New detachable chinguard helmet from Giro

neilus

Hiya
Ive always liked the idea of helmets with detachable chin guards, Giro have just jumped on the Super 2R bandwagon:
https://dirtmountainbike.com/bike-revie ... elmet.html
Looks ok as an enduro/DH lid (and i think it meets more safety standards than the 2R) but without the chin guard for climbing/easy AM type stuff - it looks seriously bulky. I reckon they seriously ballsed up the design here. Without the chinguard no-one in their right mind would wear that thing for AM riding.
What d'yall make of it?

rockmonkeysc

Not for me. I'll only wear a full face for downhill. For anything else I'll stick with an open face helmet. I don't feel the need for a helmet like this.

neilus

And if you entered an enduro race, which would you use?

rockmonkeysc

I have done several enduro races and prefer the open face.
Enduro is basically what we've been doing for 10+ years and been fine with just an xc helmet. I don't see any reason to start using a full face just because it's now called enduro.

cooldad

That's not a very enduro attitude.

neilus

Fair enough, I think we've had the FF convo before
But you have to admit the pic of the guy riding the new Giro without the chin guard - look at that thing! It looks like a dh helmet without the chinguard. Urgh!

poah

its rank and looks like it will be hot - I'll stick with my parachute for everything but DH tracks where I'll take my 7iDP (661) FF. wouldn't wear a helmet without a chin guard now

neilus

"now"...? did you have a "I should have worn a ff moment"? Ive had a few, one on the tamest of terrain, scuffs to the chinguard suggest id have messed up my face pretty badly and another last week, admittedly in a Alpine bike park...had a ff on both times thank god. I dunno, we all have different parameters regarding risk, not smashing my face up for the hassle of having a ff slung over the bars on climbs and/or looking like a bit of a tool is fine by me. Its a potentially hugely dangerous sport (discovered a while ago that a friend is now paralysed after a fall ) and im totally unconvinced that you can be too careful...

rockmonkeysc

I've just weighed up the number of facial injuries I've seen in the last ten years (two!) against the discomfort of wearing a full face while climbing.

The Rookie

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I've just weighed up the number of facial injuries I've seen in the last ten years (two!) against the discomfort of wearing a full face while climbing.

No guarantee an FF would have prevented them anyway of course.

neilus

The Rookie wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I've just weighed up the number of facial injuries I've seen in the last ten years (two!) against the discomfort of wearing a full face while climbing.

No guarantee an FF would have prevented them anyway of course.

True, no guarantee...but a massive, overwhelming likelihood they did prevent facial injuries. Why would you question the fairly safe assumption that in 99% of cases a FF would prevent or at least seriously reduce facial injuries?

VWsurfbum

I have a parachute and its coming up to two years old so was looking around for a replacement, I looked at the Uvex one and i have tried the Bell. ii was looking forward to this one and its just horrendous. apart from boiling your head it looks like you'll be getting on a special bus and not the uplift one.

rockmonkeysc

neilus wrote:

The Rookie wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I've just weighed up the number of facial injuries I've seen in the last ten years (two!) against the discomfort of wearing a full face while climbing.

No guarantee an FF would have prevented them anyway of course.

True, no guarantee...but a massive, overwhelming likelihood they did prevent facial injuries. Why would you question the fairly safe assumption that in 99% of cases a FF would prevent or at least seriously reduce facial injuries?

I forget whether it was a Bell Super 2r or a Met Parachute but there was a pretty nasty facial injury last year in an enduro race when the chin bar failed.
I've personally had a handlebar end wedged inside my full face helmet which wouldn't have happened with my xc helmet. I've seen a shredded lip and shattered tooth caused when a chin bar dug in to soft ground and scooped up a rock.
Obviously they prevent many thousands of serious injuries. I'm certainly not saying they're dangerous! I quite like my carbon Fox Rampage.
Not everyone will feel the need to wear one for anything other than downhill. It's just about you're comfortable with.

cooldad

Problem with protection and injuries is I'm sure we all know someone who has been injured somewhere. Try and protect from them all and you might as well be swathed in bubblewrap.

I am happy with a helmet and gloves for my level of gnar, but most people I ride with have knee pads, some elbow pads, and now and again shin pads.

I use cowardice as protection.

neilus

RockmonkeySC wrote:

neilus wrote:

The Rookie wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I've just weighed up the number of facial injuries I've seen in the last ten years (two!) against the discomfort of wearing a full face while climbing.

No guarantee an FF would have prevented them anyway of course.

True, no guarantee...but a massive, overwhelming likelihood they did prevent facial injuries. Why would you question the fairly safe assumption that in 99% of cases a FF would prevent or at least seriously reduce facial injuries?

I forget whether it was a Bell Super 2r or a Met Parachute but there was a pretty nasty facial injury last year in an enduro race when the chin bar failed.
I've personally had a handlebar end wedged inside my full face helmet which wouldn't have happened with my xc helmet. I've seen a shredded lip and shattered tooth caused when a chin bar dug in to soft ground and scooped up a rock.
Obviously they prevent many thousands of serious injuries. I'm certainly not saying they're dangerous! I quite like my carbon Fox Rampage.
Not everyone will feel the need to wear one for anything other than downhill. It's just about you're comfortable with.

Ok fair enough, but you kinda admit that these few cases are massive exceptions. Think about it, a rider who faceplants a rocky trail at 30mph when wearing a ff wont be particularly inclined to post a pic of his smiling, injury free face saying "wow, look at all the injuries i dont have because i had a ff helmet on". We tend to focus on the one in a thousand exception to the norm and credit it with more significance than it deserves, seems to be a peculiar human trait.
But protection is a very important issue. As i mentioned a friend had a life changing accident...ii guess you dont speak German, but here is her story. Brave, brave gal and she's still out hitting the trails, massive inspiration...https://vimeo.com/60019355

The Rookie

neilus wrote:

The Rookie wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I've just weighed up the number of facial injuries I've seen in the last ten years (two!) against the discomfort of wearing a full face while climbing.

No guarantee an FF would have prevented them anyway of course.

True, no guarantee...but a massive, overwhelming likelihood they did prevent facial injuries. Why would you question the fairly safe assumption that in 99% of cases a FF would prevent or at least seriously reduce facial injuries?

Where the heck do you magic 99% from?

neilus

The Rookie wrote:

neilus wrote:

The Rookie wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I've just weighed up the number of facial injuries I've seen in the last ten years (two!) against the discomfort of wearing a full face while climbing.

No guarantee an FF would have prevented them anyway of course.

True, no guarantee...but a massive, overwhelming likelihood they did prevent facial injuries. Why would you question the fairly safe assumption that in 99% of cases a FF would prevent or at least seriously reduce facial injuries?

Where the heck do you magic 99% from?

Just a figure of speech. I get the impression youre not convinced that FF helmets offer more protection, im curious why you think this?

The Rookie

I'm convinced they offer extra protection, just not sure I believe the 99%, the only facial injuriy I've seen on a ride was caused by the end of a branch that would have gone straight through the face hole on a FF anyway. As CD says the nature of the sport is such that the only way to avoid injury is not to ride. My two moderately serious injuries would not have been prevented by wearing anything vaguely applicable to the type of ride I was on, the one (at Cannock) wouldn't have been prevented by wearing full DH kit as it was on the inside of my upper arm.

neilus

Cheers Rookie. What was the other accident?
I guess the thing about facial injuries is that as bad as they look, and unpleasant as they are, they are essentially superficial. Potentially expensive if teeth are involved but not in the same league as spinal or head injuries. If i really want to get protected as well as possible, a back protector should be a bigger priority.
Im actually thinking about making some prototypes of armoured gloves and other stuff. I studied product design so building stuff is second nature to me and i have a friend at the local Technical Uni where i should be able to run some basic drop/impact testing and get a rough idea of whether the designs are robust enough. It was this that really got me thinking its possible: DIY carbon fibre parts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAdVO8Rkv6c
How cool is that??

BloggingFit

Not a FF fan myself although I've not ever ridden with one to ever give a valid comparison. I'm happy enough riding with an open lid and have never felt the need to want any more.

I toyed with knee pads once. Even purchased a set of Dainese Trail Skins last year and got as far as trying them on for fit and comfort and decided I couldn't be arsed dealing with how they may feel after a few hours riding after about a minute of walking around the house in them. Still unused in a drawer somewhere.

I could benefit from elbow pads I expect as I ride elbows flared out and like smacking them against trees and bushes. Again I don't I'd like the feel of wearing them on the bike.

VWsurfbum

Anyone seen this beauty?
I'm certainly interested!
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/leatt-conv ... -2016.html

neilus

Good find VW, but looking again...im not convinced about the strength of the securing clip. On this pic of the inside of the chinbar there are two small tabs which i guess slot into the helmet but it looks like thats all there is securing the bar to the helmet. Hmmm, ok. It will be interesting to see if they post a film of some testing like Bell did for the Super 2R (which came out of it pretty well).

VWsurfbum

Well it matches my bike

VWsurfbum

Theyre are not securing lugs they are location lugs, look at the top picture, big metal fasteners that don't seem to be on the other pictures?