Getting TO London (park and ride?)

pbassred

Originally posted in London Cycling campaign but no one seems to view posts there ......

Why isn't anyone campaigning for bike drops (Park and cycle) around outer London?

I agree that the more people who cycle in London the better it is for everyone. Better for the environment and even better for car drivers (one less car in the que). However all of the initiatives seem to centre on cyclists who start and end their journeys within London. Living in Hertfordshire with a wheel larger than 20inches, I have 2 choices: drive or train.

The train costs £12. adding tube travel costs another £6. Quite frankly, standing in the doorway of the train for 1/2 hour with my hybrid to save 6 quid is just stupid. £18 per visit is expensive.

Driving from the North circular in inwards I wish I was on a bike, but its way cheaper unless I need central London and after 6PM even then not an issue. Especially with a passenger.

So why not have car parks in outer London to drop off bikes and then cycle in? Large towns have Park and Ride schemes for buses. Same deal without the bus. Surly I cant be the only one to think of this??

The Rookie

Suggest it to TFL and Sadiq.

Most train users leave a bike at the station, go through Marylebone at the weekend and there are hundreds, the issue of course is security (and liability).

pbassred

I can see how that would work for a full time commuter, but not for once or twice a week. You need to not love your bike to leave it in the open overnight. :-(
The funny thing is that neither the mayor's office or TFL have a "contact us" page, I'll keep ranting, but maybe I AM the only one that this affects.

alan_sherman

Find an area without parking restrictions, then park and ride. Look away from stations and I bet they are there.

kingstongraham

pbassred wrote:

I can see how that would work for a full time commuter, but not for once or twice a week. You need to not love your bike to leave it in the open overnight. :-(
The funny thing is that neither the mayor's office or TFL have a "contact us" page, I'll keep ranting, but maybe I AM the only one that this affects.

Are you looking for somewhere to bring your bike in the car, park up, take the bike out and ride it into London? That sounds like a "car park".

Anything similar specifically with bike storage is surely for people who use it regularly and don't mind leaving their bike there overnight.

redhanded

Given value of land in London, do you think that anyone would provide parking and charge less than a tube ticket to park there all day?

Personally, I think drivers should be discouraged from driving into London just for commuting.

You might be better looking for places to leave a bike at the mainline station you arrive in London. At stations like Paddington and Marylebone there seem to be loads of old beaters in the bike parking that people leave there and use just for getting to and from the train station.

pbassred

You missed my point. This is about NOT driving into London. This is about cycling from outside central London. The 10 miles from my house to the North Circular road costs £10 - 15 depending on the time, however there is nowhere to park except outside someone's house. I could also drive to a tube station and not cycle at all, pay £6 and another £5 to park.

Anyway, yesterday I parked in the road in Dollis Hill and cycled in to Kennington. That worked OK. I'm just wondering about if it became popular.

kingstongraham

You want free car parks in outer London so you can cycle in?

thistle_

We were in York last week and used the park and ride.
- It's free to park your car there if you buy the bus ticket (bus driver validates your car park token).
- I think it was free to park your car there, and cycle into the city centre (attendant validates your car park token). You can rent lockers if you want to leave your bike at the car park.

I'd not seen that sort of arrangement anywhere else before: Here the park and ride is free to park and you just pay the bus fare (or cycle), in Oxford you had to pay to park AND pay for the bus!

pbassred

Not necessarily free, but if they are (allegedly) spending millions on cycle routes, why not?
By the way, if there was ever a justification for better cycle transport to London, last weekend's cycle London event exposed the rail system as a completely unsuitable way to move a family's bikes.

Here the park and ride is free to park and you just pay the bus fare (or cycle)

Where is "Here" Thistle?

kingstongraham

I'm just failing to understand what the difference would be between this and any other car park.

pbassred

What car park? The one in the retail park where you get 2 hours before they clamp you? The short stay where they charge by the hour (spend and leave)? The full one owned by TFL by the tube (£5.30 per day last time I looked). Possibly you mean the dozen spaces at the park where they lock the gate after dusk.
The one that I'm talking about is the one that is purposely built for a 1000 cycle commuters on the end of these wonderful cycle routes they keep promising us. The want people off the over crowded tubes and trains because they can cope. They want less cars. so.... why not support bikes?

edindevon

Exeter have a park and bike scheme where you can apply for a permit to use one of the park and rides sites. Of course you could park up and ride off without a permit, but technically you'd be liable for a fine. They also have bike lockers on these sites, though there's currently a waiting list. I guess the OP is looking for schemes like this in London.

The Rookie

pbassred wrote:

The one in the retail park where you get 2 hours before they clamp you? ?

With private clamping made illegal by the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, that is unlikely to happen.

kingstongraham

pbassred wrote:

What car park? The one in the retail park where you get 2 hours before they clamp you? The short stay where they charge by the hour (spend and leave)? The full one owned by TFL by the tube (£5.30 per day last time I looked). Possibly you mean the dozen spaces at the park where they lock the gate after dusk.
The one that I'm talking about is the one that is purposely built for a 1000 cycle commuters on the end of these wonderful cycle routes they keep promising us. The want people off the over crowded tubes and trains because they can cope. They want less cars. so.... why not support bikes?

Just trying to understand how you would make it a bike facility, and not a cheap car park that anyone can use.

pbassred

Just trying to understand how you would make it a bike facility, and not a cheap car park that anyone can use.

Put it NOT walking distance from:- a retail park, train station etc. Put it in the cheaper land that's not being built on. The same places as other Park and Ride schemes actually. People CAN use them, but why would they? There's nothing there except a bus and a cycle lane. You can even charge a few quid per day.

kingstongraham

pbassred wrote:

Just trying to understand how you would make it a bike facility, and not a cheap car park that anyone can use.

Put it NOT walking distance from:- a retail park, train station etc. Put it in the cheaper land that's not being built on. The same places as other Park and Ride schemes actually. People CAN use them, but why would they? There's nothing there except a bus and a cycle lane. You can even charge a few quid per day.

It's a good idea if you can find anywhere like that within mass cycling distance of London.

thistle_

pbassred wrote:

Where is "Here" Thistle?

Chester.
Derby is the same too - free to park and pay for the bus (per car, not per person which is nice).

The Chester one is well used by people at the business park ~ 10 mins walk away because the offices don't come with (enough) parking.
The point of the park and ride is to keep cars out of the city centre, so I don't think anyone is bothered if people park and walk/run/cycle instead. This was built back in the 1980s so I doubt there's much in the way costs to recover.

I think it would be difficult to set up something similar these days with the price of land, particularly around London.

The Rookie

Canterbury has the same, 2 P&R where parking is free and you only pay for the bus.

redhanded

pbassred wrote:

You missed my point. This is about NOT driving into London. This is about cycling from outside central London. The 10 miles from my house to the North Circular road costs £10 - 15 depending on the time, however there is nowhere to park except outside someone's house. I could also drive to a tube station and not cycle at all, pay £6 and another £5 to park.

Anyway, yesterday I parked in the road in Dollis Hill and cycled in to Kennington. That worked OK. I'm just wondering about if it became popular.

I'm a bit confused. You say that it is not about driving into London but then talk about driving into London and parking (Dollis Hill is in London, zone 3 on the tube...)

I don't make any distinction between central London and outer London - I think driving anywhere in London should be discouraged.

You haven't addressed the question about why should anyone provide parking in London significantly cheaper than tube or rail fares?

People have mentioned other places with park and ride schemes but these really don't apply to London as the thing about park and ride is it just doesn't scale to the volume of people who travel in London. If you wanted to provide a parking space for everyone on a single tube train, you would need land area equivalent to about 3 football pitches. The number of commuters who can be addressed by park and ride in London is so tiny that it just can't be considered a viable commuting mode.

pbassred

Well, where YOU make your distinction is up to you. Geographically London starts just inside the M25. There is a congestion charging zone that exists to reduce the number of cars in it. There have also been suggested extensions to the zone for the same reason. Let's make a huge logical leap and assume that outside the zone is less congested than inside.

Lets make a further logical leap and assume that it is in London's interest to provide schemes to persuade traffic to stay out of London (other than not going there at all). That's why they should do it.

Scale? . You're right. No amount is enough, BUT 1000 bicycles is 1000 less cars.

Do nothing?- do something? You decide.

kingstongraham

Good luck - what's your next step?

surrey_commuter

how about manning up? North Circular to central London is only 10 miles s making your total journey 20 miles.

In a normal town/city 20 miles will put you in fields so allowing for parking at £5 a day in a field. In London to go far enough out that people can make money on a car park at £5 a day probably puts you in the sea, past Reading or north of Oxford

redhanded

pbassred wrote:

Well, where YOU make your distinction is up to you. Geographically London starts just inside the M25. There is a congestion charging zone that exists to reduce the number of cars in it. There have also been suggested extensions to the zone for the same reason. Let's make a huge logical leap and assume that outside the zone is less congested than inside.

Lets make a further logical leap and assume that it is in London's interest to provide schemes to persuade traffic to stay out of London (other than not going there at all). That's why they should do it.

Scale? . You're right. No amount is enough, BUT 1000 bicycles is 1000 less cars.

Do nothing?- do something? You decide.

When it comes to providing car parking for commuters within the M25, I'd decide to do nothing. In fact, I'd make it even more difficult by encouraging more controlled parking zones for residential streets to reduce commuter parking there as well.

What would be good is increased storage for bikes by the main train stations so people can get the train then cycle rather than get the tube or bus. If you look at the storage in stations like Paddington and Marylebone, there are hundreds of bikes there, mainly old beaters, just for train users to cycle in London.

redhanded

pbassred wrote:

Well, where YOU make your distinction is up to you. Geographically London starts just inside the M25. There is a congestion charging zone that exists to reduce the number of cars in it. There have also been suggested extensions to the zone for the same reason. Let's make a huge logical leap and assume that outside the zone is less congested than inside.

Lets make a further logical leap and assume that it is in London's interest to provide schemes to persuade traffic to stay out of London (other than not going there at all). That's why they should do it.

Scale? . You're right. No amount is enough, BUT 1000 bicycles is 1000 less cars.

Do nothing?- do something? You decide.

When it comes to providing car parking for commuters within the M25, I'd decide to do nothing. In fact, I'd make it even more difficult by encouraging more controlled parking zones for residential streets to reduce commuter parking there as well. Oh, and introduce a workplace parking levy as well.

What would be good is increased storage for bikes by the main train stations so people can get the train then cycle rather than get the tube or bus. If you look at the storage in stations like Paddington and Marylebone, there are hundreds of bikes there, mainly old beaters, just for train users to cycle in London.