Bike Choice - to disc or not to disc
Comments
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Veronese68 wrote:
How did you eliminate rim wear?PTestTeam wrote:IMO disc brakes are a solution to a non-existent problem on road bikes
Why don't disc rotors wear down?0 -
I've got semi-hydraulic discs on my Condor Fratello and am running Campy. Yes it's a bit of a mix of things, but I love it. And obviously it's not that light, the bike is steel anyway, but I'm not light either.
I'm not a weight weeny in any sense of the term but have been looking at a new, much lighter bike, probably carbon. Took a CAAD out the other day with full 105 and was freaked out how bad the rim brakes were. I've decided I'm probably a hydraulic disc man from here on in. Got my eye on the new Canyon discs as a self-gifted signifcant birthday present...0 -
PTestTeam wrote:Veronese68 wrote:
How did you eliminate rim wear?PTestTeam wrote:IMO disc brakes are a solution to a non-existent problem on road bikes
Why don't disc rotors wear down?
A new rotor is alot cheaper than a new wheel.
Which disk brakes did you use?0 -
Thigh_burn wrote:I've got semi-hydraulic discs on my Condor Fratello and am running Campy. Yes it's a bit of a mix of things, but I love it. And obviously it's not that light, the bike is steel anyway, but I'm not light either.
I'm not a weight weeny in any sense of the term but have been looking at a new, much lighter bike, probably carbon. Took a CAAD out the other day with full 105 and was freaked out how bad the rim brakes were. I've decided I'm probably a hydraulic disc man from here on in. Got my eye on the new Canyon discs as a self-gifted signifcant birthday present...
Exactly the same went from hydraulic disk brakes to a road bike with rim brakes and couldn't believe how bad they were. Now on a road bike with hydraulic disks and the braking is much better.0 -
They are H Plus sons archetype which do wear more than when I bought factory Campag. I do about 200km commuting and training a week. London roads and Kent hills and yes they are muddy with short sharp descents. I am pretty good at cleaning the bike and the pads though. But a rear H Plus son will last me a winter and if the weather in summer is pants. Like the beginning o this one was they wear pretty quickly.
It's looking like either a Deedachi Athena build or one of these ultegra disc bikes:
CAAD12 (in that Vulcan Green)
Cube Agree C620 -
PTestTeam wrote:Veronese68 wrote:
How did you eliminate rim wear?PTestTeam wrote:IMO disc brakes are a solution to a non-existent problem on road bikes
Why don't disc rotors wear down?
15,000 miles and mine dont need replacing. And if they did it would be £20 and a job that anyone can do, not needing a wheel builder.0 -
Check out the new Whyte Wessex road bike, should be hitting the shops about now, looks a hell of a spec and bang on budget at £2150.0
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I've got Red calipers on one bike, and TRP Spyre discs on the other (Cross bike). I like the discs as I my commute is part trail and dirt road, but the stopping power is no better than my Red calipers on the Foil. They're both really good but I've no interest in changing to discs on my 'best' bike.
If I was doing massive mileage in all weathers then I'd go discs, otherwise I wouldn't bother unless you really fancy the idea.0 -
I've run discs on my winter bike and rim on my two other bikes (one on carbon wheels). Fror me discs currently have two disadvantages over rims - a slight aero/weight penalty and they don't look as nice (IMO).
This only matters to me on my nice bike which is performance centric as far as I can sensibly afford, for everything else discs trump rim brakes. It's not even a close debate. The braking performance is significantly better, the wet weather performance is a different league, etc,etc. I wouldn't go back to a non-disc winter bike now.0 -
Ahh you hit on a red hot subject of mine.
The Whyte is very nice, as is the Bowman and lots of other British bikes like a Ribble instead of a Canyon. But my insurance companies preferred supplier doesn't deal with them, otherwise I would build up a Bowman. As always I moaned about this. Typical of us Brits, we love to ignore our own great heritage. Cars, bikes, beer, cider, food, suites, lawnmowers you name it if it's good and British 90% of the population will buy some over marketed tat that someone can't sell anywhere else.
I bought a new lawnmower the other day. Guy was insistent I should buy a Bosch. 'Better quality than the ones we make here' was his view ffs. How many Qualcast have you had returned this summer I asked ........ in the end he admitted none. So that's my little contribution to the trade deficit done for the day and the Qualcast is great. But to stay on my hobby horse for a while, us Brit's defy reason:
- Jaguar ..... nope most buy a BMW. I had an XF after my last 5 series. It is better value, better designed and better looking full stop.
- Beer err no Australian or fake Italian/French piss water. They must be laughing all the way to the Bank that some numb nuts in Blighty think Peronni is a premium beer. It's not, it's after work piss water before they move onto some nice wine.
- Cider err no Swedish. I mean what other effing country would accept that! Well I certainly didn't find Koppercrap in Brittany the other day when I visited a French friend
- French water in a country where it never stops raining. I really, really, really wished I'd been at the marketing meeting the day Evian said 'I know we will sell water to the British' and someone agreed we were stupid enough to buy it.
- Hugo Boss is a good one. Hitlers best mate starts selling suites to a country with the finest tailoring heritage in the world ............ and is successful.
- Remember Danish bacon!
Basically the rest of the worlds marketing training courses have a little addendum note - 'Except in Britain where those knobs will buy anything. So assess something they really like, make sure you give it a really foreign name and then they will ensure the local competition goes out of business for you.'
No wonder they were surprised we voted for Brexit.0 -
Tiesetrotter wrote:Ahh you hit on a red hot subject of mine.
The Whyte is very nice, as is the Bowman and lots of other British bikes like a Ribble instead of a Canyon. But my insurance companies preferred supplier doesn't deal with them, otherwise I would build up a Bowman. As always I moaned about this. Typical of us Brits, we love to ignore our own great heritage. Cars, bikes, beer, cider, food, suites, lawnmowers you name it if it's good and British 90% of the population will buy some over marketed tat that someone can't sell anywhere else.
I bought a new lawnmower the other day. Guy was insistent I should buy a Bosch. 'Better quality than the ones we make here' was his view ffs. How many Qualcast have you had returned this summer I asked ........ in the end he admitted none. So that's my little contribution to the trade deficit done for the day and the Qualcast is great. But to stay on my hobby horse for a while, us Brit's defy reason:
- Jaguar ..... nope most buy a BMW. I had an XF after my last 5 series. It is better value, better designed and better looking full stop.
- Beer err no Australian or fake Italian/French wee-wee water. They must be laughing all the way to the Bank that some numb nuts in Blighty think Peronni is a premium beer. It's not, it's after work wee-wee water before they move onto some nice wine.
- Cider err no Swedish. I mean what other effing country would accept that! Well I certainly didn't find Koppercrap in Brittany the other day when I visited a French friend
- French water in a country where it never stops raining. I really, really, really wished I'd been at the marketing meeting the day Evian said 'I know we will sell water to the British' and someone agreed we were stupid enough to buy it.
- Hugo Boss is a good one. Hitlers best mate starts selling suites to a country with the finest tailoring heritage in the world ............ and is successful.
- Remember Danish bacon!
Basically the rest of the worlds marketing training courses have a little addendum note - 'Except in Britain where those knobs will buy anything. So assess something they really like, make sure you give it a really foreign name and then they will ensure the local competition goes out of business for you.'
No wonder they were surprised we voted for Brexit.
I'm 99.9999999% sure we do exactly the same to them. Same with all the hysteria over foreign companies owning 'British' brands. How many foreign companies do we own?
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I'm pretty sure Qualcast is (or certainly was) owned by Bosch. Jaguar is owned by Tata. I think Hugo Boss was bought by an Italian company (or, at least, had its suits made in Italy), much of the beer sold in this country is brewed in this country (regardless of the name on the bottle). The name on the product doesn't tell you much about its origins.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0
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back onto the choice of brakes ...
I'd go down the disc brake option - I've got a few bikes - one 29er with hydrolic disc brakes - and it's great at shitty surface downhill braking - ok, a lot of that is to do with the 55mm tyres - but even so - the braking is just there - compared to my rim brake bikes anyway - the best of them has ultegra (I'm not a campy guy) and is pretty good - nothing I'd want to change away from on a normal road ride - but put that on a winter commute in the wet when the temperature is around 0°C - I'd rather have the disc brakes. My second bike was a CX for commuting and I got it with rim brakes so I could swap wheels around with my road bike - I should've got a disc braked version.0 -
If I had one bike and didn't race, I'd go disc with some decent carbon rims, like Slowmart has.
I have just built a fixie with a Juin Tech R1 hybrid brake and the modulation is lovely. It's also nice to know I won't be going through rims every 3-6 months.0 -
I don't get the whole 'rim brakes cause excessive rim wear' thing. I use trail for the majority of braking wherever possible, the brakes are used to come to a halt. I ride in some shocking conditions in the winter time, and still don't knacker my rims.0
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Milemuncher1 wrote:I don't get the whole 'rim brakes cause excessive rim wear' thing. I use trail for the majority of braking wherever possible, the brakes are used to come to a halt. I ride in some shocking conditions in the winter time, and still don't knacker my rims.
What's "trail"? If you have hills and corners, you need brakes (unless you're FGSS) and all brake surfaces wear - especially if contaminated with crap.
Besides, if you ride in shocking conditions, disc brakes just make sense: because they work.
I'm a disc evangelist but if you ride on the flat, or only dry, or you're especially light, the benefits are less. My Foil has rim brakes (because it was very cheap and bought to ride in N Holland) - if I ride in crappy conditions, I just take the Jamis.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
A brake disc £10, pair of pads £9 - pair of wheels? Oh..PTestTeam wrote:Veronese68 wrote:
How did you eliminate rim wear?PTestTeam wrote:IMO disc brakes are a solution to a non-existent problem on road bikes
Why don't disc rotors wear down?
And the people bowed and prayed, to the neon god they made.0 -
Milemuncher1 wrote:I don't get the whole 'rim brakes cause excessive rim wear' thing. I use trail for the majority of braking wherever possible, the brakes are used to come to a halt. I ride in some shocking conditions in the winter time, and still don't knacker my rims.
The one bit on a winter commute when I'd like disc brakes is a hill in the country which is single lane with blind bends - in the dark and wet, especially if there's ice about, I prefer to go down there slowly - I can sit on my brakes (rim) - but they're noticably worse in those conditions - and sound bluddy awful ... having ridden in similar conditions with disc brakes - I'd prefer the discs ... Once on the main road there's minimum braking required - otherwise I'd be tempted to get a disc braked winter commute bike.0 -
Best not mention that discs seem to last longer as well. I'm on the same set of discs after 3 years with not much wear. I'd have worn through a set of rims in less than that.NeXXus wrote:
A brake disc £10, pair of pads £9 - pair of wheels? Oh..PTestTeam wrote:Veronese68 wrote:
How did you eliminate rim wear?PTestTeam wrote:IMO disc brakes are a solution to a non-existent problem on road bikes
Why don't disc rotors wear down?0 -
NeXXus wrote:
A brake disc £10, pair of pads £9 - pair of wheels? Oh..PTestTeam wrote:Veronese68 wrote:
How did you eliminate rim wear?PTestTeam wrote:IMO disc brakes are a solution to a non-existent problem on road bikes
Why don't disc rotors wear down?
I've always been a fan of the performance of discs but haven't bothered changing the road bike......but I'm now shopping for a new one and I will definitely be getting a disc braked bike, both because of the performance benefits and this comment above - I can stop thinking of wheels as a consumable and just buy new brake pads and rotors!Trail fun - Transition Bandit
Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
Allround - Cotic Solaris0 -
Veronese68 wrote:
Best not mention that discs seem to last longer as well. I'm on the same set of discs after 3 years with not much wear. I'd have worn through a set of rims in less than that.NeXXus wrote:
A brake disc £10, pair of pads £9 - pair of wheels? Oh..PTestTeam wrote:Veronese68 wrote:
How did you eliminate rim wear?PTestTeam wrote:IMO disc brakes are a solution to a non-existent problem on road bikes
Why don't disc rotors wear down?
Discs = steel
Rims = Al alloy
Discs, 40-50 cm above the ground
Rims, close to the ground repeatedly covered in crud
Big difference0 -
Milemuncher1 wrote:I don't get the whole 'rim brakes cause excessive rim wear' thing. I use trail for the majority of braking wherever possible, the brakes are used to come to a halt. I ride in some shocking conditions in the winter time, and still don't knacker my rims.
Milemuncher, we know that you're cruizing around at 40 rpm on 50x11. You're not using brakes either!
Seriously though, it probably depends on where you ride. You'll just have to take it on faith that a lot of people do wear their rims out from braking.0 -
Slowbike wrote:Milemuncher1 wrote:I don't get the whole 'rim brakes cause excessive rim wear' thing. I use trail for the majority of braking wherever possible, the brakes are used to come to a halt. I ride in some shocking conditions in the winter time, and still don't knacker my rims.
The one bit on a winter commute when I'd like disc brakes is a hill in the country which is single lane with blind bends - in the dark and wet, especially if there's ice about, I prefer to go down there slowly - I can sit on my brakes (rim) - but they're noticably worse in those conditions - and sound bluddy awful ... having ridden in similar conditions with disc brakes - I'd prefer the discs ... Once on the main road there's minimum braking required - otherwise I'd be tempted to get a disc braked winter commute bike.
From what I think you are saying there, you need to be careful because continually riding disk brakes (dragging) will overheat them and maybe even glaze the pads and/or boil the hydraulic fluid. You need to pulse them, alternate front & rear or just generally back off every now and then to let them cool. For continual dragging of brakes to maintain a set speed over a long period, rim brakes will suffer less because they are braking over a much larger surface area so heat buildup isnt an issue.
This highlights the one and only time when I wouldnt want disc brakes - if I were riding long steep downhills on a regular basis, like if I lived in the Alps.
When I did lots of long downhills (accompanied by the requisite long uphills!) in Tuscany, I did manage to overheat the Elixirs on my flat bar bike, but the worst of that seemed to be because I had a defective set of pads on the front (new pads I had fitted for the tour). Fitted a new, spare set that I had brought with me and they were alot better but did eventually overheat if pushed hard on some of the descents, so I had to make sure I gave them time to cool when I didnt brake.
On my Whyte Cornwall with Shimano brakes that have finned pads and Ice-tec rotors, I think I wouldnt have seen the problem. They are so much better as brakes and I think the extra cooling really helps avoid heat buildup. You can also get finned rotors if you want but they are expensive. If I lived in the Alps, I might still have concerns though, at the very least I would seek reassurance.
In every other way though, disc brakes are massively superior. Hydraulics are so much easier to pull from the hoods though, one finger braking is so much better than having to pull on a cable and control is so much more precise and when its wet you dont have to wait for the water on the rims to disperse before you start slowing down.0 -
apreading wrote:
From what I think you are saying there, you need to be careful because continually riding disk brakes (dragging) will overheat them and maybe even glaze the pads and/or boil the hydraulic fluid. You need to pulse them, alternate front & rear or just generally back off every now and then to let them cool. For continual dragging of brakes to maintain a set speed over a long period, rim brakes will suffer less because they are braking over a much larger surface area so heat buildup isnt an issue.
This highlights the one and only time when I wouldnt want disc brakes - if I were riding long steep downhills on a regular basis, like if I lived in the Alps.
Whilst I agree with a lot of what you've written, there's stuff here I can't agree with.
For starters, I chose discs over rims for descending The Alpe multiple times and I'm really glad I did because they were fantastic.
I also can't agree with the heat bit, either. A disc is designed to absorb the friction and disappate the heat and is sized and designed accordingly. The rim of a rim brake is just a series of compromises. The size of the braking surface is just determined by the size of the wheel. The material of the surface is a compromise. The heat goes into the wheel material which may (or, in the case of carbon) may not be a good conductor of heat. The heat is being absorbed by the wheel right next to the tyre - presenting a real risk of popping a clincher. The brake pads themselves are a compromise (because you don't want to wear out the rim). And so it goes on. On the same descents I was doing, I heard several tyres let go.
I do agree, however, that dragging brakes (any brake) is poor technique and unnecessary.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
I have trashed pads and oil on my disc bikes, but then I have popped a tire on a rim braker by over use of brakes
I prefer the disc brakes going spongy and crap braking over a sudden front deflation any day.0 -
I'll not be using rim brakes again except for cross racing from now on.
I used up 4 rims over 2 years on the Ridley (with canti brakes) commuting and racing. They needed endless fiddling to stay in good order and the realities of a cruddy damp commute on gravelly new forest tracks and roads, combined with my size and weight.... It was just a bit too hair raising at times and becoming expensive (and filthy)
New CAADX with the pro max stuff - as good as cantis when set up perfectly, but stayed that way during our trip to Pembrokeshire and never had to fiddle with them as yet (will replace with hy-rds tho). Sure, the bike looks like a gate (size 61) and the mudguards are anything but cool, but can't wait for term to start and get commuting again truth be told.0 -
Right then. I think I'll be going down the CAAD12 disc in Vulcan Green. Would love the Bowman Pilgrim but the insurance company won't do it.
For summer and racing I'll stick to the Campagnolo clad wonder horse.0 -
i hate when some people say my rims last forever. Mine dont even if I take care of them. 3000-5000 miles for an alloy rim thats it. I am 82 kg as well as use pads that fairly soft. The only rim brake rims that last for me are carbon rims they take forever to wear out, still waiting. I dont think the PAcenti SL23's I have on one bike that gets used in winter have even done 3000 miles and the front is looking quite worn. Fortunatley I have a stash of V1 rims that customers did not want when the v2 rim came out so I am o.k for a while.
Rim brakes are expesnive and I am not doing anything wrong either, it is just the weather I ride in and the mileage I do.
one bike to do it all is not even a road bike it is a rigid 29er of course with lauter wasser bars and R795 STI's XT Di2 RD and 1x11 drivetrain. You can get 46T chainrings now and 46T:11 is much like the 52:12T gear I have on my race bike.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0
