Frameset or fork?

iPete
iPete Posts: 6,076
edited August 2016 in Commuting chat
Who better to ask than commuters, it's Friday! Frameset or fork?

Want to reduce the weight of my racing bike. 'It's not about the bike' you scream, lies! Have some ideas..

Do nothing: CAAD 8 frameset, 1241g + 676g = 1.9kg
Swap frameset: Viner Mitus 0.6, 900g + 360g = 1.36kg
New fork: CAAD8 with Columbus Minimal fork, 1241g + 360g = 1.6kg

Open to other frame/fork ideas; ideally with a BSA BB, lighter, racey and nicely under a grand.
Trek Emonda ALR/CAAD12 with BB adapters(*sigh*) have also come up.

Comments

  • You could buy this brand new Wilier frameset from me 1.6kg. Racey, light and Italian :)

    https://www.bikesoup.com/bike/5794a0840 ... agnolo-sha

    http://www.wilier.com/en/products/int/road/gtr
  • dhope
    dhope Posts: 6,699
    Canyon Ultimate AL SLX for £599 (using their sponsorship page)
    1.5kg (1220g + 295g)
    https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/ultim ... meset.html
    https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/service/sponsoring/

    Or Ultimate CF SL for £1k
    1.2kg (940g + 295g)
    https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/ultim ... nical.html


    Think I'd go for a lighter fork and leave the frame as is. Is a Viner really a Viner anymore? PX just put different paintjobs on the same frames right? Does it have the pedigree of either Cannondale or Canyon
    (It might, I'm not sure. Genuinely asking the question)
    Rose Xeon CW Disc
    CAAD12 Disc
    Condor Tempo
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    Personally I'd discount the idea of looking for a lightweight frame with a BSA BB - by the nature of it with a CF frame it means they're adding a lump of metal to the bottom for the BSA BB's to screw into (and then limiting yourself to BBs that will be somewhat heavier).

    With PF 86 the only metal parts are the race and bearings (and with a fully ceramic BB not even that....)

    I mean yes, we're talking grams, but you're the one who brought weight into this....
  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    dhope wrote:
    Think I'd go for a lighter fork and leave the frame as is. Is a Viner really a Viner anymore? PX just put different paintjobs on the same frames right? Does it have the pedigree of either Cannondale or Canyon
    (It might, I'm not sure. Genuinely asking the question)

    I'll check out the Canyons, the Ultimate CF looks decent but I really just want an Aeroad! :mrgreen:
    You're right, there is zero pedigree in the Viner. It was sold last year as the RT90 and is a HongFu FM066SL frameset, PX just own the name now. They apparently have pro teams racing on them, so can't be bad.

    I'm wanting to save weight as I tend to score points on lumpy races with uphill finishes. Pedigree is low on the priority list.
    TimothyW wrote:
    Personally I'd discount the idea of looking for a lightweight frame with a BSA BB - by the nature of it with a CF frame it means they're adding a lump of metal to the bottom for the BSA BB's to screw into (and then limiting yourself to BBs that will be somewhat heavier).

    With PF 86 the only metal parts are the race and bearings (and with a fully ceramic BB not even that....)

    I mean yes, we're talking grams, but you're the one who brought weight into this....

    I'll take a look. It's just that I build up my bikes and have the tools to deal with BSA and have all the parts already. Other standards are just an unknown and perhaps are not as difficult as I'm thinking. New tools or having shops do the work adds to the total cost.

    edit: fun reading ahoy.. :?
    http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/c ... ets-36660/
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,301
    A full carbon fork seems the most sensible and reasonably priced upgrade... Columbus is a safe bet... your frame is already light
    left the forum March 2023
  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    I think you're right. A few other items need replacing, a perfect excuse for a refresh and a few lighter updates for a lot less money.
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    A full carbon fork seems the most sensible and reasonably priced upgrade... Columbus is a safe bet... your frame is already light
    Yeah, certainly makes a lot more sense than buying the Canyon Alu frame to achieve much the same weight as the fork upgrade would.

    The one caveat is that it might be harder to find a high end frame for sale without fork down the line, so sooner or later it might end up as a sunk cost.
  • mamil314
    mamil314 Posts: 1,103
    Thanks for that link, iPete; This would seem to answer why putting Red22 crank into CAAD10 BB30 leaves me with about 3 mm gap on non-drive side, through which spindle is visible - I am, probably, trying to squeeze BB30A crank into BB30 shell.
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,062
    iPete wrote:
    Who better to ask than commuters, it's Friday! Frameset or fork?

    Want to reduce the weight of my racing bike. 'It's not about the bike' you scream, lies! Have some ideas..

    Do nothing: CAAD 8 frameset, 1241g + 676g = 1.9kg
    Swap frameset: Viner Mitus 0.6, 900g + 360g = 1.36kg
    New fork: CAAD8 with Columbus Minimal fork, 1241g + 360g = 1.6kg

    Open to other frame/fork ideas; ideally with a BSA BB, lighter, racey and nicely under a grand.
    Trek Emonda ALR/CAAD12 with BB adapters(*sigh*) have also come up.

    that Viner mitus is a serious rip off copy of cervelo R5
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,608
    For a zero cost weight saving of another 100 grams or so, strip all the paint off the CAAD frame and polish it up. I did that with this one...


    5484755923_25b8434edc_b.jpg
    Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,062
    why not ditch the chain tensioner that must be +100g plus the bottle cage and all those heavy unused bolts.

    ;-P
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    TimothyW wrote:
    A full carbon fork seems the most sensible and reasonably priced upgrade... Columbus is a safe bet... your frame is already light
    Yeah, certainly makes a lot more sense than buying the Canyon Alu frame to achieve much the same weight as the fork upgrade would.

    The one caveat is that it might be harder to find a high end frame for sale without fork down the line, so sooner or later it might end up as a sunk cost.

    Exactly, trying to factor in future bike itches.
    Saying that, have spent the last few months getting the fit right on this (despite owning it 3 years/ 15.5k miles!), best not to start again when it's nearly there. I know a fractionally longer steerer tube will help with that too.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,301
    iPete wrote:
    TimothyW wrote:
    A full carbon fork seems the most sensible and reasonably priced upgrade... Columbus is a safe bet... your frame is already light
    Yeah, certainly makes a lot more sense than buying the Canyon Alu frame to achieve much the same weight as the fork upgrade would.

    The one caveat is that it might be harder to find a high end frame for sale without fork down the line, so sooner or later it might end up as a sunk cost.

    Exactly, trying to factor in future bike itches.
    Saying that, have spent the last few months getting the fit right on this (despite owning it 3 years/ 15.5k miles!), best not to start again when it's nearly there. I know a fractionally longer steerer tube will help with that too.

    It seems a non issue... you sell the frame, you sell the fork, what's the problem with that? Besides, forks for rim brakes are cheap, I would assume you can get one for under 100 quid these days... forks for disc, that's a different story, you need a mortgage for one
    left the forum March 2023
  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    Still after an Enve 2.0 disc fork?

    Decision made, need to go measure the rake now and get my head around headset types, non-intergrated and all these new words.

    The bearings sit inside the frame, not sure if that makes any difference for such a fork:
    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/columbus-minimal-road-forks/
  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,608
    iPete wrote:
    Still after an Enve 2.0 disc fork?

    Decision made, need to go measure the rake now and get my head around headset types, non-intergrated and all these new words.

    The bearings sit inside the frame, not sure if that makes any difference for such a fork:
    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/columbus-minimal-road-forks/
    That fork is "non-integrated", which won't suit the frame I think. Could be wrong, but I think there's generally something slightly different around the crown that means they won't fit properly. I think forks designed for integrated headsets are an exact diameter at the crown to match the frame tube diameter. Other non integrated ones where you have an external bearing cup it doesn't matter so much.

    I used a Look on mine above, picked up second hand quite cheap and it was excellent, with the exception of a lot of fiddling to get the headset to play nice. Look have a proprietary design for the top cap assembly which is unlike others...


    This should fit, in a straight steerer tube:
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/en/3t-funda-pro-forks-2015/rp-prod55155

    Or this:

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/en/lynskey-pro-carbon-road-fork-2016/rp-prod115097

    Both dearer than the Columbus though. You need to check the rake exactly, to make sure the handling doesn't go weird if you fit something else.

    The Easton EC90SL* forks are good too...
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Easton-EC90-SLX-Carbon-fork-forks-1-1-8-/331918740380?hash=item4d47e60b9c:g:CVsAAOSwSv1Xlkza
    Finishes soon!
    Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS
  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,608
    itboffin wrote:
    why not ditch the chain tensioner that must be +100g plus the bottle cage and all those heavy unused bolts.

    ;-P

    Actually that pic was in it's heaviest incarnation.. I did bin the tensioner once I found the magic gear combo for chain length, swapped the wheels for a set of low profile FFWD carbon tubs, wheel set weighed 1080 grams without tyres, put a full carbon saddle on, and for a little while had a Super Record Titanium spindle crank installed instead of the alloy Record one there.

    Size 58 frame, fully built as above weighed 6.9 kg including pedals.
    Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS
  • Wilier still for sale. It's super light

    https://www.bikesoup.com/bike/5794a0840 ... agnolo-sha
  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    Try the classifieds here, not after a new bike.
    iPete wrote:
    Still after an Enve 2.0 disc fork?

    Decision made, need to go measure the rake now and get my head around headset types, non-intergrated and all these new words.

    The bearings sit inside the frame, not sure if that makes any difference for such a fork:
    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/columbus-minimal-road-forks/
    That fork is "non-integrated", which won't suit the frame I think. Could be wrong, but I think there's generally something slightly different around the crown that means they won't fit properly. I think forks designed for integrated headsets are an exact diameter at the crown to match the frame tube diameter. Other non integrated ones where you have an external bearing cup it doesn't matter so much.

    Thanks for the info, shame really! The others are pricey enough that the Viner frameset would make more sense (£300 fork vs £500 frameset)! Not that I'm in a rush and can wait for a deal. Better go measure the steerer needed.. the rake is apparently 45 too.

    There is a PX option but not sure how stiff given the frameset doesn't have great reputation:
    http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FOPXPCR2/p ... -road-fork

    Did some weight weenie research, it's not a a cheap hobby :lol:

    Rear Wheel: Swap out the 32h Powertap SL+ for a 24h Powertap GS on an Archetype rim = 200g/£450
    Cockpit: Deda Carbon Bars/Allu Stem = 121g/£200
    Inner tubes: 2x Supersonics 94g/£20
    Fork: tbc. = 300g/£250
    Total: 715g/£920*

    *No, I'm not about to go and do this..mostly, well a bit, maybe some!
  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    I was going to ask what wheels you are using.

    Ditch the PT completely. Switch to tubs - you should be able to get down to 1100-1200 g for a wheel set. Get a crankset based PM (Quarq/Power2Max).

    But under no circumstances start googling "drillium".
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

    Bike 1
    Bike 2-A
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,301
    iPete wrote:
    Still after an Enve 2.0 disc fork?

    No, the Ridley X-ride frameset I bought on Ebay for 200 quid came with an awesome full carbon fork... Onyx or whatever it is called, it is really very good... no need to splash on posh American stuff :wink:
    left the forum March 2023
  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    Whilst I've pretty much decided to wait until next year and race on the current spec through Winter..

    Hello Viner Maxima RS 4.0
    http://www.planetx.co.uk/c/q/bikes/road ... axima-rs40

    Frame and fork weight: 1187g
    730g lighter than current but not yet being sold as a frameset only (yet!?).