What you want from a shop
Comments
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The one thing I want from a shop above all else is to be treated like a customer rather than an annoyance. Everything else is secondary to me. I'd rather travel 10 miles for decent customer service than walk to the bottom of my road to be huffed and grunted at0
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Pretty amazing service, as the vast majority of road bikes are over £1,000 these days, so most of the servicing they do must be free. Where is this LBS?ronnierocket wrote:Why I continue to use my local bike shop is for the following reasons.
1. Free servicing for life (they give this for bikes over a certain value approx. £1000)0 -
ForumNewbie wrote:
Pretty amazing service, as the vast majority of road bikes are over £1,000 these days, so most of the servicing they do must be free. Where is this LBS?ronnierocket wrote:Why I continue to use my local bike shop is for the following reasons.
1. Free servicing for life (they give this for bikes over a certain value approx. £1000)
If true, I assume its only the labour that is free but they make some of the money back on parts & sundries.0 -
I have run into a shop (University cycles in Cambridge) which seemed to do most servicing for minimal charges and parts at what couldn't be much more than cost. The catch - only did any work on bikes brought from the shop. I have recommended them several times to other people as the service is good, but not convinced it would work most places as the shop mostly sold town bicycles.0
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As a more commercial word of advice. Customer service is a given and you've clearly identified this as important. You've just got to go and execute now.
However, nuts and bolts retail stuff. You need to have a good balance of vision and responsiveness. You need to know what you want the shop to be as you can't be all things to all people and this does mean some hard decisions. Focus your cash on things you can do well, don't dabble in anything and everything. Conversely, if your customer base consistently identify the same gap in your offering, listen to what they're telling you! You might be missing a trick. They won't say directly that you're missing something. But when you get the same enquiries consistently, they're telling you something. It may even be that a service or product you do offer isn't as obviously available to your customers as you think it is.
Learn about stock management. Don't tie up all your cash in old stock. Exit weak stock quickly. If something doesn't sell, try everything you can to move it at a profit and if it still doesn't sell, forget any emotional attachment and get rid at any return.
Learn to walk the store. Clear your head and enter the store with the mind of a customer, where are the staff, how does the shop look, does it look welcoming, is it obvious that you sell brand x or product b? Do you want customers to serve themselves or do you want everybody to need serving? How do you achieve this. Do you have test products. Are you prepared for things to be unpacked so people can get tactile, have you factored in the cost?
Retail is easy if you continually balance a clear vision and responsiveness. Too visionary and you may be out of touch with reality but too responsive and you can waste time and money chasing sales that simply aren't there.0 -
Alex99 wrote:mac1985 wrote:I wasn't too sure where to put this, so apologies if i have placed it in the wrong forum
I was wondering what peoples views and opinions were so far as what you want from your local bike store, as in whats important, parking etc, what you want to see in store, not so much specific brands but more products, variety, price points, would you want a cafe area of some sort, indoor bike storage while you browse etc?
any input would be greatly appreciated
thanks in advance
I don't use either of my two local bike shops, ever. Reasons:
- One of them is staffed by the most insulting compulsive bullsh*t merchants I have ever come across (will tell you something is carbon fibre, even though it is welded!)
- When I've used one of them for some mechanical servicing, they've replaced parts without asking me saying that they are worn, but the old part is now not around any more?!?
- the other one, high cost, poor range and unwillingness to order things in (shoes, clothes) to try for size.
So, any shop that fixes these problems might have a chance of my hard earned £££. My last major purchase from a physical bike shop was for shoes. It wasn't a local and I travelled there specifically because the carried a wide range and I bought them there and then paying a little over the online prices.
I've had a similar experience with my easiest accessed bike shop in belfast. They seem to treat any maintaince as a sales opportunity. Once had them try and sell me a £70 wheel for the hybrid and £20 to fit it as a spoke was loose on it. Of course my usual local bike shop which is about an hour away but near my hometown fixed the wheel for much much less than the £80 work it would take to true the damaged wheel quoted in belfast.
I also took my road bike in recently as it wasn't moving into the 28 sprocket and I had tried sorting it myself and wasn't getting anywhere. took it to the place i said i ll never go again as its on the way to work and thought they d get it done quickly for weekend. same guy again looked at it for 2 seconds said need a new rear derailleur and it would be £100 for it to be fitted and it wouldn't be ready for near a week. Went else where the rear hanger was slightly bent and was charged £5 for getting this fixed. problem solved.
Some shops only do sales and see maintainance as just a way to sell new parts0 -
apreading wrote:ForumNewbie wrote:
Pretty amazing service, as the vast majority of road bikes are over £1,000 these days, so most of the servicing they do must be free. Where is this LBS?ronnierocket wrote:Why I continue to use my local bike shop is for the following reasons.
1. Free servicing for life (they give this for bikes over a certain value approx. £1000)
If true, I assume its only the labour that is free but they make some of the money back on parts & sundries.
It's definitely true. You don't always need parts and labour though, if you are not big on doing stuff yourself like me or dont trues yourself it's a godsend for minor things. I normally buy stuff when I am in, I have recommended many people to the shop. It's nice to have somewhere to go where you trust the people.
http://www.billybilslandcycles.co.uk/servicing0 -
OK - so you have to agree to buy all new parts from them to keep qualifying...
So basically any parts you buy from them they will fit for free, plus they will adjust brakes & gears if necessary. Its not clear whether just the basic service is free or the standard/full works. I wonder if things like stripping down and greasing bearings is included? Or wheel truing?
Dont get me wrong, its a good thing, but I dont think it is quite as good as it might seem from the headline. They have obviously worked out that they want to sell the parts (presumably at full RRP) rather than charge for fitting them. Good on them, its certainly good PR.0 -
I've had good service from my LBS and have bought 3 bikes from them in the past 5 years, also spent a fair amount on clothes and parts. I usually only buy parts from them in an "emergency" as usually the online shops are cheaper. The shop used to have fairly large premise on 2 floors and I did enjoy just going in there for browse around and a chat, usually resulting in a purchase of some sort, even worse if my wife came in with me...she has spent a fortune on clothes in there, mostly just on impulse. About a year ago the shop moved to a location closer to the town centre and has a much smaller and cramped space so I'm much less inclined to go in there for a browse as there is much less stock on display. I'm not sure if the move has benefitted their business, I can only say that I'm spending less money in there now.0
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Courtesy bikes. That would make it easier for people to drop the bike off, go to work then pick it up on the way home.
I'm not really a fan of bike shops though. They can't compete with online prices, and the mechanics always end up disappointing. I'm pretty much at the point where I can do most jobs better myself than any of the bike shops I've used, just need to crack wheel-building!0 -
BigMat wrote:Courtesy bikes. That would make it easier for people to drop the bike off, go to work then pick it up on the way home.
I'm not really a fan of bike shops though. They can't compete with online prices, and the mechanics always end up disappointing. I'm pretty much at the point where I can do most jobs better myself than any of the bike shops I've used, just need to crack wheel-building!
Ooo, now that would be good. Test ride a new bike while they are carrying out work on yours, so you are not taken off the road, dont have to drive to/from the shop AND they get the chance to try and tempt you to buy that new bike if you like it - EVERYONE'S A WINNER RODNEY...!!!
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Same as above; bike shops don't really do anything useful for me. We have a pretty good range of shops in my area but I can be pretty certain that they won't have anything I actually need. Couple of examples:
- Went out looking for a length of hydraulic brake hose and a BB386Evo BB tool. Trawled around 8 shops; none had either. They didn't even have the tool in their workshop. Several offered to order them in for me, but as others have pointed out I can do this myself.
- Phoned around looking for someone to remove a set of Stronglight square taper cranks. No-one had the right tool (it's a larger thread than the standard), and most didn't even know it existed. Again, I ordered the tool online with no probs.
Shops are probably fine for chains, cables etc, but because I know I'm going to need those I tend to keep a few "in stock".
None of this is the shops' fault. Unlike 30 years ago there's a vast plethora of different equipment and standards; it makes no commercial sense to stock a BB386Evo tool, just for the one customer a year who *might* come looking for it. When I was a kid, all bikes used variations of the same kit, and it was relatively easy for a shop to stock anything you might need. Some stores can use an online presence to justify holding a wide range of stock (Spa Cycles comes to mind) but not everyone can do this.
Other than servicing, and selling bikes/clothing to people who don't want to buy online, it's hard to see what else can be done, it only makes sense to hold stock that turns over quickly. I read somewhere that a Top Shop store will expect to turn over its entire stock in one week.
As far as I'm concerned, I literally have no need for bike shops. I'm struggling with a setup problem on a set of Parabox brakes, but there's no point in taking it to a bike shop because there's pretty much no chance they'll have a mechanic who's even seen a Parabox system before, let alone taken it to bits.
Sorry!Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
apreading wrote:OK - so you have to agree to buy all new parts from them to keep qualifying...
So basically any parts you buy from them they will fit for free, plus they will adjust brakes & gears if necessary. Its not clear whether just the basic service is free or the standard/full works. I wonder if things like stripping down and greasing bearings is included? Or wheel truing?
Dont get me wrong, its a good thing, but I dont think it is quite as good as it might seem from the headline. They have obviously worked out that they want to sell the parts (presumably at full RRP) rather than charge for fitting them. Good on them, its certainly good PR.
I get a full service done every year, including stripping down bike etc... It works well for me, I can just rock up with my bike when I have a problem and get it fixed as soon as. I am not overly demanding as I ride mostly on the turbo during the week but when speed was needed it was always delivered. The first time I borrowed a bike box, my bike was in for a service before it and they kindly packed it for me. If you value time/lack of faith in your own bike fixing skills over money then it works out pretty well.0 -
The website says the lifetime free servicing is for kids bikes and specialist high end road bikes so surely that doesn't mean every road bike over £1,000, as looking at their site the cheapest carbon road bikes are £999 and most expensive £7,499.ronnierocket wrote:apreading wrote:OK - so you have to agree to buy all new parts from them to keep qualifying...
So basically any parts you buy from them they will fit for free, plus they will adjust brakes & gears if necessary. Its not clear whether just the basic service is free or the standard/full works. I wonder if things like stripping down and greasing bearings is included? Or wheel truing?
Dont get me wrong, its a good thing, but I dont think it is quite as good as it might seem from the headline. They have obviously worked out that they want to sell the parts (presumably at full RRP) rather than charge for fitting them. Good on them, its certainly good PR.
I get a full service done every year, including stripping down bike etc... It works well for me, I can just rock up with my bike when I have a problem and get it fixed as soon as. I am not overly demanding as I ride mostly on the turbo during the week but when speed was needed it was always delivered. The first time I borrowed a bike box, my bike was in for a service before it and they kindly packed it for me. If you value time/lack of faith in your own bike fixing skills over money then it works out pretty well.
I still think a year's free servicing is good for most bikes, but they will still make the money on selling components that will be cheaper online.0 -
I confess I havent read the whole thread so apologies if this has been covered but I'd say
*Some car parking
*Some bike parking
*parts genuinely in stock - as mentioned it's not good saying a shop can order it in by the end of the week when I can have it delivered to my door the next day
*I accept that it's impossible to have every bike in every option in every size but there should be the option to at least get a true reflection on the fit/geometry/ride quality of a model in a particular size. If I want to try a 52cm CX bike it's not good giving me a 54cm road bike.
*Quality mechanics, and enough of them so that I don't have to wait 2 weeks to get a wheel trued. I ll just take it elsewhere
*FOH staff that are friendly and knowledgeable but not so up their ass that they can't help my dear old mother with her basic questions - IMO this last one is the killer!We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Ah, I see you've visited Evans recently. Great post though.ddraver wrote:I confess I havent read the whole thread so apologies if this has been covered but I'd say
*Some car parking
*Some bike parking
*parts genuinely in stock - as mentioned it's not good saying a shop can order it in by the end of the week when I can have it delivered to my door the next day
*I accept that it's impossible to have every bike in every option in every size but there should be the option to at least get a true reflection on the fit/geometry/ride quality of a model in a particular size. If I want to try a 52cm CX bike it's not good giving me a 54cm road bike.
*Quality mechanics, and enough of them so that I don't have to wait 2 weeks to get a wheel trued. I ll just take it elsewhere
*FOH staff that are friendly and knowledgeable but not so up their ass that they can't help my dear old mother with her basic questions - IMO this last one is the killer!0 -
For me;
- I want a bike shop with strange discarded parts in buckets, just in case.
- Its reassuring if the staff cycle to work. Or look like they cycle to work.
- A staff uniform is off putting.
- I want a reassuring mix of basic stuff and high end carbon tubs hanging in the window. Anyone who can deal with both is a mechanic. If they can deal with one or the other, they are a salesman.
- I want something both honest and realistic when it comes to servicing. If you can't do it, or you can't do it now, I need to know. I'll ultimately thank you for it.
- Ideally don't let me know that you know I've made a fettling error. I already know.
- I don't want you to convey how clever you are, particularly when I'm right and know more than you do.
- I want the guy scheduling the servicing to be able to figure out when they can squeeze in a 5 minute job and please everyone!
- I don't want you to charge me to use a pump once I've replaced the tube, or mind if I put the old one in the bin.
Bike shops increasingly sell a service, not parts. They can't compete on price for the big stuff, but the service (and their experience) can be invaluable.0 -
I have vowed never to use Evans ever again after a ridiculous experience with them a few years back. Luckily bike shop were numerous enough in NL, and their websites good enough and cheap enough with next day delivery (in some cases as late as 8 or 10pm)that i can get by. Now im back i can go to Certini Cycles, IMO the best shop i ve ever been to.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Cornwall?ddraver wrote:I have vowed never to use Evans ever again after a ridiculous experience with them a few years back. Luckily bike shop were numerous enough in NL, and their websites good enough and cheap enough with next day delivery (in some cases as late as 8 or 10pm)that i can get by. Now im back i can go to Certini Cycles, IMO the best shop i ve ever been to.
Okay, I'll meet your Cornwall and raise you a Devon - Big Peaks in Ashburton have always piqued (sorry!) my interest. Good balance between mtb and road, and new/polished vs old get you back on the road. Love the array of steel wonders they have in the rafters. So many familiar parts that are now antiques :shock:
Up here, The Bicycle Works, Argyle Place. Not overtly in your face friendly - always helpful. That's why I'm never the only customer in there.0 -
There are a few decent shops around here. Funnily enough the one I used most was the small family owned shop that I always remember as being around when I was a kid. (I'm 28)
It doesnt have stock that interests me but I always used them to fix my cock ups as they could do it for a good price and by the end of that day.
Pedal Heaven on the other hand had a massive waiting time. Sorry, but who can wait over a week to get their bike back?! Also I dont like this gold, silver, bronze service thing. I just need a new BB mate. Ha.
Luckily I have finally picked it all up myself now, but there is always a chance I want a professional to go over it before a holiday or important race.
I never go into a bike shop unless I plan on buying something. Nothing worse than someone working there coming straight up to you.
Be visible, but let the customers come to you.0 -
Yeah of course, I didnt mean ignore me but invariably you will walk by someone working there to say an initial hello.0
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jdee84 wrote:Alex99 wrote:mac1985 wrote:I wasn't too sure where to put this, so apologies if i have placed it in the wrong forum
I was wondering what peoples views and opinions were so far as what you want from your local bike store, as in whats important, parking etc, what you want to see in store, not so much specific brands but more products, variety, price points, would you want a cafe area of some sort, indoor bike storage while you browse etc?
any input would be greatly appreciated
thanks in advance
I don't use either of my two local bike shops, ever. Reasons:
- One of them is staffed by the most insulting compulsive bullsh*t merchants I have ever come across (will tell you something is carbon fibre, even though it is welded!)
- When I've used one of them for some mechanical servicing, they've replaced parts without asking me saying that they are worn, but the old part is now not around any more?!?
- the other one, high cost, poor range and unwillingness to order things in (shoes, clothes) to try for size.
So, any shop that fixes these problems might have a chance of my hard earned £££. My last major purchase from a physical bike shop was for shoes. It wasn't a local and I travelled there specifically because the carried a wide range and I bought them there and then paying a little over the online prices.
I've had a similar experience with my easiest accessed bike shop in belfast. They seem to treat any maintaince as a sales opportunity. Once had them try and sell me a £70 wheel for the hybrid and £20 to fit it as a spoke was loose on it. Of course my usual local bike shop which is about an hour away but near my hometown fixed the wheel for much much less than the £80 work it would take to true the damaged wheel quoted in belfast.
I also took my road bike in recently as it wasn't moving into the 28 sprocket and I had tried sorting it myself and wasn't getting anywhere. took it to the place i said i ll never go again as its on the way to work and thought they d get it done quickly for weekend. same guy again looked at it for 2 seconds said need a new rear derailleur and it would be £100 for it to be fitted and it wouldn't be ready for near a week. Went else where the rear hanger was slightly bent and was charged £5 for getting this fixed. problem solved.
Some shops only do sales and see maintainance as just a way to sell new parts
Sounds like a similar experience. Unfortunately, there are lots of them out there and most folk won't pick them up for it.0 -
iPete wrote:Depends on the location, no? If your shop is on a popular Sunday route, be open and have a decent cafe with safe bike parking.
Location aside, a strong sock collection.
Agree on the sock collection.
Friendly knowledgeable staff who if possible love cycling as well. All very well being this trained and that trained. But having a passion for something usually helps hugely with overall knowledge.
Parking to be honest is a pretty important thing unless very central. Myself and all my bike mates quite often swing by when passing in cars. In fact I would say I go to bike shops more in a car than on a bike generally.
Ensure you look after your customer base. I appreciate that a lot of LBS can come no where near pricing on-line on some items however there is always going to be some wriggle room. I don't mind paying a bit extra for buying local but I am not going to pay double.
Having items in stock. Nice to have it there and then. But I am willing to wait a day or so if the price is right and it is something more exotic and I am not in a desperate hurry. However more commonly used items keep in stock!!!0 -
Is it just me that finds 'friendly, knowledgeable staff' in a well stocked shop thats open all hours with a team (as thats what you would need if you want fast turnaround) of fantastic mechanics........... and low prices (internet prices I guess people mean) a bit of an unrealistic demand?
A lot of people seem to want this amazingly set up and stocked shop for the one time they are willing/need to use it.
To say you are willing to pay a little bit more than online is not really valuing the thing you want to exist.
A lot of people would still begrudge that 'little bit' anyway.
They would not see it as value and probably then have to buy something online just to get over it!
I can see why bike shops do not want to pay sales staff a decent wage, but It must be v hard to get good bike mechanics at any wage.
People would pay for good repairs if you had a reputation for doing them.
So you would just keep hiring mechanics and upping prices until you hit a sweet spot that the market supported.0 -
apreading wrote:BigMat wrote:Courtesy bikes. That would make it easier for people to drop the bike off, go to work then pick it up on the way home.
I'm not really a fan of bike shops though. They can't compete with online prices, and the mechanics always end up disappointing. I'm pretty much at the point where I can do most jobs better myself than any of the bike shops I've used, just need to crack wheel-building!
Ooo, now that would be good. Test ride a new bike while they are carrying out work on yours, so you are not taken off the road, dont have to drive to/from the shop AND they get the chance to try and tempt you to buy that new bike if you like it - EVERYONE'S A WINNER RODNEY...!!!
Or how about you 'hire' the loan bike :roll:
Why should people who don't want one effectively pay for it?
Are you happy to sign to be responsible for/pay for anything that should untoward happen during your possession?
Or would you expect that to be covered?
There is this constant theme of wanting stuff for nothing.
Its the death of bike shops IMO.
If the loan bike is so useful, people should be willing to pay for the service to be set up and run.
A test ride service would (and should for at least 4 reasons!) be completely separate from a loan bike service wouldn't it?
Do you seriously think they are going to give a nice new expensive bike to every customer that wants one for the whole day, in the hope they are going to buy it?........ after they have just paid to have their old one fixed!
You get a sh1tty A1/A3 when you take your £50k Audi in for a service, not an A8
If you look like you are after a new car then you might get handed the keys to try a TT or an RS6, but usually you have to ask if you want to test drive something nicer than what you already have.
Last time ours went in we were asked for £18 as insurance to cover any damage, and then told horror stories about other customers when we said we would take our chances :roll:
They said some guy had to pay £500 for a stone chip to windscreen.
They can pick up and drop off for free next time if thats the attitude they are going to take :roll:0 -
Carbonator wrote:Is it just me that finds 'friendly, knowledgeable staff' in a well stocked shop thats open all hours with a team (as thats what you would need if you want fast turnaround) of fantastic mechanics........... and low prices (internet prices I guess people mean) a bit of an unrealistic demand?
A lot of people seem to want this amazingly set up and stocked shop for the one time they are willing/need to use it.
To say you are willing to pay a little bit more than online is not really valuing the thing you want to exist.
A lot of people would still begrudge that 'little bit' anyway.
They would not see it as value and probably then have to buy something online just to get over it!
I can see why bike shops do not want to pay sales staff a decent wage, but It must be v hard to get good bike mechanics at any wage.
People would pay for good repairs if you had a reputation for doing them.
So you would just keep hiring mechanics and upping prices until you hit a sweet spot that the market supported.
Will we have friendly knowledgeable staff, yes without a shadow of a doubt, all 3 of the current staff members are cyclists, both road and mtb, as said all are cytech 2 or above qualified so far as the technical side of things go, the customers needs will always be put first.
however will we have every single model and size that Lapierre have to offer in the store, no we won't, same as we won't for the other brands we will do, to accommodate every model from each brand, swell as every possible item of clothing and accessory you would need a warehouse, a range and representation of models available yes, .
online wise, we are not and never will try to be wiggle,crc,evans etc, a majority of the brands we have chosen are those that you will not find online at 40% discount, because the suppliers ensure that due to the brands demands, it de values the product.
a location that we have now found is looking very promising, and will enable us to open earlier and later to a degree to accommodate people wanting to drop off and collect before and after work, as parking is now available. Will we have loan bikes should you need one to continue your journey to work, yes, but it won't be used to gain any sales,nor will there be a cost involved, they will be loan/courtesy bikes, not a £2700 Xelius. if a customer is interested in a new model however, we will have dedicated demo models for this.
We will never be able to cater for everyones individual demands, there will always be that one maintenance part we may not have, or that one item of clothing in a certain size thats out of stock.
Free servicing will be given to EVERY new bike sold, with varying levels, and will be free labour and any parts at a discounted rate.
All we can do is our best by our customers, and listen to what input or suggestions they have, which is where a lot of IBD's go wrong0 -
Tend to disagree on this. Both my local shops have matched or in most cases actually beaten the prices online for bigger items. It is the smaller items they struggle with sometimes. Examples;
Giant Liv Envie - They knocked a decent chunk of when they had first come out. Rang a few other shops for the other half. None would budge.
Garmin 820 - A good £35 less than anywhere
Powertap C1 rings - £48 cheaper than anywhere else
New Exposure Strada - £28 under anywhere else.
Few more items including etap etc that friends have bought as well.
However getting them the same for chains, tyres and things like that they struggle with and they have shown me what they pay. In some cases more than what the online places are smashing it out.
I have had issues with a couple items and having the service to back these items up was invaluable. My Powertap died 2 days before I was due to go to Mallorca. They lent me a chainset and removed the old and fitted the new for no cost. So I do agree that great service is absolutely key!!!First Aspect wrote:Bike shops increasingly sell a service, not parts. They can't compete on price for the big stuff, but the service (and their experience) can be invaluable.0 -
The place I take my bikes for repair will always phone tell me what it will cost, they'll phone me up if that changes and they'll give me different options for parts so I can choose cheap or pricey. It just reassures me I'm not getting ripped off - I know how much is parts and how much is labour. The result is I have stuff done I would have done myself but for what the shop is charging i think it's worth paying them to do it - obviously they are doing it far faster and more efficiently than I would. That kind of transparency definitely works for me.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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mac1985 wrote:Will we have friendly knowledgeable staff, yes without a shadow of a doubt, all 3 of the current staff members are cyclists, both road and mtb, as said all are cytech 2 or above qualified so far as the technical side of things go, the customers needs will always be put first.
What retail experience do you and your staff have?
If I were you I would put you and your staff first and do your best with customers.
You cannot help any customers if you are out of business in 6 months or have staffing issues.
All sounds a bit fluffy to me.
Remember why you go to work (money) unless you enjoy giving people great service for free.
Make sure you value your staff with more than just words.
Never do anything for a customer that you would not do for staff.
Customers are not nice people a lot of the time.
Like children, have fair rules and stick to them (for customers and staff) if you don't want to lose control.
Give an inch and they will take a mile.
Give a mile and they will never settle for an inch.
Never ever over promise/under deliver.
Never drop your pants.
No need to do too much too soon.
Do whatever you do well and let people know what future plans are.
Good luck
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