Turbos that do 1500w?

daddy0

Looking at buying my first trainer, and as a bit of a sprinter I would like something that can handle some high power efforts. I have borrowed a Cycleops fluid trainer from a friend in the past and whenever I put any real power through it I got a lot of wheel slip. I have recorded 1450w on three different stationary trainers in the past, so that might have something to do with it? 8)

So what should I be going for? Would consider rollers if they're better for this sort of thing?

Or should I not worry about sprints and just use it for endurance over winter?

Many thanks!

snappygear

Wattbike Pro should cover your wattage expectations... little pricey, but refurbs come up frequently..

dowtcha

Look at some direct drive trainers so you don't get any wheel slip. The tacx neo and kickr can both handle that power with the neo able to handle 2200 watts. Downside is the price. Tacx have a new trainer called the flux which will do 1500 and is a lot cheaper and goes on sale next month.

sloppyschleckonds

Lemond Revolution

sungod

the kurt road machine/rock and roll units (fluid one, not the upcoming magnetic) go to > 3000 watts, the roller is larger than some so slip should be less of an issue, depends how fast you accelerate though, the big flywheel gives much better feel than normal turbos

but sprinting on a turbo is not like on the road, i've got a road machine, not tried the rock and roll, maybe it's better as it allows bike movement

daddy0

Thanks for all the ideas people :-)

Sounds like direct drive is the way I need to go then. I can't seem to find a Lemond Revolution for sale anywhere?

Looks like its between 2:

Currently reading up on Elite Volano Direct Drive Home Trainer, which is £315 - says it resists over 1200w, might be enough?

Or a CycleOps Silencer Direct Drive Mag Trainer for £360. Can't find any details about how much resistance it offers though.

daddy0

Elite Turbo Muin Smart B+ looks good too. Up to 3600w and transmits power and speed to Ant+. £383 - a bit more than I was hoping to spend, but sounds like it might be worth it.

https://www.mantel.com/uk/elite-turbo-muin-smart-b

Edit - can be had for £354 from AthleteShop including delivery to UK.

ugo.santalucia

Daddy0 wrote:

Elite Turbo Muin Smart B+ looks good too. Up to 3600w and transmits power and speed to Ant+. £383 - a bit more than I was hoping to spend, but sounds like it might be worth it.

https://www.mantel.com/uk/elite-turbo-muin-smart-b

Edit - can be had for £354 from AthleteShop including delivery to UK.

This is planet Earth... AFAIK Chris Hoy max output was around 2300 Watt and Cavendish is around 1600 W... not sure why one would need 3600 Watt unless you want to put Kittel and Greipel to turbo-sprint on a tandem. Also the 1450 you recorded seems VERY generous, but it might be that you are a naturally talented sprinter... I think I would struggle to put down 700 Watt even for a couple of seconds

Rollers? Rollers are to develop cadence, not power... never seen anyone spinning 120 RPM on a set of rollers with a big gear, but it could be entertaining just to see the crash...

Midlands Grimpeur

The Elite Turbo Muin has massive resistance. If you do have the kind of sprint power you suggest you will be fine but if not I would think carefully. I kept mine for about a week and then returned it as I could manage about 30mins in a tiny gear before it felt like my legs were going to give out!

Also bear in mind you need the misuro bluetooth to get speed/power data (unless you have a crank based power meter already fitted) and that will set you back another £50.

jgsi

Yes, rollers are not for power as such... but do a workout such as Violator for an hour.. and it'll have you crying and building up useful training effect, even on rollers.
The thought of manhandling a bike frame on a fixed turbo at these super high wattages will make your bike warranty wince a bit.

daddy0

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Also the 1450 you recorded seems VERY generous, but it might be that you are a naturally talented sprinter... I think I would struggle to put down 700 Watt even for a couple of seconds

Had the same result on 2 Wattbikes and another turbo with power meter in a "who can generate the most power" competition. People tend to ask "how do you do that?" - I think many years of riding BMX in a rough neighbourhood is the answer.

Midlands Grimpeur wrote:

The Elite Turbo Muin has massive resistance. If you do have the kind of sprint power you suggest you will be fine but if not I would think carefully. I kept mine for about a week and then returned it as I could manage about 30mins in a tiny gear before it felt like my legs were going to give out!

Hmm, that doesn't sound great, my wife would want to use it... So might not be for us then.

Midlands Grimpeur wrote:

Also bear in mind you need the misuro bluetooth to get speed/power data (unless you have a crank based power meter already fitted) and that will set you back another £50.

I believe the B+ comes with the sensor.

JGSI wrote:

The thought of manhandling a bike frame on a fixed turbo at these super high wattages will make your bike warranty wince a bit.

I have an old bike or two that I'll use.

Alex99

Daddy0 wrote:

Looking at buying my first trainer, and as a bit of a sprinter I would like something that can handle some high power efforts. I have borrowed a Cycleops fluid trainer from a friend in the past and whenever I put any real power through it I got a lot of wheel slip. I have recorded 1450w on three different stationary trainers in the past, so that might have something to do with it? 8)

So what should I be going for? Would consider rollers if they're better for this sort of thing?

Or should I not worry about sprints and just use it for endurance over winter?

Many thanks!

Isn't it a bit odd to do sprint training on a turbo when you can't ride out of the saddle with the same technique that you'd use on the road?

philbar72

Alex99 wrote:

Daddy0 wrote:

Looking at buying my first trainer, and as a bit of a sprinter I would like something that can handle some high power efforts. I have borrowed a Cycleops fluid trainer from a friend in the past and whenever I put any real power through it I got a lot of wheel slip. I have recorded 1450w on three different stationary trainers in the past, so that might have something to do with it? 8)

So what should I be going for? Would consider rollers if they're better for this sort of thing?

Or should I not worry about sprints and just use it for endurance over winter?

Many thanks!

Isn't it a bit odd to do sprint training on a turbo when you can't ride out of the saddle with the same technique that you'd use on the road?

this, exactly. seated spinups are good, but out of the saddle, not even close.

Alex99

philbar72 wrote:

Alex99 wrote:

Daddy0 wrote:

Looking at buying my first trainer, and as a bit of a sprinter I would like something that can handle some high power efforts. I have borrowed a Cycleops fluid trainer from a friend in the past and whenever I put any real power through it I got a lot of wheel slip. I have recorded 1450w on three different stationary trainers in the past, so that might have something to do with it? 8)

So what should I be going for? Would consider rollers if they're better for this sort of thing?

Or should I not worry about sprints and just use it for endurance over winter?

Many thanks!

Isn't it a bit odd to do sprint training on a turbo when you can't ride out of the saddle with the same technique that you'd use on the road?

this, exactly. seated spinups are good, but out of the saddle, not even close.

...unless he's a trackie, I guess.

bigmat

Daddy0 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Also the 1450 you recorded seems VERY generous, but it might be that you are a naturally talented sprinter... I think I would struggle to put down 700 Watt even for a couple of seconds

Had the same result on 2 Wattbikes and another turbo with power meter in a "who can generate the most power" competition. People tend to ask "how do you do that?" - I think many years of riding BMX in a rough neighbourhood is the answer.

Midlands Grimpeur wrote:

The Elite Turbo Muin has massive resistance. If you do have the kind of sprint power you suggest you will be fine but if not I would think carefully. I kept mine for about a week and then returned it as I could manage about 30mins in a tiny gear before it felt like my legs were going to give out!

Hmm, that doesn't sound great, my wife would want to use it... So might not be for us then.

Midlands Grimpeur wrote:

Also bear in mind you need the misuro bluetooth to get speed/power data (unless you have a crank based power meter already fitted) and that will set you back another £50.

I believe the B+ comes with the sensor.

JGSI wrote:

The thought of manhandling a bike frame on a fixed turbo at these super high wattages will make your bike warranty wince a bit.

I have an old bike or two that I'll use.

How long can you hold 1450w for? I have maxed out at 1850 or so on wattbike, but only for a couple of seconds. On a turbo I would be trying to replicate an actual sprint rather than a willy waving "how much power can I generate" exercise, so would be significantly less (and no more than my Cycleops fluid pro can handle). If you save your sprint training for the end of your workout (which more realistically reflects sprinting at the end of a race) you'll have even less to worry about.

dinyull

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Daddy0 wrote:

Elite Turbo Muin Smart B+ looks good too. Up to 3600w and transmits power and speed to Ant+. £383 - a bit more than I was hoping to spend, but sounds like it might be worth it.

https://www.mantel.com/uk/elite-turbo-muin-smart-b

Edit - can be had for £354 from AthleteShop including delivery to UK.

This is planet Earth... AFAIK Chris Hoy max output was around 2300 Watt and Cavendish is around 1600 W... not sure why one would need 3600 Watt unless you want to put Kittel and Greipel to turbo-sprint on a tandem. Also the 1450 you recorded seems VERY generous, but it might be that you are a naturally talented sprinter... I think I would struggle to put down 700 Watt even for a couple of seconds

Rollers? Rollers are to develop cadence, not power... never seen anyone spinning 120 RPM on a set of rollers with a big gear, but it could be entertaining just to see the crash...

This

Having been using Trainerroad for a year now I've never came close to producing 1000w.

What intervals do you plan on doing where you'll be putting out over 1500w?

okgo

Do not do full on sprints out of the saddle on the turbo. Unless you want to break your bike, and potentially your shoulder when the bike comes unclipped and you fall off.

Watt bike is the only thing I would consider doing this on, and the reason people get high peaks on those is because they're standing starts, far easier to get a high initial peak from standing start vs when already travelling at a fair speed.

1450w is nothing remarkable, anyone who thinks they're ok at sprinting will be around this assuming they're not under 70kg (just to answer the rest of the thread). If you can't hit 1000w then don't bother thinking of ways to hit 1500 as it won't happen, you have it or you don't.

Sprint drills outside IMO.

bigmat

okgo wrote:

the reason people get high peaks on those is because they're standing starts, far easier to get a high initial peak from standing start vs when already travelling at a fair speed.

True that.

daddy0

Cool, cheers for the advice guys.

Yes I was hitting 1450 on standing starts on wattbikes. Also hit it once on a regular turbo trainer, but from a gentle spin start. Don't think I held it for long! Wasn't trying to wave my willy - just after advice and trying to give the facts, I know that 1450w is good but not that good ;-) Thinking about it, I've only tried max power tests 3 times, and it was a while ago now... I've had 2 years of racing since so probably a bit stronger now? I do currently weigh 70kg, want to get it below that for next season - just had a few lab sessions and was advised that losing weight is the way to go for me! I am pretty good at sprinting, I generally do well in bunch sprints - have won a few in 3rd and 4th cat races.

I *was* thinking about working on my top end on the turbo, and would only do max power test as a marker... ...but I've broken my shoulder before and don't want that to happen again Point taken! I'm a bit green about the whole interval thing, as some of you can no doubt tell. Will probably still go for a direct drive turbo as I can't be doing with wheel slip.

Thanks again.

okgo

Turbo is great for anything, with sprinting being the one exception I think

1450 at your weight is decent to be fair. But as you say, there's a lot to it in a race, more than just a big peak sometimes.