Cannondale CAAD 10 derailleur and BB30 problems
Got my Cannondale CAAD 10 2015 model with11 speed Shimano 5800 105 double spec last summer. Thought I’d post my 1 year/ 600 mile review.
First of all the positives; the frame is great, it handles well, it’s light and has just the right degree of flex. Brakes, wheels and rear mech are all OK, the Schwalbe Lugano tyres are passable but I wouldn’t buy them again.
The negatives; from day one, out of the box the bike had chain rub on the front derailleur, this wouldn’t go away with routine adjustments. I called the UK mail-order dealer who supplied it for help and was told in a patronising manner that I didn’t understand how to use the trim function. I should have returned the bike there and then but I assumed that Cannondale knew what they were doing and that it would be a simple fix and so I started to investigate further.
I checked the alignment and height of the front mech and lubed the cable but it all seemed OK. More detailed Investigations revealed two related issues; 1.The first click up from small ring was extremely stiff, so much so I felt the small parts in the shifter were at risk and all it did was stretch the cable and flex the derailleur rather that move it to the first trim position, 2.The total pull from the 5800 shifter was not enough to move the cage laterally so that it would clear the chain on both highest and lowest gear combinations. Blogs say that the tolerances in the 5800 set up are tight but mine just didn’t work. I tried both settings on the derailleur arm adjuster pin to no avail. The stiffness was caused by the angle at which the cable came up from below the BB and exited the hole between the chain stays way over to the right. The cable ran almost in line with the centre-line of the derailleur lever and thus great effort was required to move it to the first position, other positions became easier as the lever-cable angle increased. My first idea was to adjust the cable guide under the bottom bracket to shift the cable to the left but Cannondale prevent you from doing this by using a press fit non-adjustable guide. I found slipping a 1cm length of petrol tube over the end of the cable guide between the chain stays helped centre it but it was only a partially effective fix. Re-routing the cable over the top of the pinch bolt increased the angle and reduced the stiffness but it also increased the length of the lever which in turn reduced the amount of lateral movement and so worsened the lateral shift problem.
The next problem I found was the FSA Gossamer BB30 chainset (fitted because Shimano don’t do a 105 BB30 chainset), this had too much flex, the big ring moving out laterally by around 2mm on the right pedal down-stroke, this contributed to the chain clearance problem.
I eventually gave up on the Shimano braze-on 5800 front mech and Shimano chain and junked them both. I experimented with an old Campagnolo Chorus 11 speed front mech (short lever 2014 model) it seemed to have more lateral movement from the 5800 shifter pull and almost worked, routing the cable under the fixing bolt to shorten the lever improved the range of movement and hey I’d got a system with no chain rub, furthermore it was easy to shift and both ring trim functions worked for the first time. I also had to add a new KMC chain where the connector can be reused to facilitate the many derailleur changes.
A couple of hundred miles trouble free riding followed but then at 600 miles the BB30 bottom bracket packed up (a well known issue). So given the flex issues in the FSA chainset, the cost of FSA rings when it comes to replacement and the unreliability of the BB30, I junked the BB30 set up and FSA chainset and opted for a Rotor BB30 to Shimano bottom bracket converter instead with a stiffer Shimano 105 chainset. One day I might try the 5800 mech again with the Shimano chainset but that's maybe a winter job. Goodbye Cannondale warranty for what it was worth.
In summary, I’ve spent around £200 and many hours of work sorting out basic frame and groupset compatability issues which I feel should have been obvious to Cannondale and their dealers. Was I wrong to expected a greater degree of reliability and dealer support from a £1000 big name bike? On the positive side I’ve now got a bike that is a pleasure to ride.
First of all the positives; the frame is great, it handles well, it’s light and has just the right degree of flex. Brakes, wheels and rear mech are all OK, the Schwalbe Lugano tyres are passable but I wouldn’t buy them again.
The negatives; from day one, out of the box the bike had chain rub on the front derailleur, this wouldn’t go away with routine adjustments. I called the UK mail-order dealer who supplied it for help and was told in a patronising manner that I didn’t understand how to use the trim function. I should have returned the bike there and then but I assumed that Cannondale knew what they were doing and that it would be a simple fix and so I started to investigate further.
I checked the alignment and height of the front mech and lubed the cable but it all seemed OK. More detailed Investigations revealed two related issues; 1.The first click up from small ring was extremely stiff, so much so I felt the small parts in the shifter were at risk and all it did was stretch the cable and flex the derailleur rather that move it to the first trim position, 2.The total pull from the 5800 shifter was not enough to move the cage laterally so that it would clear the chain on both highest and lowest gear combinations. Blogs say that the tolerances in the 5800 set up are tight but mine just didn’t work. I tried both settings on the derailleur arm adjuster pin to no avail. The stiffness was caused by the angle at which the cable came up from below the BB and exited the hole between the chain stays way over to the right. The cable ran almost in line with the centre-line of the derailleur lever and thus great effort was required to move it to the first position, other positions became easier as the lever-cable angle increased. My first idea was to adjust the cable guide under the bottom bracket to shift the cable to the left but Cannondale prevent you from doing this by using a press fit non-adjustable guide. I found slipping a 1cm length of petrol tube over the end of the cable guide between the chain stays helped centre it but it was only a partially effective fix. Re-routing the cable over the top of the pinch bolt increased the angle and reduced the stiffness but it also increased the length of the lever which in turn reduced the amount of lateral movement and so worsened the lateral shift problem.
The next problem I found was the FSA Gossamer BB30 chainset (fitted because Shimano don’t do a 105 BB30 chainset), this had too much flex, the big ring moving out laterally by around 2mm on the right pedal down-stroke, this contributed to the chain clearance problem.
I eventually gave up on the Shimano braze-on 5800 front mech and Shimano chain and junked them both. I experimented with an old Campagnolo Chorus 11 speed front mech (short lever 2014 model) it seemed to have more lateral movement from the 5800 shifter pull and almost worked, routing the cable under the fixing bolt to shorten the lever improved the range of movement and hey I’d got a system with no chain rub, furthermore it was easy to shift and both ring trim functions worked for the first time. I also had to add a new KMC chain where the connector can be reused to facilitate the many derailleur changes.
A couple of hundred miles trouble free riding followed but then at 600 miles the BB30 bottom bracket packed up (a well known issue). So given the flex issues in the FSA chainset, the cost of FSA rings when it comes to replacement and the unreliability of the BB30, I junked the BB30 set up and FSA chainset and opted for a Rotor BB30 to Shimano bottom bracket converter instead with a stiffer Shimano 105 chainset. One day I might try the 5800 mech again with the Shimano chainset but that's maybe a winter job. Goodbye Cannondale warranty for what it was worth.
In summary, I’ve spent around £200 and many hours of work sorting out basic frame and groupset compatability issues which I feel should have been obvious to Cannondale and their dealers. Was I wrong to expected a greater degree of reliability and dealer support from a £1000 big name bike? On the positive side I’ve now got a bike that is a pleasure to ride.
0
Comments
-
Sounds to me the main issue was the limit screws not adjusted enough on the front Dérailleur.
also, you will more often than not get a slight chain rub on the outer gears if you are cross chaining ie big to big small to small - The gears are not designed to be used this way (SRAM X11 do but not Shimano)
As for the BB30 - They are like this on nearly all bikes fitted with them not just. Its a sore topic for many between threaded vs pressfit0 -
I have this exact same bike. Love everything about it. Groupset is functionally superb, as is the BB. At £1000 these are stupidly good value bikes for the money. The frame is sublime.
PS 600 miles in a year - really ? or is there a nought missing from the right and a one from the left ? Joining a forum just to post a whinging essay about the dealers (perceived) condescension is really not a good look. For what it's worth, his point about learning how to use the trim function would have saved you £200 and all the heath-robinson botches. :oops:0 -
Don't give up with the 5800. It works perfectly on thousands of bikes so will work for you too. Follow this video and forget all the other complicated cr*p involving cable alignment tools.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlbenKUx9JM0 -
1 post, 1 whine. Love it.Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
The 5800 FD has a nack to how its set up. And can give huge headaches if done incorrectly.
How were you setting the FD up ? in what sequence ?
Were you doing the low limit screw trick to get the correct tension of the cable before clamping? That is a vital step otherwise you will get issues exactly like you describe like a stiff operation and lack of FD movement. The cable tension needs to be much higher than any previous FD that you have used. You will not get that high tension by hand so you need to do the low limit screw trick. It is a necessary step that can be easily overlooked even if you do read the Shimano manual (and lets face it who does ?) as in the manual the instructions are still not very clear.
As you say the campy FD seemed to work better. It suggest that the problem was not the cable guide or even the shifter, it is how the 5800 FD was initially being set up. The cable angle was probably not the issue because thats exactly why there are two cable tab position options on the FD. One or the other positions should work and as you say you tried both. If many others have the same bike and with the exact same cable bb guide and routing and it works fine for them. What makes your bike any different ? So it sounds like operator error to be fair.
Are you sure the chainring bolts were tight on the fsa crank ? and the self extracting bolt was done up to the correct torque ? i have a 5 arm gossamer chainset and it feels pretty stiff. I've never noticed any flex from it (i weigh 73kg). If the crank spider is warped or the ring is bent then you should still warranty it.
As for the BB30 bearings. Some last ages and some die prematurely. In my experience (i've also bought a new caad10) the stock bearings have performed the worst. I reckon Cannondale buy the cheapest non stainless bearings they can to save money.
The good part of bb30 is the bearings can replaced individually. Most likely you only needed to replace a single side as they tend not to both fail simultaneously. Stainless steel bearings can found cheap on ebay at around £1.20 each. a homemade drift and press tool is also simple and cheap to make.
So cheaper fix options were available to you.0 -
Sorry, but you werent flexing the chainset. As much as you probably feel great writing that to a bunch of strangers that dont care anyway.0
-
Some people just do not deserve to be CAAD owners.
The whole post reeks of uneducated arrogance where it comes to bikes - as ever user error disguised as a feeble attempt to review a superb bike that does not cost a fortune unless you want it to.
We have all made workshop cock ups mate... just sort it and keep stumm.0 -
JGSI wrote:Some people just do not deserve to be CAAD owners.
Wha? Its just a bike frame. The rest of it is no more Cannondale than any other bike. Same mechs , chains, maybe the chainset is hollowgram but thats about it, It should be no more difficult to set up and maintain than any other bike.0
