anything.

Alex99

trailflow wrote:

Yep that's huge.

So he would need even more additional aero equipment to notice anything.

Anyway, descending speed is likely to be skill limited rather than wheels or aero this or that. That is unless the OP lives somewhere with very long straight descents.

Can I ask the OP, in the situations where you have an issue, are you on long straight runs downhill ie. is the difference clearly that the others 'roll' faster than you?