How much have bikes come on in the past 20 years?

rockmonkeysc

Chicken lines on black trails encourage slower riders on to them. If you need a lot of speed for a line of big jumps and catch a slow rider on the way in it ruins your whole run. Have that happen several times in a day and it's extremely frustrating and makes the features impossible to hit. They may as well flatten the big stuff and make it another blue trail.

ilovedirt

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Chicken lines on black trails encourage slower riders on to them. If you need a lot of speed for a line of big jumps and catch a slow rider on the way in it ruins your whole run. Have that happen several times in a day and it's extremely frustrating and makes the features impossible to hit. They may as well flatten the big stuff and make it another blue trail.

How about riders who want to hit the black run but haven't quite built up the confidence to hit every last feature? I'm sure they don't do it specifically to ruin your (clearly) heroic strava times.

cooldad

I would. Straaaaaaaaaaaaaava.

rockmonkeysc

ilovedirt wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Chicken lines on black trails encourage slower riders on to them. If you need a lot of speed for a line of big jumps and catch a slow rider on the way in it ruins your whole run. Have that happen several times in a day and it's extremely frustrating and makes the features impossible to hit. They may as well flatten the big stuff and make it another blue trail.

How about riders who want to hit the black run but haven't quite built up the confidence to hit every last feature? I'm sure they don't do it specifically to ruin your (clearly) heroic strava times.

You build up to them by riding the red trails.
Black trails should require commitment to ride them, thats why they're graded black.
Getting held up is frustrating when it's been six runs in a row that you've not been able to ride the jump line because people who clearly don't have even close to the competence to ride the trails. If it's a 40 foot gap you often need to ride a long section before correctly to carry the speed you need to be able to clear it.
It's all very well making hard trails accessible but then what is there for riders who enjoy big jumps and committing features?

ilovedirt

RockmonkeySC wrote:

ilovedirt wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Chicken lines on black trails encourage slower riders on to them. If you need a lot of speed for a line of big jumps and catch a slow rider on the way in it ruins your whole run. Have that happen several times in a day and it's extremely frustrating and makes the features impossible to hit. They may as well flatten the big stuff and make it another blue trail.

How about riders who want to hit the black run but haven't quite built up the confidence to hit every last feature? I'm sure they don't do it specifically to ruin your (clearly) heroic strava times.

You build up to them by riding the red trails.
Black trails should require commitment to ride them, thats why they're graded black.
Getting held up is frustrating when it's been six runs in a row that you've not been able to ride the jump line because people who clearly don't have even close to the competence to ride the trails. If it's a 40 foot gap you often need to ride a long section before correctly to carry the speed you need to be able to clear it.
It's all very well making hard trails accessible but then what is there for riders who enjoy big jumps and committing features?

Do you hit every feature the first time you hit a black graded downhill trail? Even in the alps? 30ft road gaps and all?
If so, you and Danny Hart must share some common issues regarding sitting down.
However I'm fairly sure that's not the case...

dogboy73

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Chicken lines on black trails encourage slower riders on to them. If you need a lot of speed for a line of big jumps and catch a slow rider on the way in it ruins your whole run. Have that happen several times in a day and it's extremely frustrating and makes the features impossible to hit. They may as well flatten the big stuff and make it another blue trail.

That's painful. Personally I stay off trails that are beyond my ability. I tried a black run in the wet on a trail centre in south Wales (I don't remember the location now. something Forest I think. It was a good few years back). It was too much. I was off the bike more than on for large sections of the track. Bailed out to a red run at the first opportunity & had much more fun. Most of the black run was fine. But the tricky bits in the wet were no fun at all for me. The red runs are often challenging enough. I'll take on black runs if the trail centre is quiet & conditions fine.

rockmonkeysc

ilovedirt wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

ilovedirt wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Chicken lines on black trails encourage slower riders on to them. If you need a lot of speed for a line of big jumps and catch a slow rider on the way in it ruins your whole run. Have that happen several times in a day and it's extremely frustrating and makes the features impossible to hit. They may as well flatten the big stuff and make it another blue trail.

How about riders who want to hit the black run but haven't quite built up the confidence to hit every last feature? I'm sure they don't do it specifically to ruin your (clearly) heroic strava times.

You build up to them by riding the red trails.
Black trails should require commitment to ride them, thats why they're graded black.
Getting held up is frustrating when it's been six runs in a row that you've not been able to ride the jump line because people who clearly don't have even close to the competence to ride the trails. If it's a 40 foot gap you often need to ride a long section before correctly to carry the speed you need to be able to clear it.
It's all very well making hard trails accessible but then what is there for riders who enjoy big jumps and committing features?

Do you hit every feature the first time you hit a black graded downhill trail? Even in the alps? 30ft road gaps and all?
If so, you and Danny Hart must share some common issues regarding sitting down.
However I'm fairly sure that's not the case...

First time down a trail I'll session the run in to a big feature to assess the speed and when I'm happy I'll hit the jump. Chicken lines don't help you build up to a feature. Getting the run in right or following someone who's done it before are the only ways to attack a jump for the first time.
There are a lot of riders capable of hitting 30 foot gaps blind, most downhill riders I know would be fine with that. Personally, I've had too many injuries to hit them without having a look first. Either way, chicken runs don't help anyone build confidence or ability.

ilovedirt

RockmonkeySC wrote:

ilovedirt wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

ilovedirt wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Chicken lines on black trails encourage slower riders on to them. If you need a lot of speed for a line of big jumps and catch a slow rider on the way in it ruins your whole run. Have that happen several times in a day and it's extremely frustrating and makes the features impossible to hit. They may as well flatten the big stuff and make it another blue trail.

How about riders who want to hit the black run but haven't quite built up the confidence to hit every last feature? I'm sure they don't do it specifically to ruin your (clearly) heroic strava times.

You build up to them by riding the red trails.
Black trails should require commitment to ride them, thats why they're graded black.
Getting held up is frustrating when it's been six runs in a row that you've not been able to ride the jump line because people who clearly don't have even close to the competence to ride the trails. If it's a 40 foot gap you often need to ride a long section before correctly to carry the speed you need to be able to clear it.
It's all very well making hard trails accessible but then what is there for riders who enjoy big jumps and committing features?

Do you hit every feature the first time you hit a black graded downhill trail? Even in the alps? 30ft road gaps and all?
If so, you and Danny Hart must share some common issues regarding sitting down.
However I'm fairly sure that's not the case...

First time down a trail I'll session the run in to a big feature to assess the speed and when I'm happy I'll hit the jump. Chicken lines don't help you build up to a feature. Getting the run in right or following someone who's done it before are the only ways to attack a jump for the first time.
There are a lot of riders capable of hitting 30 foot gaps blind, most downhill riders I know would be fine with that. Personally, I've had too many injuries to hit them without having a look first. Either way, chicken runs don't help anyone build confidence or ability.

I disagree. Sorry we're not all Mountain biking gods like you.

BloggingFit

ilovedirt wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

ilovedirt wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

ilovedirt wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Chicken lines on black trails encourage slower riders on to them. If you need a lot of speed for a line of big jumps and catch a slow rider on the way in it ruins your whole run. Have that happen several times in a day and it's extremely frustrating and makes the features impossible to hit. They may as well flatten the big stuff and make it another blue trail.

How about riders who want to hit the black run but haven't quite built up the confidence to hit every last feature? I'm sure they don't do it specifically to ruin your (clearly) heroic strava times.

You build up to them by riding the red trails.
Black trails should require commitment to ride them, thats why they're graded black.
Getting held up is frustrating when it's been six runs in a row that you've not been able to ride the jump line because people who clearly don't have even close to the competence to ride the trails. If it's a 40 foot gap you often need to ride a long section before correctly to carry the speed you need to be able to clear it.
It's all very well making hard trails accessible but then what is there for riders who enjoy big jumps and committing features?

Do you hit every feature the first time you hit a black graded downhill trail? Even in the alps? 30ft road gaps and all?
If so, you and Danny Hart must share some common issues regarding sitting down.
However I'm fairly sure that's not the case...

First time down a trail I'll session the run in to a big feature to assess the speed and when I'm happy I'll hit the jump. Chicken lines don't help you build up to a feature. Getting the run in right or following someone who's done it before are the only ways to attack a jump for the first time.
There are a lot of riders capable of hitting 30 foot gaps blind, most downhill riders I know would be fine with that. Personally, I've had too many injuries to hit them without having a look first. Either way, chicken runs don't help anyone build confidence or ability.

I disagree. Sorry we're not all Mountain biking gods like you.

I agree with this in that there are riders that will naturally carry enough speed to hot that sort of size jump blind. I also think that following someone with knowledge of the trail and matching their speed there is a good probability that you can make a jump for the first time having checked it out first off. I think most people have the ability to ale a 30ft jump but it's more the psychological aspect or confidence that separates riders.

From my own perspective I know I would have the technical ability to do such a thing but put simply don't really have the balls to attempt something that big. It's a case of trying to be pragmatic and apply rational thought knowing that carrying x amount of speed will see me over the feature. Trying to override the gremlins in my head, the self preservation ones, is the hard part. Some people are hard wired to happily manage this process with no issue while others like myself have a lower point at which the gremlins try to take over.

lostboysaint

ilovedirt wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

ilovedirt wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

ilovedirt wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Chicken lines on black trails encourage slower riders on to them. If you need a lot of speed for a line of big jumps and catch a slow rider on the way in it ruins your whole run. Have that happen several times in a day and it's extremely frustrating and makes the features impossible to hit. They may as well flatten the big stuff and make it another blue trail.

How about riders who want to hit the black run but haven't quite built up the confidence to hit every last feature? I'm sure they don't do it specifically to ruin your (clearly) heroic strava times.

You build up to them by riding the red trails.
Black trails should require commitment to ride them, thats why they're graded black.
Getting held up is frustrating when it's been six runs in a row that you've not been able to ride the jump line because people who clearly don't have even close to the competence to ride the trails. If it's a 40 foot gap you often need to ride a long section before correctly to carry the speed you need to be able to clear it.
It's all very well making hard trails accessible but then what is there for riders who enjoy big jumps and committing features?

Do you hit every feature the first time you hit a black graded downhill trail? Even in the alps? 30ft road gaps and all?
If so, you and Danny Hart must share some common issues regarding sitting down.
However I'm fairly sure that's not the case...

First time down a trail I'll session the run in to a big feature to assess the speed and when I'm happy I'll hit the jump. Chicken lines don't help you build up to a feature. Getting the run in right or following someone who's done it before are the only ways to attack a jump for the first time.
There are a lot of riders capable of hitting 30 foot gaps blind, most downhill riders I know would be fine with that. Personally, I've had too many injuries to hit them without having a look first. Either way, chicken runs don't help anyone build confidence or ability.

I disagree. Sorry we're not all Mountain biking gods like you.

And that's just his point, and why I (a much lesser mortal) agree with him. I don't expect to be able to chicken everything on a black run - I expect to have to work on my technique to be able to ride it, in exactly the same way that I'd approach Double Diamond blacks in Canadian ski resorts or Jaws or T'pu on a surfboard. You shouldn't expect to ride everything.

rockmonkeysc

Big jumps aren't technically difficult, most of the time the tricky bit is carrying the speed through the corner before.
It's all about building up from smaller and doing it regularly. After a while it you just don't think about it.
The biggest jump I've done was 40 foot and to be perfectly honest, I just followed someone in and trusted their judgement.
The difference with really good riders is that they can clear big jumps with much less speed meaning they can gap stuff which someone like me could never clear and would have to roll.

kirby700

Suspension quality and geometry are the big differences for me. My 1991 Trek 930 felt awesome at the time with its elastomer fork and steel frame but bu today's standards bloody frightening. Even my 2008 Giant Xtc hasn't been touched for years as it just feels do damn unstable now compared to whatI ride now.

cycleclinic

I have a 1992 trek 8900 with xtr m950 kit. A top end bike in its day. It can be ridden fairly quickly but then there is my kenesis ff29 a 29er which i can ride on a club road ride and keep up. Cant do that with the trek. It is also quick off road too with the same tyres.

The overal package is simlly better. Modern mtb's are simlly more capable machines well the good ones are anyway.

Also having fun does not have to be about doing jumps. So long as you have a smile on your face the you are on a good bike. The problem is for older bikes they make me smile less when ridden hard as they are far more demanding and punish the smallest of errors.