What wattage?

shmooster

I'm wondering what maximum power I can get away with on a smart turbo for Zwift.

My current CycleOps Magneto tops out somewhere between 300 and 400 watts and is very easy to spin out on the highest resistance.

I'm looking at the TacX T2240 which has a maximum of 800 watts.

I'm 100KG and according to my stages I occasionally hit 1000 watts (5 second average), although my ftp is only 274 (looking to increase that).

Not that bothered about getting a higher power outage, much more interested in maintaining power for longer for those long alpine climbs (and for the Fred Whitton again next year).

So, does the T2240 sound reasonable for me? More powerful models are a lot more expensive...

jgsi

I wouldnt over think it... even a cheap turbo using a PM .. well if you can do a 5 min interval at a genuine 400 watts without a cardiac... you are doing ok.
I use the Cycleops Fluid...despite of pages and pages of it being quiet.. no it isnt... my old Satori was... tbh the Satori was pretty damned good.

jrich

I think sprints need to be done on the road really, the proper technique just isn't achievable on a turbo. Like you say, its not something you need to train for the Fred Whitton anyway, 800W should be plenty for increasing FTP and improving muscle endurance.

markhewitt1978

jrich wrote:

I think sprints need to be done on the road really, the proper technique just isn't achievable on a turbo. Like you say, its not something you need to train for the Fred Whitton anyway, 800W should be plenty for increasing FTP and improving muscle endurance.

True enough, I've had my goes at sprinting on Zwift and the way that turbo trainer resistance works means it's hard to use that sort of explosive power that you'd need to use out on the road - however it's still a very effective workout.

markhewitt1978

shmooster wrote:

So, does the T2240 sound reasonable for me? More powerful models are a lot more expensive...

The Tacx Flow Smart to give it a more understandable name! Yes I think it will be fine. However it isn't the maximum wattage you really want to be looking at here, it's the slope, since you're training for the Whitton, you want it to be able to simulate a high slope angle, and the Flow only does to 6%.

If you want to simulate Whitton style climbs then unfortunately you're looking at something like the Bushido or Neo! Which can go up to 15 & 25%.

That said, how much does slope simulation on a trainer matter vs just pushing harder gears? From a simulation perspective, it's important, from a training perspective, perhaps less.

fenix

5 second sprints aren't much use on the Fred Whitton - I'd not worry about that.

Are you pure muscle at 100kg or could you stand to lose some weight ? Shed the kilos and you'll climb better.

fat daddy

Fenix wrote:

5 second sprints aren't much use on the Fred Whitton .

5 second sprints arnt much use on zwift either

markhewitt1978

fat daddy wrote:

Fenix wrote:

5 second sprints aren't much use on the Fred Whitton .

5 second sprints arnt much use on zwift either

There's two 0.1 mile sprints on Zwift London where the green jersey is usually 10 seconds or under.

fat daddy

the KOM is 9.88 for the one on the classic (the mall forward) ..... I was in the dZi group ride when that was hit by Carl 2 days ago ... I only managed a 10.11 .. and then missed the last 3 laps, because I totally killed my legs and could keep up with the group any more

damn my weakness and stamina

errrrr .. what was the point of this post ...... oh yeah, you need to sprint for more than 5 seconds.

and likewise, hitting 1000w is do able for 5 seconds .... BUT can you do it if the lead out before you start to sprint is already at 33mph .... quite often in Zwift by the time the sprint starts I am spent

markhewitt1978

fat daddy wrote:

the KOM is 9.88 for the one on the classic (the mall forward) ..... I was in the dZi group ride when that was hit by Carl 2 days ago ... I only managed a 10.11 .. and then missed the last 3 laps, because I totally killed my legs and could keep up with the group any more

I was on London yesterday morning and someone was calling out a sub 10 for the sprint, I don't remember the name that was on there.

errrrr .. what was the point of this post ...... oh yeah, you need to sprint for more than 5 seconds.

and likewise, hitting 1000w is dopable for 5 seconds .... BUT can you do it if the lead out before you start to sprint is 33mph .... quite often in Zwift by the time the sprint starts I am spent

Yeah that's the point you need to be already sprinting for 5 seconds before that. I spend more time fussing with my gears, so most of the time I just ride through at a normal pace.

shmooster

Great stuff thanks guys. I'm not expecting to use the turbo to simulate the Fred (maybe if I got my wife to throw buckets of water at me and ring a cowbell).

I'm sadly not 100KG of muscle and my main aims of using Zwift are to lose weight and to increase endurance so it sounds like I'll be good to go with the TacX flow T2240 from Halfords (although part of me is very tempted by the TacX Flux)

Many thanks all,

Cheers

fenix

Zwifting won't really help you with your weight. You need to diet. Try the 5-2 - dead easy to do and you will lose weight.

What you burn off in an hour of cycling you could eat in 5 mins...

fenix

Zwifting won't really help you with your weight. You need to diet. Try the 5-2 - dead easy to do and you will lose weight.

What you burn off in an hour of cycling you could eat in 5 mins...

markhewitt1978

Very true, of course the real answer is that you need to do both.

The Flow is going to be good to get the training miles in, but the Flux looks nice it's going to be a very good product for simulating riding.

shmooster

I find doing training miles (virtual or physical) helps to keep me motivated with diet, that and the thought of a 30% hill after 100 miles.

davidof

markhewitt1978 wrote:

shmooster wrote:

So, does the T2240 sound reasonable for me? More powerful models are a lot more expensive...

The Tacx Flow Smart to give it a more understandable name! Yes I think it will be fine. However it isn't the maximum wattage you really want to be looking at here, it's the slope, since you're training for the Whitton, you want it to be able to simulate a high slope angle, and the Flow only does to 6%.

If you want to simulate Whitton style climbs then unfortunately you're looking at something like the Bushido or Neo! Which can go up to 15 & 25%.

If you can put out more than 500 watts Mark then you should be signing for Sky for next year's TDF.

markhewitt1978

haha, I managed it about once for a few seconds, although there were plenty when the Tacx Flux came out who reacted with horror to the incorrect rumour that it was limited to 1,000W saying it would make it impossible for them to sprint, so I think there's plenty who can. (The limit is actually 1500W)

davidof

markhewitt1978 wrote:

haha, I managed it about once for a few seconds, although there were plenty when the Tacx Flux came out who reacted with horror to the incorrect rumour that it was limited to 1,000W saying it would make it impossible for them to sprint, so I think there's plenty who can. (The limit is actually 1500W)

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the issue with some of the computer controlled trainers (from Tacx) is they cannot produce the resistance (wattage) at low speed hence the "slope" limitation.

But if a user wants to simulate 300 watts for an hour (say doing the "Alpe") then they can do that using their gears - with the usual caveats that it won't be the same as their climbing gear, the bike won't be in the same position etc.

markhewitt1978

davidof wrote:

But if a user wants to simulate 300 watts for an hour (say doing the "Alpe") then they can do that using their gears - with the usual caveats that it won't be the same as their climbing gear, the bike won't be in the same position etc.

To be fair, the vast majority - perhaps all - trainers on the market today are going to be able to simulate an Alp pretty decently, at least up to the 6% of the Tacx Flow anyway, which is about what an Alp does - of course there are places where it'll ramp above 6% and that's where your into virtual speed (you feel the same resistance but your in character slows down), and yes many trainers have difficulty providing a realistic slope resistance at a lower speed, so you have to look at the power curves which makes it more complicated than the headline slope number.