Olympic thread ** non cycling. **SPOILERS**

Pross

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Pross wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Caster Semanya presents an ethical dilemma. No ovaries and as much testosterone as a man, produced by testes. If any other female athlete had this level of hormone she would be a doper.
Where does she fit in?

http://sportsscientists.com/2016/07/cas ... ya-debate/

The way she has been treated over the years is a disgrace. She suffers from a medical condition that apparently other athletes have too but in her case what should be a private medical matter has been turned into public knowledge. She's not cheating, it's a natural condition and she is still a woman. Yes, it gives an advantage in sporting performance but there are plenty of cases where people are born with natural attributes that benefit their athletic potential. No doubt in many aspects of her life it has negative impacts on her life.

What if the medical condition is having testicles ?

I don't think she should be there - I feel sympathy for her but why can't it be that she is born with a condition whereby she is neither male or female but has traits of both and that disqualifies her from competing in female only sport.

There are a number of athletes who have had surgery for similar conditions so as to continue competing - if we open the sport up for intersex athletes then what happens if every event is won by athletes that look, run and sound like men ? Yes it's bad luck on people who are born this way but is it really wrong to say yes you are a woman but a woman born with a condition which disqualifies you from competing in elite level sport ?

That's all pretty irrelevant though. The decision has been made that she can compete, athletes more or less blanking her for the way she was born is disgraceful as is the way all these issues have been dragged out into the public domain. If there had been a ruling she has an unfair advantage and cannot compete that's a different matter. Lindsey Sharp epitomised the selfish attitude in her post race interview saying how her and the other girls speak regularly and on sole themselves or words to that effect. I found it quite sickening that this is the way they are talking about a fellow athlete competing under such srutiny while twice convicted dopers can compete with barely a murmur.

DeVlaeminck

How would you feel if Usain Bolt decided he wanted to live as a female and started entering the womens sprints ? Serious question - what would be the difference - someone who considers themself a female but who has the male characteristics that confer an athletic advantage ?

Pross

DeVlaeminck wrote:

How would you feel if Usain Bolt decided he wanted to live as a female and started entering the womens sprints ? Serious question - what would be the difference - someone who considers themself a female but who has the male characteristics that confer an athletic advantage ?

It would be different as it wouldn't be his natural condition. I assume that medically someone is either born male or female but that some conditions give them more hormones of the opposite sex than is normal which is completely different from choosing to change gender. However, it's missing my main point which is the way her fellow athletes and much of the media are treating her as more of an outcast than convicted dopers when she has done nothing wrong and that her medical history should never have been brought into the public domain. I wouldn't have a problem if a rule was brought in saying a female athlete with a testosterone level above x cannot compete as a woman (although making a reasoned decision of what level x should be is always tricky) but that isn't the case at present.

DeVlaeminck

It's not as simple as you think. Your assumption that someone is born either male or female is incorrect - there are a range of possibilities that we might term intersex and while we don't know what the situation is with any individual due to confidentiality it is a fair bet that Semenya is one of those.

To cover this a rule was brought in limiting the amount of testosterone a female athlete could have. This was seen as being more in line with human rights than banning people who considered themselves female. Then CAS decided to suspend that rule for 2 years hence Semenya can now compete without taking medication to suppress her levels of testosterone (still to a level well above the vast majority of women). Also going back to Bolt - if he did now decide he was female and live as a woman why would he not have as much right to compete without taking medication to limit testosterone production. You say it's not his "natural condition" but I think you'll find many transgender people objecting and saying it is up to them to tell you what their natural condition is.

As for how the other athletes treat Semenya and the other intersex athletes - that's up to them - I would be quite bitter about it myself in their position.

Pross

Dubious judging once again in the last two fights in the boxing.

awavey

mfin wrote:

Pross wrote:

mfin wrote:

We should remove Dressage medals from our medal tally, because it's such complete and utter ****.

It's ridiculous having any equestrian events, it's as daft as having something like olympic sheep dog trials as an event.

I don't really mind horses, they taste quite nice.

Ah, there's always one. They usually change their mind if the try it for themselves and realise that whilst it might not need TdF levels of endurance it certainly isn't physically easy.

That's not the point. It involves a horse. You might as well let motor racing in.

theyve tried, but if you hated the horses, then youll love hearing theyve included skateboarding and sports climbing in the 2020 games. theyll have darts in next before you know it

laurentian

awavey wrote:

theyve tried, but if you hated the horses, then youll love hearing theyve included skateboarding and sports climbing in the 2020 games. theyll have darts in next before you know it

I'd love to see darts in the Olympics! If archery is in, why not darts?

Its also one of my favourite sports to see on TV . . .

bobmcstuff

laurentian wrote:

awavey wrote:

theyve tried, but if you hated the horses, then youll love hearing theyve included skateboarding and sports climbing in the 2020 games. theyll have darts in next before you know it

I'd love to see darts in the Olympics! If archery is in, why not darts?

Its also one of my favourite sports to see on TV . . .

Darts isn't a sport - it's a game My rule is if you can do it comfortably while holding a pint then it's not really a sport.

Be interested to see sport climbing on TV as it could be pretty entertaining.