Gearing

figbat

10 days in as a road rider, with one 20-miler under my belt. It all went off OK and I was at least top half on Strava segments, which is my minimum expectation for now. One thing I came across though that I could do with advice on. I have an MTB with 3x9 gearing and on the small-ring/large-cog could climb a wall, albeit slowly. However on a couple of small climbs on my road bike I found myself in the lowest gear and pushing the lever for more. One particular climb is only short and not that steep and I ran out of gears. I had to stand in the pedals to maintain any forward speed and made it up, but find this kind of pedalling really tiring.

So, do I go for a shorter gearing (either extra teeth at the back or a smaller chain ring), or keep climbing hills to get better at it? If I'm honest it was a bit of a surprise because on the MTB I'll happily do some long climbs, often with gears to spare and without needing to get out of the saddle too much.

Current set-up is 12-25 10-speed on the back, 34-50 on the front.

germcevoy

25 at the back is small by today's standards. Going to a 28 should make a chunk of difference without disrupting the gaps between gears too much. Shpuldn't cost much more than £20 to try it. Much cheaper than changing the chainrings up front. You would have to switch to a triple if wanting something smaller than a 34 up front.

fat daddy

Heh ... I have done the same gone from silly climbing mtb's and a hybrid with 32t on the back to a 34 front and 12-25 on the back .... Cor that's hard work

Haven't decided whether to change to 28t though, I could save a few g and climb easier .... But sticking with 25t I am working my quads something chronic and my strava times are better as I have to climb standing

kajjal

I use an 11-32 cassette and even on slow days it lets me get up hills easily enough with 50/34 at the front. Check which cassettes your rear mech will take, I used to have a 12-30 on a previous road bike and that was also fine.

I came from mountain biking and found it strange how some road cyclists see having a tougher cassette as a badge of honour. Just choose what works best for you.

fat daddy

The only thing I don't like about the 11-32 is the obvious gap between gears, turn a corner and be hit by wind and have to drop a gear you end up having to slow down considerably, where as the closer ratio between 12-25 allows you to keep your speed better and stay in the power zone ..... I guess that's why 11speed cassettes work so well ... 1 more gear to keep the closer ratio

meanredspider

You can probably get away with a 30 cassette on Shimano 10-sp without needing to change the rear derailleur. There's absolutely nothing wrong with needing the gears. With 10-sp Shimano, you can also get 3rd party 33T rings for the cranks if you need it. As you get fitter, you'll find you don't need to drop gears quite so much but it never does any harm to have a gear if you need it.

ForumNewbie

On my best road bike, I changed from an 11-28 to a 12-30 at the back to give me a lower gear as my other bikes have triples. A lot of new sportive type bikes now have an 11-32 at the back, so I would suggest going for as low a gear as you can. You might be able to eventually climb that hill a bit easier on your 25, but it is better to spin up at a higher cadence in a lower gear. Bear in mind that with a 30 or 32 at the back you will probably need to change the rear derailleur as well like I had to do, but I think it was well worth it.

markhewitt1978

I like my 12-30 (10 speed) setup. It gives a low gear without it being ridiculously low, and I never want to go faster than 50-12 allows. It does put me off upgrading to 11 speed that there's no 12-30 or 12-32 option.

drlodge

28T, 30T, 32T, 34T...? You all need to move to Campag, 12-29 as standard, just the perfect all round 11sp cassette with a great set of ratios.

Midlands Grimpeur

It also depends on what you end goal is. If your aim is to become a strong climber and regularly ride routes that tackle a lot of hills, eventually you are going to have to push your body to adapt which will mean harder efforts in bigger gears.

Like most of the above have stated, for the time being get yourself a bigger cassette at the back and get used to climbing up hills whilst seated. Once you start to improve over the next few months start to experiment with your gears and cadence and see what works best for you.

markhewitt1978

drlodge wrote:

28T, 30T, 32T, 34T...? You all need to move to Campag, 12-29 as standard, just the perfect all round 11sp cassette with a great set of ratios.

Campag cassettes will work with Shimano groups won't they?

figbat

I'm never going to be a full-on hill climber, I would just like to be able to take on a social road route without fearing having to get off and walk! At the moment I am just riding home from work (luckily I work in the same place as my wife, so we travel in together in the car with the bike on the roof and I ride home in the evening, around 20 miles with options for longer routes). I have booked a road ride with UK Cycling Events in September - just the middle distance one but there are some climbs involved (this is South Oxon/West Berks, so nothing mountainous). After that I suspect it'll be more commuting and more similar ride-outs. I am not looking for club riding right now and not sure I will, but you never know where the interest will take you - I could go full-on shaven legged or I could sell up and go back to MTB-only.

For the riding home though I will always be looking to go faster over Strava segments - no KOM stuff but PRs. I think I am convinced to get a shorter cassette for now, thinking I can always put the longer one back on as/when I get faster/stronger.

I have Shimano 105 5700 front and rear mechs at the moment; some research suggests the rear mech will take a 27 or 28 tooth cassette but I guess I may need a longer chain - I notice that when on large-to-large (I know, I know!) the rear mech is pretty stretched forward.

keef66

You should be able to run a 30t cassette with a 5700 rear mech. Sounds like you might need a longer chain though.

You need to practice climbing out of the saddle; I found it really tiring to start with, but now I can do it for as long as necessary. Oddly my upper body is the first to complain...

It does get easier.

markhewitt1978

Can confirm 5700 will take a 12-30 cassette.

daniel_b

markhewitt1978 wrote:

drlodge wrote:

28T, 30T, 32T, 34T...? You all need to move to Campag, 12-29 as standard, just the perfect all round 11sp cassette with a great set of ratios.

Campag cassettes will work with Shimano groups won't they?

Yes, but you'll need a Campag compatible wheel\freehub no?

Who makes a 12-30 anyway, a quick google turned up not very much.

Frustratingly, looks like it was available in Ultegra 10spd, but not in 11!

Found these - any good?
http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Miche-Primato-11x-Shimano-Cassette_92247.htm

Apologies, I am aware the OP has a 10spd setup, so excuse the partial hijack.

drlodge

Yep, Campag cassette requires a Campag freehub/wheel.

Don't under estimate the difference a couple of extra teeth will make on the cassette. I used to run 12-27T then changed to 12-29T. Allows me to keep my cadence a bit higher which makes the climb easier on the legs and can keep going for longer.

Changing from 25T to 28T will make a big difference.

supermurph09

You state you have been riding for 10 days and struggling to get up a hill? This is to be expected, the point to note here is that you obviously made it up but had to stand (not actually seeing why that is a problem tbh) to crest the climb.

Sounds like you have a decent fitness level already (probably from your MTB), so I would honestly not think about going to a 30 at the back or even a 32 at more expense. I'd personally go for the 28, you can pick those up very cheaply, 105 or even Ultegra will do you just fine. If you carry on with the cycling you'll probably find you are going up that same hill in the 23 or 25 in no time.

I can consider myself a solid climber now, (50/34) (12/25), when I started out I had a 12-30, first 2 rides I attempted to get up a short 0.1 mile 10% average (13% max) climb and had to get off. This was for 2 reasons, not enough fitness and rubbish pacing. I then made it up in 1m 17s, fast forward a few years I'm now doing it 42s, I could probably lower that to 40s so almost half the time of the first attempt.

If it's hindering your enjoyment or no sign of your legs improving then sure go for the 32, but ime don't bother doing it now. Think of the sense of achievement.

figbat

Thanks for all the input. I was only thinking of going to a 27 or 28. I'd say I was moderately fit but have found the transition to road harder than I thought. But that's part of the challenge, to get fitter and learn new technique.

Watching the road races on telly I noticed that there was a lot of out-of-the-saddle going on, so it seems to be a thing I need to get more comfortable with. If that's the case, so be it.

ForumNewbie

Supermurph09 wrote:

You state you have been riding for 10 days and struggling to get up a hill? This is to be expected, the point to note here is that you obviously made it up but had to stand (not actually seeing why that is a problem tbh) to crest the climb.

Sounds like you have a decent fitness level already (probably from your MTB), so I would honestly not think about going to a 30 at the back or even a 32 at more expense. I'd personally go for the 28, you can pick those up very cheaply, 105 or even Ultegra will do you just fine. If you carry on with the cycling you'll probably find you are going up that same hill in the 23 or 25 in no time.

I can consider myself a solid climber now, (50/34) (12/25), when I started out I had a 12-30, first 2 rides I attempted to get up a short 0.1 mile 10% average (13% max) climb and had to get off. This was for 2 reasons, not enough fitness and rubbish pacing. I then made it up in 1m 17s, fast forward a few years I'm now doing it 42s, I could probably lower that to 40s so almost half the time of the first attempt.

That's fair enough, but if you did it at the end of a long ride it might be a bit easier to do that hill on a 34/28 or 34/30 at the same speed with a higher cadence.

There are times when the OP is likely to come across longer steep hills, where he is likely to be grateful for the lower gears. There is a really tough hill near me that is 1.4 miles averaging 9.2% with sections at over 20%. It is still a struggle on 34/30 for me, but at least it makes it possible.

step83

figbat wrote:

Thanks for all the input. I was only thinking of going to a 27 or 28. I'd say I was moderately fit but have found the transition to road harder than I thought. But that's part of the challenge, to get fitter and learn new technique.

Watching the road races on telly I noticed that there was a lot of out-of-the-saddle going on, so it seems to be a thing I need to get more comfortable with. If that's the case, so be it.

Out of the saddle is great for short spurts or to kick you into a higher gear its not really ideal for long efforts.
knocking up to a 28-30 rear will make a big difference. I wouldn't bin off your old cassette though as you get fitter you may well find it handy as a training set. If not give it a clean an bung it up for sale somewhere.

supermurph09

ForumNewbie wrote:

Supermurph09 wrote:

You state you have been riding for 10 days and struggling to get up a hill? This is to be expected, the point to note here is that you obviously made it up but had to stand (not actually seeing why that is a problem tbh) to crest the climb.

Sounds like you have a decent fitness level already (probably from your MTB), so I would honestly not think about going to a 30 at the back or even a 32 at more expense. I'd personally go for the 28, you can pick those up very cheaply, 105 or even Ultegra will do you just fine. If you carry on with the cycling you'll probably find you are going up that same hill in the 23 or 25 in no time.

I can consider myself a solid climber now, (50/34) (12/25), when I started out I had a 12-30, first 2 rides I attempted to get up a short 0.1 mile 10% average (13% max) climb and had to get off. This was for 2 reasons, not enough fitness and rubbish pacing. I then made it up in 1m 17s, fast forward a few years I'm now doing it 42s, I could probably lower that to 40s so almost half the time of the first attempt.

That's fair enough, but if you did it at the end of a long ride it might be a bit easier to do that hill on a 34/28 or 34/30 at the same speed with a higher cadence.

There are times when the OP is likely to come across longer steep hills, where he is likely to be grateful for the lower gears. There is a really tough hill near me that is 1.4 miles averaging 9.2% with sections at over 20%. It is still a struggle on 34/30 for me, but at least it makes it possible.

Not sure I agree, but I guess we are all different. I think people defeat themselves before attempting some climbs, it's often the mental struggle that's the decider.

ForumNewbie

Supermurph09 wrote:

ForumNewbie wrote:

Supermurph09 wrote:

You state you have been riding for 10 days and struggling to get up a hill? This is to be expected, the point to note here is that you obviously made it up but had to stand (not actually seeing why that is a problem tbh) to crest the climb.

Sounds like you have a decent fitness level already (probably from your MTB), so I would honestly not think about going to a 30 at the back or even a 32 at more expense. I'd personally go for the 28, you can pick those up very cheaply, 105 or even Ultegra will do you just fine. If you carry on with the cycling you'll probably find you are going up that same hill in the 23 or 25 in no time.

I can consider myself a solid climber now, (50/34) (12/25), when I started out I had a 12-30, first 2 rides I attempted to get up a short 0.1 mile 10% average (13% max) climb and had to get off. This was for 2 reasons, not enough fitness and rubbish pacing. I then made it up in 1m 17s, fast forward a few years I'm now doing it 42s, I could probably lower that to 40s so almost half the time of the first attempt.

That's fair enough, but if you did it at the end of a long ride it might be a bit easier to do that hill on a 34/28 or 34/30 at the same speed with a higher cadence.

There are times when the OP is likely to come across longer steep hills, where he is likely to be grateful for the lower gears. There is a really tough hill near me that is 1.4 miles averaging 9.2% with sections at over 20%. It is still a struggle on 34/30 for me, but at least it makes it possible.

Not sure I agree, but I guess we are all different. I think people defeat themselves before attempting some climbs, it's often the mental struggle that's the decider.

Yes, we are all different. I'm in my late 50s and not as fit as I would like to be so that might be a factor. But even top pros have been known to go for a 34/28 lowest gear for some races with really steep climbs, as spinning up a hill will be less tiring than grinding up in a bigger gear.

webboo

When I first started cycling many years ago, my first bike a Carlton pro am came with what was considered low gears in those days 52 x 42 with a 13 to 24 block.
I would attempt hills sitting down changing into a lower and lower gear the longer the hill went till I would end up out of the saddle in 42 x 24 gasping for all I was worth.
I then went out with a club and was advised don't go so low and stand up early, which seemed to work.
Changing in to a lower gear when you are already at aerobic capacity won't make you feel like you've got wings.

drlodge

I used to have a Raleigh RoadAce with 52/42 and 13-21, wondered why I was always in the smaller chainring and struggled up hills.

figbat

Update (because I know you have been on tenterhooks).

Yesterday was my birthday. By way of a gift, today my wife took me to the LBS nearest where we work to get a saddle fitted (it turns out that despite any comments I may have received, my backside is quite average). Anyway, Friday is ride home from work day so we had the bike on the roof of the car. They offered to fit the saddle and whilst it was on the workshop stand I mentioned I would like a shorter-geared cassette. BOOM! The wife authorises a new cassette and chain, so a Shimano 105 11-28 goes on there along with the saddle.

Tonight I rode home from work along my normal route (as normal as a third ride can get). I hit Strava PRs on almost every segment and wasn't trying on all of them. In particular the climb that had made me look for a shorter cassette... 40s quicker than the previous 4:40 PR. And it felt it. It wasn't easy, but I felt I could stay on top of the gear and get into it whether in the saddle or out of it (rather than feeling like I was struggling to maintain forward momentum). As a scientist I know that one result in three is not what you'd call conclusive proof, and there are numerous other variables that could come into play, but it is certainly promising.

And the saddle was much better too (and looks much prettier).

jgsi

tbh I have no idea what gearing I had on as a teenage kid on my parent's hard earned wages spent on a pug racer for me... all I know now that 50 odd years later with modern tech, you re SUPPOSED to be a lot quicker, especially up grades.
Old habits die hard though... my inbuilt cadence for timetrial efforts is still 60 to 70 with a teenage gear inch.
I allow myself a slightly quicker cadence for road races.
You have long time to get used to things cycling...