Police target overtaking drivers

rumbataz

At long last! I hope this extends to the entire country. Police are cracking down on drivers who pass too close to cyclists:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-37384899

Motorists who drive too close to cyclists as they overtake are being targeted by police officers on bikes.

Officers in the West Midlands will radio details of "close-pass drivers" for patrol car colleagues to intercept.

Cyclists should be given at least the same space as vehicles, widely considered to be 1.5m (4.9ft), and offending drivers risk prosecution, the force said.

Drivers will initially be offered warnings at the roadside.

But repeat offenders, or anyone deemed to have driven "dangerously close," could expect to be prosecuted for driving without due care and attention, the force said.

pblakeney

Nice idea.
Not going to happen.

ben@31

Another article is saying police are already carrying out undercover cycling operations. However I have doubts what a 15 minute chat is going to change?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... t-83420668

davidof

I don't mind drivers overtaking but every day on my commute i get drivers overtaking in 30kph or 50kph zones where I'm doing the legal limit (so they are breaking the limit) and in places where it is dangerous - such as outside schools at dropping off times. I understand it is even worse in the UK. They do this because they have some kind of psychological problem which means they must overtake all cyclists.

Invariably they will then swing in front of me and brake, holding me up.

Personally I would limit the maximum speed of cars to the local speed limit and also reduce their acceleration to that of a bike. That would calm the drivers down a bit.

StillGoing

As a retired police officer, I can reveal that "Plain clothes officers in the area conducting operations" generally means, we have no resources, but to quell public concerns, we will let you think we are doing something about it and any criminals that can read this article in the press, will avoid the area stamping out the problem without us doing anything.

jgsi

Consider me not sleeping any easier at night to quell my fears of being 'not seen' by a mobile phone chatting, texting, facebooking, last nights alcohol driver. How many registered drivers are there..? 30 million + and ever increasing?

The problem has become just out of control and too big for the deaths and injuries to reduce.

sloppyschleckonds

Its a good initiative, along with a clampdown on mobile phone use

bendertherobot

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Its a good initiative, along with a clampdown on mobile phone use

It is. Save that one is national and the other local. We need all forces to follow suit. And have some more cop cars out there. And enforcement. No one is at all concerned at nicking the chap on my street with the uninsured and untaxed car no matter how many times I report it.

ugo.santalucia

Birmingham is the least cycling friendly city in the UK, it's almost an embarrassment the total lack of lanes and infrastructure. If this initiative is to be taken seriously, it is very much welcome, but I suspect it is one of those empty statements... how to you measure distance and defend your measurement in court? Seems a waste of time... a lane is a better solution... the car is in the lane or out of the lane, simple

bendertherobot

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Birmingham is the least cycling friendly city in the UK, it's almost an embarrassment the total lack of lanes and infrastructure. If this initiative is to be taken seriously, it is very much welcome, but I suspect it is one of those empty statements... how to you measure distance and defend your measurement in court? Seems a waste of time... a lane is a better solution... the car is in the lane or out of the lane, simple

You won't have to measure it. A copper will, provided he sees it. His evidence is better than ours, even if you had a video.

figbat

So what law will actually be broken? Under what act will people be charged? I'd guess there's no specific "passing too close to a cyclist" law so it would presumably come down to a careless, reckless or dangerous driving offence (depending on the severity). In which case nothing has changed, since these driving laws already exist and people already flout them. Makes for good PR though.

bendertherobot

figbat wrote:

So what law will actually be broken? Under what act will people be charged? I'd guess there's no specific "passing too close to a cyclist" law so it would presumably come down to a careless, reckless or dangerous driving offence (depending on the severity). In which case nothing has changed, since these driving laws already exist and people already flout them. Makes for good PR though.

Careless driving.

ugo.santalucia

I agree, without a change in legislation is nothing more than PR

Chummy

So, if West Midlands Police can prosecute a motorist for driving without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration (WDC) (WRC) for not giving a cyclist a 1.5 metre wide berth while overtaking, I wonder if they will act on behalf of a cyclist if the cyclist provided the video evidence of a dodgy overtake by a motorist. This will save on manpower as they won't have to deploy their own cyclists! Interesting...

bendertherobot

Chummy wrote:

So, if West Midlands Police can prosecute a motorist for driving without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration (WDC) (WRC) for not giving a cyclist a 1.5 metre wide berth while overtaking, I wonder if they will act on behalf of a cyclist if the cyclist provided the video evidence of a dodgy overtake by a motorist. This will save on manpower as they won't have to deploy their own cyclists! Interesting...

They should. After all the evidence is sound. Of course tracing the actual driver is sometimes the issue there. At least here they're radioing ahead and getting a colleague to stop.

sniper68

We saw these all over Provence and The Jura :-



99% of drivers gave us more than double the 1.5m.....even White Van man!
Maybe similar signs advising a safe distance here could work?
I think(for the most part) those new signs in built up areas that flash up your speed and a smiley/sad face are more effective than a 30mph limit sign so maybe a "Please give Cyclists "x" amount of room" would possibly work with most drivers?

There will always be idiots though.

ugo.santalucia

ibbo68 wrote:

We saw these all over Provence and The Jura :-



99% of drivers gave us more than double the 1.5m.....even White Van man!
Maybe similar signs advising a safe distance here could work?
I think(for the most part) those new signs in built up areas that flash up your speed and a smiley/sad face are more effective than a 30mph limit sign so maybe a "Please give Cyclists "x" amount of room" would possibly work with most drivers?

There will always be idiots though.

French build roads measuring in meters rather than feet... they work out the same number, but over 3 times the width... it really helps motorists...
Here everything is done at the minimum possible cost and effort. You should see the A 82 around Loch Lomond, only road in the area, carries HGV and all... it's not even wide as two HGV side by side in places.
Heathrow carries the traffic that other airports with 4 or 5 runways carry, but it has 2. Gatwick has the world record for number of flights per hour on a single runway... everything is undersized and works over capacity...

earthvspace4XTuUWcX

everything is undersized and works over capacity...

It's the same for NHS hospitals too :x

bobmcstuff

PBlakeney wrote:

Nice idea.
Not going to happen.

According to another article they have already trialed it (https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... birmingham), and during the 4 trial days 80 people were pulled over.

They probably only need to do it what, one day a month, for it to be worthwhile.

cycleclinic

My simple solution is if you are caught using a mobile or overtaking dangerously, points and your car is crushed into a cube and you have to watch and you thennhave to,pay for disposal.

I manage to not overtake to close by hardly driving. I actually think cars are pointless you cant even get somewhere in reasonable time anymore.

Actually my other solution is to ban everyone from driving and start again you have to pass and rospra or iam level driving test plus on going driving training like pilots get. For other extreme solutions to a variety of problems just ask.

On going driver trainkng is what is really needed without it driving skills cant improve which is why the solution always is to reduce speed limits.

davidof

ibbo68 wrote:

99% of drivers gave us more than double the 1.5m.....even White Van man!

It's the 1% you have to watch out for.

I was particularly peeved cycling to the Vercors from Grenoble the other day when a driver passed me with a few cm to spare on a very wide stretch of road right by one of thos 1.5 meter signs.

rumbataz

Dangerous driving is the one thing that ruins my bike rides. I ride for leisure and fitness and find cycling very therapeutic for my mental wellbeing. But on some occasions, a near miss with a vehicle is incredibly upsetting.

I always allow cars to pass as soon as I can and I acknowledge drivers who I've held up for more than a few seconds. Unfortunately there's a few drivers out there who actually attempt to pass by as close as they can.

Here in the London area it's often vans and minicabs that seem to be the worst offenders.

First.Aspect

The HWC says, "give cyclists as much room as a car". What does that mean? Imagine a car was there and leave as much room from the kerb, no matter where the cyclist is? Does it mean leave enough room to avoid scuffing the wing mirrors? In Scotland we had an incompetent "cycle space" campaign with a child holding their arms out, which suggested to everyone I spoke to that if you give a cyclist about a child's arm-length when you pass, i.e. about 18 inches, that's fine. Even cycle lanes are misleading. If you leave 3 feet from the kerb you have less than that left of the cycle lane on your right. Drivers use the lane marker, rather than the position of the human being, to judge road position when they pass.

This campaign is moderately useful PR, because it actually tells motorists how much room they should leave.

bendertherobot

First Aspect wrote:

The HWC says, "give cyclists as much room as a car". What does that mean? Imagine a car was there and leave as much room from the kerb, no matter where the cyclist is? Does it mean leave enough room to avoid scuffing the wing mirrors? In Scotland we had an incompetent "cycle space" campaign with a child holding their arms out, which suggested to everyone I spoke to that if you give a cyclist about a child's arm-length when you pass, i.e. about 18 inches, that's fine. Even cycle lanes are misleading. If you leave 3 feet from the kerb you have less than that left of the cycle lane on your right. Drivers use the lane marker, rather than the position of the human being, to judge road position when they pass.

This campaign is moderately useful PR, because it actually tells motorists how much room they should leave.

It's been the subject of much debate and the DfT don't consider it's misleading as you are supposed to read it with the photograph next to it which shows, more or less, giving as much as space as you would if passing an imaginary car. But it's still unhelpful and, as difficult as 1.5m can also be, it is a bit easier to understand.

First.Aspect

bendertherobot wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

The HWC says, "give cyclists as much room as a car". What does that mean? Imagine a car was there and leave as much room from the kerb, no matter where the cyclist is? Does it mean leave enough room to avoid scuffing the wing mirrors? In Scotland we had an incompetent "cycle space" campaign with a child holding their arms out, which suggested to everyone I spoke to that if you give a cyclist about a child's arm-length when you pass, i.e. about 18 inches, that's fine. Even cycle lanes are misleading. If you leave 3 feet from the kerb you have less than that left of the cycle lane on your right. Drivers use the lane marker, rather than the position of the human being, to judge road position when they pass.

This campaign is moderately useful PR, because it actually tells motorists how much room they should leave.

It's been the subject of much debate and the DfT don't consider it's misleading as you are supposed to read it with the photograph next to it which shows, more or less, giving as much as space as you would if passing an imaginary car. But it's still unhelpful and, as difficult as 1.5m can also be, it is a bit easier to understand.

Well its easier not to be confused by what you are saying if you are working back from knowing what it is that you are trying to say.

slowmart

It's an imitative which can only be welcomed together with the high profile of the constant danger that cyclists face from poor awareness or aggressive driving behaviour.

I've cut and pasted this from the Guardian which explains that all road-users and even RAF fighter pilots have human blind-spots and are unable to take in all the relevant information from other road-users.

It explains this, and how to counteract these blind-spots.
.
A Fighter Pilot’s Guide to Surviving on the Roads...
What’s wrong with you - are you blind?!!

John Sullivan is a Royal Air Force pilot with over 4000 flight hours, and a keen cyclist. He regards himself as ‘a simple fighter-pilot’ and in this article he describes why collisions can occur and in layman’s terms, how some of the techniques of flying fighters can be used to increase your chances of survival on the roads

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/904 ... 0Final.pdf

It reinforces the point that cyclists need to become more aware and skilled in road craft.

frisbee

“We needed to do something about driver behaviour,” he said. “In about 98% of cases [the collision] was down to driver action, it was nothing to do with the cyclist.”

“We are some of the highest trained road users,” he said of himself and his fellow officers. “We can anticipate anything and everything, but what we can never account for is if someone hits you from behind.”

I'm going with the police in the Guardian article.

Pilots like to feel they are in control. Unfortunately its the moron, obliviously messing around on their phone or maliciously doing a close pass while secretly fantasising about your lycra clad arse, in the big metal box behind you that needs to be in control.

bernithebiker

ugo.santalucia wrote:

French build roads measuring in meters rather than feet... they work out the same number, but over 3 times the width... it really helps motorists...

Agree with this. Used to live in SW London and ride in Surrey, and have ridden a fair bit in Cornwall. The roads are mostly just crap, far too narrow, which just makes it dangerous for everybody, even with well intentioned drivers.

French roads tend to be built to a minimum width (obviously there are exceptions, especially in extreme areas like the mountains), with well maintained grassy verges that give you a safety margin in case of trouble. The surfaces are generally very good too, (unless the striking farmers have melted them...!)

Still get lots of dozy French drivers, but at least there's a bit more room.

keef66

I managed a couple of days riding on a recent holiday in the Algarve, and was struck by the quality of the roads and the considerate overtaking.