Structured Training: TrainerRoad vs Zwift

cgfw201

Had TrainerRoad for 3 years or so on and off, mainly on during the winter.

Have done 80 sessions in total on TR, mostly Sufferfest vids. Got the ANT+ USB so got all my HR/Cadence/Speed data looped in with the program on my ancient laptop.

Really like TR, particularly with Sufferfest vids but have done a few workouts on there without the videos.

Considering an iPad upgrade at the moment and seen that Zwift is now coming to iOS. I know Zwift has a training mode but there's not much detail online as to what this involves. Is it comparable with TrainerRoad, eg structured sessions based on your FTP which can be used to improve climbing/endurance/sprinting/TTing etc?

Don't want to buy the new iPad and discover I still want to use TR for turbo training.

markhewitt1978

cgfw201 wrote:

Considering an iPad upgrade at the moment and seen that Zwift is now coming to iOS. I know Zwift has a training mode but there's not much detail online as to what this involves. Is it comparable with TrainerRoad, eg structured sessions based on your FTP which can be used to improve climbing/endurance/sprinting/TTing etc?

Yes it is! I used TR before switching to Zwift and Zwift workout mode works in almost exactly the same way, in that there are a library of workouts to choose from, or some workout plans and then it will hold you to power targets along the way. Of course instead of you just following a line on a graph (although that's there too), you can see your rider pedalling in the virtual world. A nice feature is that you go through a glowing coloured arch at the start/end of each of your intervals.

The workout creator is really easy to use too, drag and drop, far easier than TR.

IMO with Zwift around there's no particular reason to subscribe to TR as it provides everything TR does but also a lot more in terms of free riding, interacting with other riders, racing etc.

cgfw201

markhewitt1978 wrote:

cgfw201 wrote:

Considering an iPad upgrade at the moment and seen that Zwift is now coming to iOS. I know Zwift has a training mode but there's not much detail online as to what this involves. Is it comparable with TrainerRoad, eg structured sessions based on your FTP which can be used to improve climbing/endurance/sprinting/TTing etc?

Yes it is! I used TR before switching to Zwift and Zwift workout mode works in almost exactly the same way, in that there are a library of workouts to choose from, or some workout plans and then it will hold you to power targets along the way. Of course instead of you just following a line on a graph (although that's there too), you can see your rider pedalling in the virtual world. A nice feature is that you go through a glowing coloured arch at the start/end of each of your intervals.

The workout creator is really easy to use too, drag and drop, far easier than TR.

IMO with Zwift around there's no particular reason to subscribe to TR as it provides everything TR does but also a lot more in terms of free riding, interacting with other riders, racing etc.

Cool. Sounds good enough for me. Just need to get a set of Wahoo bluetooth hr/cadence/speed and a new iPad and I'm there.

fat daddy

Structured Training in Zwift SUCKS !!!!!!

well, ok, id doesn't suck ... I suck at being motivated to do it. The problem with Zwift is I ride at 5am in the morning, with all the intention in the world to do workouts, but at 5:30 there is a daily dZi Igniter group ride .. the whole social side of it, riding in a pack, the drafting, leadouts, sprints, cadence work, single gear laps increasing the wkg each lap etc is so sodding addictive that I never do any of the workouts.

Then at the weekend, when there isn't a group ride at that time ... I "should" do a workout, but cycling to the top of the radar station up in the snow trying to beat your time is again too addictive !

markhewitt1978

You're not wrong! I rarely use the workout mode, as there's so much else to do. I'd like to get onto the dZi rides, as I ride Tues, Thurs starting at 6am, it starts just that bit too early for me.

sloppyschleckonds

Do you think this will ever replace riding a bike?

markhewitt1978

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Do you think this will ever replace riding a bike?

No.

sloppyschleckonds

markhewitt1978 wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Do you think this will ever replace riding a bike?

No.

What is the split % between outside riding and your virtual buddies?

markhewitt1978

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

markhewitt1978 wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Do you think this will ever replace riding a bike?

No.

What is the split % between outside riding and your virtual buddies?

Me? This time of year I use it to do a bit of extra riding through the week, usually Tuesdays & Thursdays for 1 hour in the morning. Then I'll do a 3-4 hour ride outside on a Sunday, usually 40-50 miles.

If the weather isn't favourable on Sundays then I might do a couple of hours on Zwift (or tacx films).

During the few months of the year when was light at 6am I was riding outside and didn't use Zwift at all.

sloppyschleckonds

markhewitt1978 wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

markhewitt1978 wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Do you think this will ever replace riding a bike?

No.

What is the split % between outside riding and your virtual buddies?

Me? This time of year I use it to do a bit of extra riding through the week, usually Tuesdays & Thursdays for 1 hour in the morning. Then I'll do a 3-4 hour ride outside on a Sunday, usually 40-50 miles.

If the weather isn't favourable on Sundays then I might do a couple of hours on Zwift (or tacx films).

During the few months of the year when was light at 6am I was riding outside and didn't use Zwift at all.

I try not to use a turbo except for January & February, just wondering if it can relieve the boredom or whether its just a novelty for the iPad generation.
I used TrainerRoad 3 or 4 years ago and thought how dull that was.

markhewitt1978

Trainer Road was pretty dull to be fair. But there's enough in Zwift to keep me looking forward to riding it for an hour twice a week. It's interesting in a different way to outside, more chasing other riders, segments and the likes.

antsmithmk

I only briefly flirted with trainerroad many moons ago, but is there a reward system for completing an interval? You get this on zwift.

jgsi

Just a brief summary of both the mentioned.
I used a free month of Trainer Road again... the PC app is better and clearer, but I found myself just using my Sufferfest videos for the workouts.. but these and the app make for some kind of structure... however not going forward with this again.
Zwift using their 14 day free.... underwhelmed by it, I'm afraid.
I was never a gamer but its like going back 15 years, very 1 dimensional and absolutely no structure to it.
I baulk at the idea of having to get a smart controllable trainer that costs more than a decent mudguarded winter hack just to get more value.

Back to the Sufferfest videos which have consistently improved over the years with their production values.. I shall await their windows training app in October..

I admit just sitting on a turbo and riding without any tech just does not cut anymore like it used to.

sloppyschleckonds

JGSI wrote:

Just a brief summary of both the mentioned.
I used a free month of Trainer Road again... the PC app is better and clearer, but I found myself just using my Sufferfest videos for the workouts.. but these and the app make for some kind of structure... however not going forward with this again.
Zwift using their 14 day free.... underwhelmed by it, I'm afraid.
I was never a gamer but its like going back 15 years, very 1 dimensional and absolutely no structure to it.
I baulk at the idea of having to get a smart controllable trainer that costs more than a decent mudguarded winter hack just to get more value.

Back to the Sufferfest videos which have consistently improved over the years with their production values.. I shall await their windows training app in October..

I admit just sitting on a turbo and riding without any tech just does not cut anymore like it used to.

Sounds familiar, one thing i didn't mention is I do put a sufferfest videos on but haven't got any of the latest ones, mainly because I found a lot of them were focused on high intensity which probably isn't best in Jan/Feb

cgfw201

How much of an issue is not having a smart trainer for Zwift?

I've got an Elite Fluid Elastogel, fairly basic but does the job. Never had an issue with it on TrainerRoad doing Sufferfest vids. Can ride at whatever virtual power is needed without problems, usually 150-400 watts for whatever period of time.

Assume would be similar for Zwift? Can see why having hills replicated would be nice but surely riding at 400w is riding at 400w regardless of if your trainer is simulating it or not?

can afford a new iPad for Zwift, can't afford a new iPad AND trainer!

Dave_P1

I use Zwift without a smart trainer and it's fine. The downside is if you were doing the group rides then you miss out on the drafting benefit and the trainer won't adjust the resistance to the terrain but if you can live with that then crack on with what you have at the mo

markhewitt1978

Dave_P1 wrote:

I use Zwift without a smart trainer and it's fine. The downside is if you were doing the group rides then you miss out on the drafting benefit and the trainer won't adjust the resistance to the terrain but if you can live with that then crack on with what you have at the mo

You won't miss out on the drafting effect. Even on smart trainers they don't adjust the resistance when you're in the draft, your in game speed just increases for the same effort.

Senninha

I used to use TR and absolutely loved the effects of it. albeit staring at charts wasn't interesting. Initially I didn't like Zwift training as much, but (a) the Zwift training has got much better, and (b) I use Zwift all the time as it is SOOOOOOO much more entertaining, and just keeping the mind occupied while training. Added to that as others have said there's a load of other things to do, such as go off climbing hills, joining group rides and the like.

In my opinion Zwift has utterly changed the landscape as far as turbos are concerned. Heaven knows what it will be like if they manage to add the VR aspects.

sloppyschleckonds

Senninha wrote:

I used to use TR and absolutely loved the effects of it. albeit staring at charts wasn't interesting. Initially I didn't like Zwift training as much, but (a) the Zwift training has got much better, and (b) I use Zwift all the time as it is SOOOOOOO much more entertaining, and just keeping the mind occupied while training. Added to that as others have said there's a load of other things to do, such as go off climbing hills, joining group rides and the like.

In my opinion Zwift has utterly changed the landscape as far as turbos are concerned. Heaven knows what it will be like if they manage to add the VR aspects.

So you're a fan then? DO you sacrifice outside rides for a turbo session?

fat daddy

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Dave_P1 wrote:

You won't miss out on the drafting effect. Even on smart trainers they don't adjust the resistance when you're in the draft, your in game speed just increases for the same effort.

Isnt the effect the same though

If I have to pedal at 250w to maintain 24mph on my own. But in the centre of the pack, my speed increases for the same power, but the pack is only doing 24mph so I have to reduce my power to 200w to stay at 24mph

the effect is the same ..... 50w saving for the same speed .... resistance has reduced by 50w to do 24mph ?

markhewitt1978

fat daddy wrote:

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Dave_P1 wrote:

You won't miss out on the drafting effect. Even on smart trainers they don't adjust the resistance when you're in the draft, your in game speed just increases for the same effort.

Isnt the effect the same though

If I have to pedal at 250w to maintain 24mph on my own. But in the centre of the pack, my speed increases for the same power, but the pack is only doing 24mph so I have to reduce my power to 200w to stay at 24mph

the effect is the same ..... 50w saving for the same speed .... resistance has reduced by 50w to do 24mph ?

Yes of course; you either go faster for the same effort or you can maintain the same speed for less effort, amounts to the same thing. My point is just that this works in exactly the same way if using a smart trainer or traditional trainer.

On a smart trainer resistance on your trainer does not decrease in the draft, it's only your virtual speed in the game which is affected, so you can soft pedal or shift to a lower gear, but the resistance you're pushing against is the same.

Dave_P1

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Dave_P1 wrote:

I use Zwift without a smart trainer and it's fine. The downside is if you were doing the group rides then you miss out on the drafting benefit and the trainer won't adjust the resistance to the terrain but if you can live with that then crack on with what you have at the mo

You won't miss out on the drafting effect. Even on smart trainers they don't adjust the resistance when you're in the draft, your in game speed just increases for the same effort.

Thanks for clearing that up as I thought that was one of the advantages. Well, that makes me even feel better about using my normal turbo

bobmcstuff

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

JGSI wrote:

Just a brief summary of both the mentioned.
I used a free month of Trainer Road again... the PC app is better and clearer, but I found myself just using my Sufferfest videos for the workouts.. but these and the app make for some kind of structure... however not going forward with this again.
Zwift using their 14 day free.... underwhelmed by it, I'm afraid.
I was never a gamer but its like going back 15 years, very 1 dimensional and absolutely no structure to it.
I baulk at the idea of having to get a smart controllable trainer that costs more than a decent mudguarded winter hack just to get more value.

Back to the Sufferfest videos which have consistently improved over the years with their production values.. I shall await their windows training app in October..

I admit just sitting on a turbo and riding without any tech just does not cut anymore like it used to.

Sounds familiar, one thing i didn't mention is I do put a sufferfest videos on but haven't got any of the latest ones, mainly because I found a lot of them were focused on high intensity which probably isn't best in Jan/Feb

Not sure where you got up to with Sufferfest vids but they have a few base/sweetspot ones now. The Way Out (60min) and To Get To The Other Side (90min) are the 2 I've got in that category. TGTTOS in particular has some really stunning scenery which is good for keeping me involved (needs to be for 90 minutes!).

Can do a free trial of the app as well I think.

sloppyschleckonds

As I'm only bashing out intervals on the turbo theres no way I'm prepared to pay for it.

Im guessing Zwift isn't free either?

jgsi

Install Golden Cheetah on yur laptop/mac.
It has a training mode... it reads ANT+ devices, you can get workout profiles and you can run videos.

It's a learning curve sadly... but it is all freeware.

markhewitt1978

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

As I'm only bashing out intervals on the turbo theres no way I'm prepared to pay for it.

Im guessing Zwift isn't free either?

No it's £8/month. You get 14 days free to start and if you're a paid up member of Strava Premium you get two free months to start with - and you get that every year. So if you're paying for Strava anyway and only riding turbo through the winter you could end up just paying for 1 or 2 months.

sloppyschleckonds

So £8 for Zwift, £4 for Strava, £10 for Trainerroad and a similar amount if you subscribe to Sufferfest.

But I'm sure you don't need it all

bobmcstuff

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

As I'm only bashing out intervals on the turbo theres no way I'm prepared to pay for it.

Im guessing Zwift isn't free either?

Valid. Although if paying a bit of money means I'm more likely to do the intervals it's ok with me.

I think the best value sufferfest for me has been Nine Hammers - it's pretty unpleasant but when you hit all the intervals just right it's satisfying and it seems to be quite effective too. Done it loads of times.

I don't like the ones where they muck about with standing and stupidly low cadences etc.

moscowflyer

Been a while since I've used the turbo. I'm definitely more of a TR person at the moment, got fed up with how seriously people started taking Zwift. I got an email to say I could use it for free in Nov and Dec though as I'm Strava premium, so will try it again. Can you change direction these days and do 'hill' repeats for example?

fat daddy

yup, you can turn around and go the other way at the touch of a button ... .so hill repeats are easy peasy

out of interest ... how were people taking Zwift too seriously ... and how did they impose this seriousness on you ? ... I am on it everyday including logging it to Strava and in the few months of using it have only had the odd thumbs up from strangers and few people that now follow me on Strava, from getting to know me in the group rides when you find yourself out the back of the pack and have to work in a groupetto to catch back up

Even the races are light hearted and good natured .... although that probably because I am in the bottom groups and we all know we are sh1te

bobmcstuff

I see the sufferfest app now has a virtual power function. Interested to see how that works out.