How far can you lean your bike over in a bend?
Comments
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I'm going to come right out and say what everyone else is alluding to. Sorry, but this video is just a cycling equivalent of the Zoella rip-offs that every third teenage girl seem to be making at the moment. The signal to noise ratio of the Internet is plummeting, largely because people will post almost anything in the hope that someone watches it.
Go away and research something that:
1. Isn't blindingly obvious
2. Cyclists actually want to know
I mean proper research that takes place in the real world, not using Google. When you've done that, come back and make a video presenting your findings.
If you want some inspiration, look at the Specialized "Win Tunnel" videos. They've actually done some original research...Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
Well, I found it interesting. Especially the formula and what it says about the relative importance of the factors affecting ground clearance.
You can’t please everyone.0 -
Back in the day, we were set this as an A-level physics question. I struggled with it then and wouldn't know where to start now.0
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RockmonkeySC wrote:Accidentally clicked on this forum by mistake. I'll shuffle off back to the mountain bike forum but I'll leave you with this.
That's how far you can lean a bike.
Well, arguably he's upright, just on a different plane
My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
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Facebook? No. Just say no.0 -
Different plane indeed. I shudder a bit thinking of the margin of error with that right hand...bendertherobot wrote:RockmonkeySC wrote:Accidentally clicked on this forum by mistake. I'll shuffle off back to the mountain bike forum but I'll leave you with this.
That's how far you can lean a bike.
Well, arguably he's upright, just on a different plane0 -
bompington wrote:
Different plane indeed. I shudder a bit thinking of the margin of error with that right hand - one touch and the faceplant would be something else.bendertherobot wrote:RockmonkeySC wrote:Accidentally clicked on this forum by mistake. I'll shuffle off back to the mountain bike forum but I'll leave you with this.
That's how far you can lean a bike.
Well, arguably he's upright, just on a different plane0 -
TGOTB wrote:I'm going to come right out and say what everyone else is alluding to. Sorry, but this video is just a cycling equivalent of the Zoella rip-offs that every third teenage girl seem to be making at the moment. The signal to noise ratio of the Internet is plummeting, largely because people will post almost anything in the hope that someone watches it.
Go away and research something that:
1. Isn't blindingly obvious
2. Cyclists actually want to know
I mean proper research that takes place in the real world, not using Google. When you've done that, come back and make a video presenting your findings.
If you want some inspiration, look at the Specialized "Win Tunnel" videos. They've actually done some original research...
Acerbic critiques are also part of the internet, but you get used to them....
Firstly, and again, that you think the vid is sh*t is fine by me, you never have to watch it again. But why blindingly obvious?
Example ; a video on knitting socks, telling me how many stitches I need. I think the vid is crap and useless to me, but it's not blindingly obvious, as I have no idea how many stitches I would need.....
What cyclists want to know varies from one to the other. Some couldn't give a monkey's about getting aero, some want to be able to extract the last watt from their performance, etc. etc.
I was curious to know at what angle my bike touched down, so I worked it out. I didn't need Google for that. I've had a fair bit of positive feedback both public and private so at least a few find it interesting. I deal with the public on almost a daily basis so I am painfully aware that you can't please all the people all the time.
I've seen the WinTunnel videos, and if you take as gospel everything they tell you, then you'll be knocking 10 minutes off your 40km TT time in no time (as long as you buy Specialized stuff that is).0 -
Fair enough. Two of the other responses to my post demonstrate that you do have a following, my bad.
For the fans out there - I'm curious, what do you actually do with this information? How do you use it to improve your riding? Do you come out of a corner having somehow measured your angle of lean and say, "oh, wasn't trying hard enough, I could have leant the bike over another 4 degrees"?
How do you measure your angle of lean in the real world anyway? Do you have someone taking photos? I know the guys posting inclinometer pictures were having a laugh, but you do know that an inclinometer that's not gyrospically stabilised won't work anyway, right?
At least the WinTunnel videos give you information that you can actually use. For instance, knowing that leg shaving saves you ~3s per mile is useful, it helps you to make an educated decision as to whether it's worth doing. Hairy legs and consistently knocking out 55 minute 25s? Probably worth shaving. Club runs and sportives? Probably not.
As for off-camber corners, in the real world a small amount of off-camber can make a huge difference. Just ask Spartacus...Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
TGOTB wrote:
How do you measure your angle of lean in the real world anyway?
Surely it's simply
1) set your bike up with the correct tyre pressure (having a flat tyre will change the angle)
2) put the pedal in the 6 oclock position
3) lean it over until the pedal hits the deck
4) look at it - take a measurement if you want - that's how far you can lean your bike before getting pedal strike
Most of us (ie the non-racers) will be thinking we're pushing it when we lean the bike over a few degrees - and won't be spinning the cranks then either ...0 -
That's not what I mean. It's trivial how to determine how far you *can* lean your bike without striking the pedal. But how do you determine how far you actually *are* leaning your bike, when you go round a real corner?Slowbike wrote:TGOTB wrote:
How do you measure your angle of lean in the real world anyway?
Surely it's simply
1) set your bike up with the correct tyre pressure (having a flat tyre will change the angle)
2) put the pedal in the 6 oclock position
3) lean it over until the pedal hits the deck
4) look at it - take a measurement if you want - that's how far you can lean your bike before getting pedal strike
Most of us (ie the non-racers) will be thinking we're pushing it when we lean the bike over a few degrees - and won't be spinning the cranks then either ...
Say you determine you maximum angle of lean to be 30 degrees, for the sake of argument. What do you do with that information? Do you know what 30 degrees feels like? When you corner as hard as you dare, are you leaning the bike 10 degrees? 20? 30? If you can't measure how far you *are* leaning, what's the point in knowing how far you *can* lean?
Edit: More simply, for those of you who think this information is useful, how are you actually using it?Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
TGOTB wrote:Edit: More simply, for those of you who think this information is useful, how are you actually using it?
I don't use it ....... but the next time it comes down to buying anew bike and all things are equal and I cant decide which one to buy ... I'll measure the lean angle and get the one I can lean over the most
Although does having a higher bottom bracket give any negatives like a higher centre of gravity, so more lean but less overall grip ?0 -
TGOTB wrote:
That's not what I mean. It's trivial how to determine how far you *can* lean your bike without striking the pedal. But how do you determine how far you actually *are* leaning your bike, when you go round a real corner?Slowbike wrote:TGOTB wrote:
How do you measure your angle of lean in the real world anyway?
Surely it's simply
1) set your bike up with the correct tyre pressure (having a flat tyre will change the angle)
2) put the pedal in the 6 oclock position
3) lean it over until the pedal hits the deck
4) look at it - take a measurement if you want - that's how far you can lean your bike before getting pedal strike
Most of us (ie the non-racers) will be thinking we're pushing it when we lean the bike over a few degrees - and won't be spinning the cranks then either ...
Say you determine you maximum angle of lean to be 30 degrees, for the sake of argument. What do you do with that information? Do you know what 30 degrees feels like? When you corner as hard as you dare, are you leaning the bike 10 degrees? 20? 30? If you can't measure how far you *are* leaning, what's the point in knowing how far you *can* lean?
Edit: More simply, for those of you who think this information is useful, how are you actually using it?
Firstly, to be sure we're all clear, this is NOT about absolute corner lean angle (pedal at 12 o'clock) as that is a much more complicated subject that requires all sorts of equipment.
What this subject is looking at is somewhat simpler - pedal strike angle. What's it worth to know? It ain't gonna change your life, that's for sure, but such little nuggets of cycling trivia interest me. Given that some will spend hours debating the merits of a 1W Crr gain in one tyre over another, such trivia is not new.....
It may help those that fear pedalling at all in corners - this shows that you can be leant relatively far over before a pedal strike.
It may also help those looking to choose a new bike if they are concerned about pedal strikes. By putting in the 4 dimensions, the strike angle pops out. Some bikes will be better than others.
But yes, that's not the only element to consider. A higher BB will give better clearance, but MAY affect CofG or handling.
In any case, no one is being forced to watch at gunpoint......0 -
Raising the BB does impact handling; if it didn't, all bikes would have high bottom brackets. Simplifying slightly, and depending on fork trail, bikes with higher BBs can be harder to steer round corners. Not an issue for track bikes, which don't really need to go round corners, but definitely an issue in crit and particularly CX bikes, where frame designers have clearly different views of the optimum tradeoff. This is one reason a pure CX race bike will tend to handle differently to a so-called gravel bike.
OP - why not research some of the other factors affecting BB height, and then put together a video discussing the different factors, and how they trade off against each other? That might be more useful to people researching a new purchase, rather than the rather one-sided implication that higher is better...Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
TGOTB wrote:That might be more useful to people researching a new purchase, rather than the rather one-sided implication that higher is better...
I never said higher was better.0 -
The formula you showed does though!0
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Bullet1 wrote:The formula you showed does though!
The formula shows that higher BB = more ground clearance. Whether that is 'better' or not is up to you.
Shorter cranks and narrower pedals also help, but no one's saying you have to change these.
It's like saying a small car is 'better'. Well yeah, it's better for ease of parking and fuel economy, but it's not better for space or motorways.0 -
I've realised that Bernie has missed a trick here: videos are all very well but, as many have pointed out here, the crucial flaw is that no matter how careful your calculations, it is impossible to calculate exactly how far you are leaning over in the bend.
Not any more. BompThatBend™ are proud to present the ultimate cornering pedal set. Starting at just £100* for the basic SPD model and going up to a mere £2000* for the Nanogram Zero, BompThatBend™ pedals not only have the outside edge diagonally machined away, giving you those precious few degrees of extra lean (and a few grams off for weight weenies!), but they actually have a built-in mechanism to warn you when you're leaning too far.
That's right, thanks to patented Bomp'n'Grind technology, these pedals give you all the feedback you need on those tight corners. Realising that the user interface on modern bikes is getting more and more complex, there are no LED or LCD displays, or even batteries. Instead, BompThatBend™ pedals have two built-in warning mechanisms: a visual warning in the form of a stream of sparks, and - a first in the cycling world - we actually have haptic feedback! That's right, if you lean too far, the BompThatBend™ pedal will send a tactile signal through the bike frame to warn you.
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*per pedal0 -
bernithebiker wrote:The formula shows that higher BB = more ground clearance.
You developed a formula to prove the bleedin obvious?
Next week: definitive proof that 32s are wider than 23s.0 -
I was thinking about this on the way in (not too hard - the thinking that is - I assure you)
What may be more useful is know what speed and radius of bend is required to achieve your maximum lean angle (MLA) - as that is far easier to visualise on the road ...0 -
Imposter wrote:bernithebiker wrote:The formula shows that higher BB = more ground clearance.
You developed a formula to prove the bleedin obvious?
Next week: definitive proof that 32s are wider than 23s.
I would have hoped for a slightly more intelligent comment from you Imposter....
It's just a formula that uses 4 dimensions from your bike to calculate pedal strike angle.
Make of it what you will, if unimpressed feel free to move on to more important things like world peace, the benefits of 25mm tyre over 23mm, etc. etc.0 -
Imposter wrote:bernithebiker wrote:The formula shows that higher BB = more ground clearance.
You developed a formula to prove the bleedin obvious?
Next week: definitive proof that 32s are wider than 23s.
Not necessarily, depends on the rim width Come on, I need to see a video and clever mathematical equations to prove it!!! WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
Find me on Strava0 -
bernithebiker wrote:I would have hoped for a slightly more intelligent comment from you Imposter....
I thought you knew me better than that Seriously though, I'm all for physics n stuff, but it needs to prove something useful.drlodge wrote:Imposter wrote:bernithebiker wrote:The formula shows that higher BB = more ground clearance.
You developed a formula to prove the bleedin obvious?
Next week: definitive proof that 32s are wider than 23s.
Not necessarily, depends on the rim width Come on, I need to see a video and clever mathematical equations to prove it!!!
Stop it 0 -
I used to hit the pedal on the floor quite often when I was younger, but then I was using old-fashioned quill pedals and toe clips, I've never done it with clipless pedals. Plus I was probably a bit braver (or stupid)0
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Genius, exactly the sort of innovation that drives the cycling market forward.bompington wrote:Instead, BompThatBend™ pedals have two built-in warning mechanisms: a visual warning in the form of a stream of sparks, and - a first in the cycling world - we actually have haptic feedback!
Can I request an enhancement? Haptic feedback's all very well, but do you reckon you could build in some audio feedback too? Not sure what sound would work best; any form of beep or tune is going to be easily confused with mobile phones. Maybe a scraping sound of some sort?Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
This is genius, exactly the sort of input we could do with here at Bomp Towers. Have you considered becoming a partner? Just send me your bank details, wire a deposit of £50,000 to me straight away, and you're in.TGOTB wrote:
Genius, exactly the sort of innovation that drives the cycling market forward.bompington wrote:Instead, BompThatBend™ pedals have two built-in warning mechanisms: a visual warning in the form of a stream of sparks, and - a first in the cycling world - we actually have haptic feedback!
Can I request an enhancement? Haptic feedback's all very well, but do you reckon you could build in some audio feedback too? Not sure what sound would work best; any form of beep or tune is going to be easily confused with mobile phones. Maybe a scraping sound of some sort?0 -
Awesome, I'm in! Ok for me to send the money via Western Union? I've heard they're very good; highly recommended by a kind gentleman in Nigeria who's sorting out an inheritance issue for me.bompington wrote:This is genius, exactly the sort of input we could do with here at Bomp Towers. Have you considered becoming a partner? Just send me your bank details, wire a deposit of £50,000 to me straight away, and you're in.Pannier, 120rpm.0
