A few questions about wheels...

jpu12

I'm looking to upgrade my wheels but after some research I'm a bit confused. The initial research had me targeting a mid-depth carbon wheel with alloy rims. That said, I've seen no data to quantify how much the Alloy adds in braking control or wheel longevity. Thus, my questions are:

1-I've read that carbon wheels are worse in wet weather but that "new carbon wheels are improbing massively". How big is the performance difference on current generation wheels? If I don't have any notable hills in my area, should I even be concerned?

2-I've also read that carbon wheels wear out more quickly. Does anyone have an idea how long one should expect a set of wheels to last? 5000 vs 20000 km is a very different value prop.

Thanks, really looking forward to hearing the groups advice.

keef66

Anything actually wrong with the wheels you already have?

What are you hoping to achieve by replacing your wheels? Lighter weight? Aero benefits? That cool sound that carbon wheels make? Better / pro looking bike?

With appropriate brake blocks, braking on carbon rims is better than it used to be, but it still isn't as good as alloy, especially in the wet. Both wear out if you do a lot of braking, again especially in the wet. A carbon rim with an alloy brake track is a reasonable compromise, but some might say it's the worst of both worlds.

If you don't have hills and don't plan to do all-weather start-stop commuting on them, they'll last for years.

jpu12

I don't usually use this bike for my commute, though I don't let crappy weather stop me from going out when I'm in the mood for a ride either. The primary objective of the upgrade is Aero -- I've got two nice little 60 and 100 km circuits I like to ride frequently on my own, and I want to improve my times. I know the best path to do so is improving the rider, but a fun ride keeps me going out more often. No racing planned -- this is purely about maxing out the enjoyment of the rides I get on my own.

This set will be the one and only that I ride, so I'm assuming I don't want too deep a rim (i.e. over 50 mm). The alloy brake surface seems to be limiting me to a handful of choices in the price range I was looking at: C35, C50, Campagnolo Bullets or Red Winds. All potentially good/great rims, but those 4 are the current options because of the perceived risks of Carbon. If Carbon's not a big risk, I might make a very different choice.

Midlands Grimpeur

Carbon clinchers (full carbon wheel with carbon brake track) have seen the biggest improvements in recent years, both in terms of construction/durability and braking performance. As a result I think carbon rims with alloy brake tracks are pretty redundant now.

Braking in the wet is not as good as alloy but isn't far behind and they will be fine on hills as long as you are not constantly hard braking or grabbing at the brakes (same is true for alloy though!). As long as you keep them well maintained and don't hammer the breaks they will last you years.

If your main goal is aero/speed then bear in mind that the aero benefit only really kicks in at speeds above 17/18 mph. If your 60km loop is taking you longer than 2:15 then you won't get much aero benefit. Having said that I ride mine all the time, from 15mph cafe rides to chain gangs and I enjoy them just as much across any application.

jpu12

Avg moving speed on the 60km circuit is 17.5mph/28 kmph, however that's knocked down by the stops and starts in the city. Typical avg outside the city is ~20 mph/32 kmph --- so it sounds like I'd just barely be in the range where Aero adds value.

Midlands Grimpeur

At those speeds you would still get some benefit. Take into account that you will, I am sure, have stretches of the route with flat sections where you may well be hitting up to 40kmh (and more if there are downhill sections) so you'll get even more benefit there. If you decided to go for a pair then a deeper rim profile would be better, say 50mm, you won't get any real aero advantage from 35mm rims under 18/19 mph.

Anonymous

Id say go for it.

If the weather is atrocious and you want to go out it takes about 10 mins to swap wheels and brake pads.

Carbon wheels with alu brake tracks also look pretty rubbish. Full carbon looks much nicer IMO.

drlodge

Agree with all the above, carbon brake tracks and blocks are a lot better these days.

I've just bought myself a pair of BORG 50 tubeless from The Cycle Clinic, I reckon what you need is pretty much the same and these are as close to "all round" use carbon wheels with some aero benefit as you're likely to get.

antfly

Braking might be ok on most carbon rims most of the time,until you have to stop at a junction in the wet on a steep hill, then you might wish you had an alloy braking surface, in spite of the extra few grammes. The new all carbon Mavic wheels have reputedly raised the bar for braking in the wet for those that prefer not to compromise, but they aren't cheap. Also, be sure you have enough clearance for the wider carbon rims.

cycleclinic

how long carbon rim last depends on the brake track resins and the pads used. Some combination last longer than others. Mine have 13000km on them now and while the resin looks worn on the front rim the braking is still fine. They get used in all weathers from feb to nov. In contrast none of my alloy rims have ever made it that far. 3000-5000 miles is normal for me. I dont even brake alot it is just the wet weather grinding paste that gets to work on my rims and it is always the front. The rear last 10,000 miles.

so you can read all you want it will not illuminate but it will confuse. for example on braking in the wet, it depends on rim and pad combinations. For the wheels I have, I have tried various pads. Some where shocking and left residue all over the rim and evaporated in the wet. I remember one set on a damp ride that were practically gone by the end of 100 miles with a smell of burning to boot. This is what I mean by reviews e.t.c confusing more than illuminate as the comminatotor may not have been using the right pads for the rim. As I have found the right pads are not always the ones recommended by the manufacturer.

so you simply have to take the plunge if you want carbon rims and many these days have brake tracks that brake as well as alloy rims but with the right pads. That requires reliable recommendation for users of the rims.

Beware of reviews or comment that give blanket statements. They are not illuminating.

Anonymous

Agree. Buy carbon rims, give them a try, understand their advantages and better, experience their limitations. As CC said, they all react differently to construction, materials and pads. I've been too steep in Wales and Cornwall on my carbon rims but smashed it around at 40mph on longer smoother descents.

Good for handling skills and generally being more alert about what's upcoming.

mugensi

I was in a similar position a few weeks ago and having reviewed and read countless threads/reviews on various wheels, I eventually plumped for Fulcrum Quattro Carbons. I've only had them a week now and been on two spins, one quite windy and the other a 100km weekend club ride.

Theyre 40mm deep and so strike a happy medium IMO. I weighed mine (without QR's) on digital kitchen scales at 1482g which is plenty light for a carbon clincher. They spin up to speed nicely and maintaining speed above 30km/h definitely requires less effort. I previously had Zondas and the Quattros climb as easily as they do, if not easier. I was out at the weekend on a 40km spin and it was quite stormy with average wind speed of 45km/h with heavier gusts at times. The wheels did not cause any problems at all and only once did I fond myself steered off course but it was minor and easily managed. I coupled them with Michelin latex tubes and GP4000 25mm tyres and the ride is sublime on them. They really soak up roughness on roads and soften the ride without compromising handling. Theyre stif without being in any way harsh. The braking with the supplied red pads (campagnolo) is excellent in the dry. I haven't tried them in the wet and have a wet weather/winter bike for wet days but no doubt I'll get caught in rain at some stage and get a chance to try them out.

Overall I'm delighted with them, theyre lightweight (Zipp 303's are 1640g without rim tape and the Quattros don't require rim tape so theres close to 200g in weight difference) Theyre look superb and make a lovely hum on the road. The freewheel is quiet (not silent) and they were 100% true/straight out of the box. I got mine from PBK for £805 (with a £25 first order discount) I highly recommend them for anyone looking for a do it all full carbon wheelset.

PTestTeam

jpu12 wrote:

I'm looking to upgrade my wheels but after some research I'm a bit confused. The initial research had me targeting a mid-depth carbon wheel with alloy rims. That said, I've seen no data to quantify how much the Alloy adds in braking control or wheel longevity. Thus, my questions are:

1-I've read that carbon wheels are worse in wet weather but that "new carbon wheels are improbing massively". How big is the performance difference on current generation wheels? If I don't have any notable hills in my area, should I even be concerned?

2-I've also read that carbon wheels wear out more quickly. Does anyone have an idea how long one should expect a set of wheels to last? 5000 vs 20000 km is a very different value prop.

Thanks, really looking forward to hearing the groups advice.

Miche are running a Wheel Test Programme using their highly regarded SWR RC carbon clinchers. Why not try a pair out and see if you like the braking performance? For what it's worth, I have a pair and the braking is very good if you use Swiss Stop Black Prince pads.

https://www.micheuk.com/52/en/wheel-test-program

stueys

Agree with what everyone has said. I run a set of enve 4.5, bought last year missed the very latest brake track, and the braking is manageable in the wet but it's a long way away from dry performance. You essentially need to modify your riding if it's wet. In the dry the performance is fine, it's not alloy performance but it's not that far away.

You'll get a performance increase from the depth, at your speed it will be noticeable. I also find the depth of the wheel adds stiffness which also improves things. I love the wheels but I wouldn't buy assuming wet weather performance is like alloy, it's not.

keef66

PTestTeam wrote:

Miche are running a Wheel Test Programme using their highly regarded SWR RC carbon clinchers. Why not try a pair out and see if you like the braking performance? For what it's worth, I have a pair and the braking is very good if you use Swiss Stop Black Prince pads.

https://www.micheuk.com/52/en/wheel-test-program

I got excited when I clicked on that link till I realised the test centre a mile from home is the LBS that went bust earlier this year!

PTestTeam

keef66 wrote:

PTestTeam wrote:

Miche are running a Wheel Test Programme using their highly regarded SWR RC carbon clinchers. Why not try a pair out and see if you like the braking performance? For what it's worth, I have a pair and the braking is very good if you use Swiss Stop Black Prince pads.

https://www.micheuk.com/52/en/wheel-test-program

I got excited when I clicked on that link till I realised the test centre a mile from home is the LBS that went bust earlier this year!

Which LBS is that?