Tow Paths = Dangerous ?

mr_eddy

So the other day in an effort to find a less noisy commute I decided to go the long way home following the tow path (also dedicated cycle path) that runs along Attenborough Nature Reseve and then following it along the River Erewash.

Any thought of a gentle ride vanished after 2 miles in and the 3rd close call with a dog walker, I dug in and completed the route thinking it would get better but it didn't, I was amazed at how many hazards were on this 1m wide tow path. Several near misses with cyclists coming the other way clearly trying to get some sort of Strava top 10, Several dog walkers just letting their dogs run riot and mounds of dog crap every 20 feet. I was cycling with caution and whistling or otherwise making myself heard on every blind corner but still I nearly came a cropper several times.

I should add that I did see some courteous dog walkers who did the decent thing and kept their dog on a lead.

Add to that the loose and crappy surface / The million flying insects and the smell of cow sh*t. I have had this experience on other tow paths near me but as they were not part of the Big Wheel campaign thing that my city is promoting I thought that they were just the exception but this final foray has sealed my opinion. Even the so called cycle paths around Nottingham are mostly just bits of pavement strewn with pot holes and glass fragments.

If you want to get home safely and quickly without dog sh*t on your bike (and without guards maybe on you) then do the sensible thing and put on some high vis stuff and use the roads.

Since my experiment I have only used the roads and because I consider myself a non-dick cyclist I have had no problems at all.

Anyone else given up on tow paths / Poorly thought out cycle paths ?

fat daddy

I wouldn't call them dangerous .... but you are trying to commute on a 1m width shared gravel path of walkers, children, pets, other commuters and tourists all of which have the same rights and .... I wouldn't expect to do any more than 5mph in that sort of environment. .. its only as dangerous as you make it

drlodge

I did the 23 mile (each way) trip along the Basingstoke Canal from my home (in Brookwood) to the Greywell tunnel. It was a better experience than yours but I think mainly due to there being very few people on the tow path. Dogs were on a lead and no dog poop anywhere.

Sleeper Service

I used to commute from Livingston to Edinburgh along the Union Canal towpath, which is part of NCR 75. Unfortunately, it's awful for the reasons you outline.

I haven't bothered with it in years. It's much easier going along the A89 paths now.

mrfpb

The rule on canal paths is cyclists should give way to pedestrians!

I use them when I'm happy to go slow. The Basingstoke canal has some quiet sections, and the Woking district is often in better condition than the backroads that run near it, but the residential areas are always busy, and at this time of year, overgrown with bramble, nettles and other foliage. Dogs are a real hassle, but you can't expect them to always be on the lead. Personally I gave up walking the dog along the canal after one outing.

tangled_metal

Cyclists going too fast on mixed use paths are dangerous. You cycle according to the conditions and other users present. If you have a problem then perhaps you just have too high expectations.

Dogs loose or on extendable leads, walkers oblivious to anyone else, cyclists with attitude and speed to match and just plain impossible to get up to speed.

My local towpath adds 10 to 15 minutes over the road that is a more direct route. Actually the road route is only about 0.05 to 0.075 miles longer. The canal route starts a third or just over halfway along the road route depending where I choose to leave the road for the towpath. It initially weaves around but later on it follows the road exactly. However for that small increase in distance you get about 10 to 15 minutes extra travel time. That is all down to how you have to slow to walking pace every bridge, every dog and every human. Cyclists coming the other way have a very.bad habit of trying to ride on the right as in opposite side to the road. That makes no sense to me. Then there's the vibrations from the path surface. It really causes me to get numb hands.

I still like to ride it but very occasionally. A pleasant change perhaps.

mr_eddy

In response to some of the above I agree that cyclist should be courteous but I refuse to accept that pedestrians have the right of way, The tow path is clearly marked as a dedicated cycle path so we have just as much right as walkers. As I stated I was cycling with caution and being very courteous (not so for some of the other cyclist).

My biggest bug bear is with dogs not on a lead , Surely its against the rules to let your dog completely loose in a nature reserve!

I suppose if you are happy to go 3-5mph then they are fine but then that begs the question why cycle ? You can walk that fast and save the bother of carrying spares.

Anyway my lesson has been learned I will leave the tow paths to unruly dogs and their owners. I bet they would put the dogs on a lead when walking along the road.

The Rookie

Tow paths are fine at night with a big light telling everyone you are coming, only ride for your stopping distance and visibility, not fast but sometimes the direct route makes up for the lower speed.

Knowing a few people who have had unintended baths then be prepared ........

Is it a dedicated cycle path really, I doubt it is as its still the canal tow path (hint in the name) so its probably shared use in which case you have to give way.

A dog can be off the lead as long as its controllable (obedient).

Or to put it another way IT'S NOT JUST THERE FOR YOU - live and let live, to be honest you're coming across as the sort of cyclist that gives us all a bad name!

kingstongraham

mr_eddy wrote:

...I refuse to accept that pedestrians have the right of way, The tow path is clearly marked as a dedicated cycle path so we have just as much right as walkers.

No. Surely it's like on a road where other road users have a duty to slow down and be prepared to stop to avoid pedestrians.

drlodge

KingstonGraham wrote:

mr_eddy wrote:

...I refuse to accept that pedestrians have the right of way, The tow path is clearly marked as a dedicated cycle path so we have just as much right as walkers.

No. Surely it's like on a road where other road users have a duty to slow down and be prepared to stop to avoid pedestrians.

Indeed. Its not about "right" or "right of way". Its about who has "priority" and on tow paths I'd say pedestrians have priority over cyclists.

Sleeper Service

In response to some of the above I agree that cyclist should be courteous but I refuse to accept that pedestrians have the right of way

All legal considerations aside, I go with the view that the most vulnerable user has right of way, as they are at the most risk. In this case pedestrians would come before cyclists who would come before cars (not that you'd see many cars on a towpath, mind!).

imatfaal

If it is under the same set of rules as canals in London then pedestrians use the canals as part of the formation of the trust that granted the tow paths to the canal and river trust (it is a permissive access on license - ie they are not rights of way although not sure this would stand up to legal challenge) and by the trust's original design pedestrian have priority. Not so long ago cyclists needed an individual licence to use canal paths; this is no longer the case but, as they are not public highways, the canal and river trust can dictate the terms upon which you, as a cyclist, have access to their paths.

They are normally straight, and once you know where the access points are you can bomb it along :-) I have given up speeding on the canal as they are too busy . Although I must admit this morning it was very quiet and I could see I had a decent stretch with no possibility of any interuption and got up to 42km/h before I slowed knowing another blind entrance was coming

cougie

Inconsiderate riding I think. When I've used towpaths they've been fine. If you want speed use the roads. On a towpath you need to take it easy. You'd not want to be in the water or knock someone else into it.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Have a looping sample of a motorcross bike set on maximum volume on your phone/tablet, to keep inconsiderate people/dogs out of your way, enabling you to become #1 on strava segments.;)

thistle_

Tow paths can be dangerous, but so can anywhere else it's just a different kind of danger.

Pedestrians are to be expected, but dogs sh***ing everywhere and running around out of control is something that I think the Canals and Rivers Trust need to try and do more about because they spoil it for everyone (other pedestrians included).

tangled_metal

Dog poo bags! Need I say more? Dog owners can be real sh1ts sometimes.

I once turned turned round on a narrow, confined footpath to speak to a friend then turned back to the front and nearly got a poo bag to the face. Some idiot, antisocial person had tied it to a branch such that it was at face height for me (I'm 6'5" so it was a deliberate act tying it up that high. As you may guess I'm now someone who gets very angry at seeing poo bags full by the side of roads, paths, carparks, etc. I'd like to be able to rub those dog owners faces in it!. Most dog owners I meet I find are great people. I regularly chat to them as I'm walking my young boy (human, really he's my son not a dog in treat as a child). I find the good owners are really positive and are very happy to help me familiarize my young son with how to be around dogs. I can't have dogs but I feel children need educating in how to treat/behave around animals. It's kind of a life skill.

YIMan

mr_eddy wrote:

So the other day in an effort to find a less noisy commute I decided to go the long way home following the tow path (also dedicated cycle path) that runs along Attenborough Nature Reseve and then following it along the River Erewash.

Any thought of a gentle ride vanished after 2 miles in and the 3rd close call with a dog walker, I dug in and completed the route thinking it would get better but it didn't, I was amazed at how many hazards were on this 1m wide tow path. Several near misses with cyclists coming the other way clearly trying to get some sort of Strava top 10, Several dog walkers just letting their dogs run riot and mounds of dog crap every 20 feet. I was cycling with caution and whistling or otherwise making myself heard on every blind corner but still I nearly came a cropper several times.

I should add that I did see some courteous dog walkers who did the decent thing and kept their dog on a lead.

Add to that the loose and crappy surface / The million flying insects and the smell of cow sh*t. I have had this experience on other tow paths near me but as they were not part of the Big Wheel campaign thing that my city is promoting I thought that they were just the exception but this final foray has sealed my opinion. Even the so called cycle paths around Nottingham are mostly just bits of pavement strewn with pot holes and glass fragments.

If you want to get home safely and quickly without dog sh*t on your bike (and without guards maybe on you) then do the sensible thing and put on some high vis stuff and use the roads.

Since my experiment I have only used the roads and because I consider myself a non-dick cyclist I have had no problems at all.

Anyone else given up on tow paths / Poorly thought out cycle paths ?

That particular towpath (along the river at least) is NOT a dedicated cycle path. In fact along the river you will see signs saying that it's something like a permitted route and the landowner has allowed cycling on it. There are signs asking cyclists to give way to other users or the permission may be withdrawn.

Personally, all around Attenborough and the riverbank is such a mix of users - cyclists, dog walkers, pushchairs, joggers, that I'd give it a miss unless it was early morning or I wasn't in a rush and just wanted a bit of scenery.

mr_eddy

I once had a go at a dog owner (this time for running loose on a genuine cycle path hucknall road) and he said "you have to expect dogs, there are 14 million dog owners" but by his own admission he failed to understand that this means there are 50-odd million none-dog owners.

I do like dogs, I really do but I tend to find most of the dog owners I come across have no idea of discipline. Either letting them run and jump up at me when cycling past or when sitting at the bus stop, "He likes you" well I don't give a toss if he likes me its not acceptable for you to assume that its ok for him to do it. Either that or thinking its fine to bark non stop in the garden for hours on end or letting them loose in the pub etc.

Rant over.

mr_eddy

Also if what YIMan says is true then fine I would be happy to give way to pedestrians etc however I am pretty sure it will say on the same notice that dogs must be kept on a lead ? If they can't be bothered to follow the rules why should I ?

thistle_

mr_eddy wrote:

I do like dogs, I really do but I tend to find most of the dog owners I come across have no idea of discipline. Either letting them run and jump up at me when cycling past or when sitting at the bus stop, "He likes you" well I don't give a toss if he likes me its not acceptable for you to assume that its ok for him to do it. Either that or thinking its fine to bark non stop in the garden for hours on end or letting them loose in the pub etc.

+1

YIMan

mr_eddy wrote:

Also if what YIMan says is true then fine I would be happy to give way to pedestrians etc however I am pretty sure it will say on the same notice that dogs must be kept on a lead ? If they can't be bothered to follow the rules why should I ?

Within the reserve especially during nesting season there are signs to keep dogs on leads but not along the rest of the main riverside route or canal tow paths.

"Breaking rules" because you perceive that others of the multi-use route are breaking rules is not going to get you along the route faster during the day nor remove the hazards you identified....

kingstongraham

mr_eddy wrote:

I once had a go at a dog owner (this time for running loose on a genuine cycle path hucknall road) and he said "you have to expect dogs, there are 14 million dog owners" but by his own admission he failed to understand that this means there are 50-odd million none-dog owners.

I do like dogs, I really do but I tend to find most of the dog owners I come across have no idea of discipline. Either letting them run and jump up at me when cycling past or when sitting at the bus stop, "He likes you" well I don't give a toss if he likes me its not acceptable for you to assume that its ok for him to do it. Either that or thinking its fine to bark non stop in the garden for hours on end or letting them loose in the pub etc.

Rant over.

I love a dog loose in the pub. There's something joyously chaotic about it.

ugo.santalucia

I did cycle along the Grand Union canal from Brentford to Uxbridge for 3 years... my thoughts

1) far more pleasant that any road in London

2) Occasional weirdos, being that drunken/drugged or else around Hayes

3) the bridge in Hayes was a public toilet, I repeatedly complained to the local authority

4) smashed glass pretty much anywhere

5) Dog poops and all sort of rubbish around Southall

6) for a few weeks I cycled a couple of metres away from the body of a young girl hidden under water

Could be better, could be worse, I suppose

Big_Paul

Towpath I'm most familiar with is alongside the Lagan from Lisburn down into central Belfast. As a commuting route, it's crap and the only reason it's popular is because the main A1 is a bloody deathtrap.

It's narrow and badly surfaced and after a couple of days worth of heavy rain it floods and when the waters recede it's inches deep in mud in places. Occasionally you will get a mini peleton going far too fast but by far the worst part is dogs whose owners feel it's perfectly acceptable for some hairy cur to try to remove your leg and if they are on a lead, it's one of those bloody extendable things and it blocks the whole path. Occasionally you'll get some idiot with multiple dogs, the most I've seen was a woman with seven dogs trailing her in whatever direction they chose.

I thought about working in Lisburn and it's only 12 miles but I couldn't deal with that towpath on a daily basis.

samfrohwein

Gripes about terrible dog walkers aside I'm going to agree with the majority of those responding.

Its a small shared pathway not a dedicated cycle super highway. On your bike your bigger and faster than the other users so you should expect to be slowing down and giving way to the push chairs, kids, and old ladies walking there dogs. If your in a rush get on a road.

As for flies dog muck etc. I've allways enjoyed commuting on tow/canal paths round Waley Bridge and New Mills in the Peak Distric. But not when i was in a rush, and I suppose it depends on the area.

bisikletci

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I did cycle along the Grand Union canal from Brentford to Uxbridge for 3 years./quote]

I used to live near that section of the canal and cycle on part of the towpath regularly. The section between Brentford and around Ealing Hospital is really lovely to cycle on (there's also a small but fun network of dirt paths just off the towpath around Hanwell).

I once cycled on past the hospital all the way to Uxbridge, and I can't imagine how you put up with that route for three years - after the hospital almost all of it seemed to be extremely narrow and often a dirty and/or extremely rough and muddy mess. I was really disappointed by the state of it, I had thought it would be a nice route out to the Colne Valley and beyond, but I never bothered with it again after that. A shame as a bit of investment could have made it into a great route out of London.

Probably still true though that it's better than any London road

kevinharley

I use the Leeds-Liverpool Canal towpath (not all of it, clearly ...) into and out of Leeds Centre fairly regularly. It is well-surfaced all the way out to Saltaire (approx. 25km) now and is a really pleasant, and reasonably brisk, alternative to the roads. Its flat-ish, traffic-free and much more scenic than the main road alternatives. It is pretty well-maintained, so no encroaching brambles or nettles, and I rarely find dog poo or broken glass to be a problem (the latter is much more prevalent along the city's urban cycle-paths).

But I accept it is shared use, and occasionally have to slow down for other pedestrians. dogs, children, buggies and other cyclists ... they have as much right to be there in my view, and I'm happy to approach with caution and slow down. A polite call from well back is usually sufficient and people will move to one side and I'll move to the other.

mrfpb

Dog owners are like cyclists - people notice the bad/irresponsible ones and then tar all the others with the same brush.

I don't own a dog but regularly walk a well trained one. Dogs need to be off the lead in order to get the exercise they need. As I said earlier I no longer walk the dog along the canal as there is not much wiggle room when we meet a bike, so I'm constantly calling the dog to heel.

Dogs need space - they don't get that on a canal path.

FishFish

I go in the Thetford forest daily and there are no problems with cyclists at all because it is a dedicated area for biking. On the fringes it is private land with rights of way on the tracks. I am very alert to the fact that at certain times of the day there are dangerous dogs on the loose because the owners realise this and chose to exercise them early in the morning. You get the dog crp too and in the fenced areas dogs which are clearly in charge of the owners rather than the other way round. Not been attacked yet because I'm very alert and I too like dogs but can't stand untrained animals.

redjeepǃ

I run or cycle almost daily along my local canal (the Royal Canal in Ireland) and in fairness have never seen any instance where there was a problem between pedestrians, dog walkers, runners or cyclists. I've also never heard of anything.

I find that 9 times out of 10 dog owners call their dogs to heel and often put them on their leads on when they see me. I always thank them as I go past.

When I'm cycling I'm always conscious of other people and slow right down as I pass them. I figure that if you're going along the canal you're not exactly racing and that they have as much right to be there as I do. Again I always try to acknowledge people as I go past as I figure it helps avoid the 'miserable cyclist/ runner tried to run us over' type of complaints.

Funnily enough I was cycling yesterday with a friend along a greenway (not a towpath) and we came across a young couple on bikes going slowly in the same direction and taking up the width of the path. We slowed down behind them and tried to let them know we were there, but they clearly couldn't hear us. When we finally did get to overtake they were both wearing Dr Beats headphones under their hoodies. Completely oblivious.

FishFish

How did you know they were Dr Beats - could have been Sennheiser or Sony or Orange?