Juin Tech R1 brakes.

bendertherobot

http://www.edgesportsuk.com/store/compo ... -road.html

£150 for two. You'd pay that for Spyre let alone TRP Hy Rd.

Just stuck them on and whizzed round the street. Laughably easy to install. No tugging neccessary. You undo the arm, thread the cable, tighten the bolt, pull the lever to centre, do up. Then screw in the arm to adjust. No faffing with pulling cable a bit further through or the allen key nonsense on the Spyres. Not road tested yet but feel very secure and less scary than the Hy Rd.

ugo.santalucia

what's scary about HyRD?

bendertherobot

Lever throw. These are considerably better and properly adjustable

ugo.santalucia

bendertherobot wrote:

Lever throw. These are considerably better and properly adjustable

AH, that's nice... I guess I just need someone to descend Monte Zoncolan alive and say they are fine (possibly not a magazine reviewer)... my biggest fear with these systems is how they cope with heat... I havw now two years on HyRD and I am OK with them. Problem is if they are only used for cylocross we will never know

Do they use the same pads as the TRP?

bendertherobot

Shimano R10 RWD pads. Lots of choice there.

ugo.santalucia

bendertherobot wrote:

Shimano R10 RWD pads. Lots of choice there.

Tempting... as I have a pair of Hayes CX on the single speed... they've been there for 5 years and they have never been great,he most annoying thing is the magnetic pads... the magnet in the caliper doesn't work that well and when I remove the wheel, if the rotor touches the pad, it displaces it... PITA. Might get a pair of the Juin Tech to fit on the geared bike in place of the TRP and if I am not happy with them, then put them on the single speed... I just need the stupid flat to sell so that I can free a bit of cash... :?

bendertherobot

They do lots of pretty colours as well. I got green because they're different and because I wanted to see if the anodising would hold.

ugo.santalucia

Can you not do a long ride that takes in Bwlch Y Groes descent... if you don't boil the fluid there, then I am sold

bendertherobot

It's rather a long way!

ugo.santalucia

bendertherobot wrote:

It's rather a long way!

How about Burway or Asterton Bank in Shropshire?

bendertherobot

Lol, these are fun. You can lock the back brake if you want. Really lovely feel. Short of RS685 but, actually, not as far short as you might think.

bendertherobot

https://roubaixcycling.cc/2016/08/03/ju ... lic-brakes

bendertherobot

And today my CAADX arrived, with Promax Render brakes. Needless to say the Juin Tech will be going on very very soon.

meanredspider

You can't use them on 140mm rotors - that's a major flaw. I wouldn't want anything larger than 140mm on the back of a road bike - it's too easy to lock the rear wheel.

I actually like the long throw of the HyRd.

bendertherobot

You can dial the rear down easily. To be fair they are primarily destined for cross.

meanredspider

bendertherobot wrote:

You can dial the rear down easily. To be fair they are primarily destined for cross.

How do you dial down the rear?

bendertherobot

Turn the screw, give it a longer throw like the hy Rd. Whether that is still too powerful I don't know but they have enough feel to know when they will lock. Didn't your renegade start with a 160?

On_What

I'm considering these for my X-Fire, be interested to hear how they go long term

meanredspider

bendertherobot wrote:

Turn the screw, give it a longer throw like the hy Rd. Whether that is still too powerful I don't know but they have enough feel to know when they will lock. Didn't your renegade start with a 160?

That will give you more free movement in the lever before they bite but they will bite just as hard.

Yes - my Renegade has 160 but it's a gravel bike and, like you were saying for CX, locking a rear on a loose surface is often not a bad thing (much better than a front). The Volagi has 140mm (and a BB7) - I hardly use the rear brake. The front HyRd gives me the weight transfer to totally load up the front tyre giving great braking. In that situation, the rear tyre can't sustain much braking anyway.

bendertherobot

meanredspider wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Turn the screw, give it a longer throw like the hy Rd. Whether that is still too powerful I don't know but they have enough feel to know when they will lock. Didn't your renegade start with a 160?

That will give you more free movement in the lever before they bite but they will bite just as hard.

Yes - my Renegade has 160 but it's a gravel bike and, like you were saying for CX, locking a rear on a loose surface is often not a bad thing (much better than a front). The Volagi has 140mm (and a BB7) - I hardly use the rear brake. The front HyRd gives me the weight transfer to totally load up the front tyre giving great braking. In that situation, the rear tyre can't sustain much braking anyway.

True. But I think the issue comes down to preference. As I understand it the 140 issue arose because of a dictat from Shimano but then everyone just ignored it. Even full on road bikes from Giant etc are running 160 rears, ditto something like the 6.9 Domane. The feel of the Juin Tech is good enough to know when the wheels will lock and, at the end of the day, you can lock road tyres with good brakes anyway. I can't say, of all the discs I've owned, ever noting any issues with any particular rotor size. The Ritchey was 140 at the front which was a tad annoying in terms of being able to swap that wheel for other uses. My CAADX arrived yesterday with a 140 rear so adapter has gone on to ensure that my 3 160 equipped wheels are interchangeable.

meanredspider

bendertherobot wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Turn the screw, give it a longer throw like the hy Rd. Whether that is still too powerful I don't know but they have enough feel to know when they will lock. Didn't your renegade start with a 160?

That will give you more free movement in the lever before they bite but they will bite just as hard.

Yes - my Renegade has 160 but it's a gravel bike and, like you were saying for CX, locking a rear on a loose surface is often not a bad thing (much better than a front). The Volagi has 140mm (and a BB7) - I hardly use the rear brake. The front HyRd gives me the weight transfer to totally load up the front tyre giving great braking. In that situation, the rear tyre can't sustain much braking anyway.

True. But I think the issue comes down to preference. As I understand it the 140 issue arose because of a dictat from Shimano but then everyone just ignored it. Even full on road bikes from Giant etc are running 160 rears, ditto something like the 6.9 Domane. The feel of the Juin Tech is good enough to know when the wheels will lock and, at the end of the day, you can lock road tyres with good brakes anyway. I can't say, of all the discs I've owned, ever noting any issues with any particular rotor size. The Ritchey was 140 at the front which was a tad annoying in terms of being able to swap that wheel for other uses. My CAADX arrived yesterday with a 140 rear so adapter has gone on to ensure that my 3 160 equipped wheels are interchangeable.

I just find I'm locking the rear unintentionally - part of that will be that I hardly use the rear so my left hand isn't as well tuned to the braking - but most of it is that the rear tyre can sustain far less braking.
All vehicles use much smaller rear brakes (especially motorbikes) for the same reason that front brakes do most of the work. Bicycles are extreme because it's a very stiff system so the weight transfer is high and instantaneous.
I can see why it works for you and for CX - I just think it's a miss for road use.

On another point - part of the reason that the HyRd has the long throw is that the piston needs to retract enough to refill from the reservoir. That bakes in some lost motion. How does the Juin overcome this and still ensure brake wear is automatically compensated?

bendertherobot

On the main point, I don't really overthink it. It just seems to work for me. I've been reading up on it and there doesn't seem to be a consensus.

On the last point, I will have to see. I have to say I wasn't necessarily convinced that the Trp Hy Rd auto adjust worked all that well but it is something to consider.

meanredspider

No - but it's just designing it right. You could make a bike with the same diameter tube for all the structural elements and have just one geometry and one tyre size and one type of gearing. It would work and you wouldn't overthink it. As for consensus - as I said, there is one for every other vehicle.

The HyRd does work and works in exactly the same way as all of the other self-adjusting brake systems. I'd imagine that the Juin does too I'm just not sure how the ensure that people don't adjust it to the point that it can't self adjust (in the same way that people do with the HyRd if they don't use the stop pin)

comsense

meanredspider wrote:

(in the same way that people do with the HyRd if they don't use the stop pin)

Hi, you've lost me with this.
What stop pin? are you talking about the lock out? I'm not being smart here, possibly the opposite . I have Hy/RDs and want to be sure I'm not missing something important.

bendertherobot : For Braking performance only, not minding lever throw etc, are the Juin Techs really that much better?

bendertherobot

comsense wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

(in the same way that people do with the HyRd if they don't use the stop pin)

Hi, you've lost me with this.
What stop pin? are you talking about the lock out? I'm not being smart here, possibly the opposite . I have Hy/RDs and want to be sure I'm not missing something important.

bendertherobot : For Braking performance only, not minding lever throw etc, are the Juin Techs really that much better?

It's hard to be definitive on that score. I'd certainly not say much better, just that getting that performance is easier but, to be fair to MRS, lever throw is a personal thing. So if you can get good lever throw and the same performance then you feel that they are better.

I still think that they are better because of that. And that they might be a little better in the performance and feel aspect. But I think the main thing is that they are much better value overall IF you haven't already invested. If you like Hy Rd stick with them, if you don't like lever throw consider an "upgrade."

meanredspider

comsense wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

(in the same way that people do with the HyRd if they don't use the stop pin)

Hi, you've lost me with this.
What stop pin? are you talking about the lock out? I'm not being smart here, possibly the opposite . I have Hy/RDs and want to be sure I'm not missing something important.

bendertherobot : For Braking performance only, not minding lever throw etc, are the Juin Techs really that much better?

There's the pin that you use to set the cable tension that holds the lever arm on the HyRd in place to ensure that it has enough free travel to self-adjust. That's what I'm referring to.

bendertherobot

The lock one? So the one you wind in, lock the arm, pull the cable, then tighten the cable, and release the lock?

comsense

meanredspider wrote:

There's the pin that you use to set the cable tension that holds the lever arm on the HyRd in place to ensure that it has enough free travel to self-adjust. That's what I'm referring to.

Got you now, thanks.

meanredspider

bendertherobot wrote:

The lock one? So the one you wind in, lock the arm, pull the cable, then tighten the cable, and release the lock?

Yup - that one.

ugo.santalucia

They seem to have metal pistons. The selling point of the HyRD for me is the composite piston that insulates the hydraulic from the heat of the pads. When I cooked the rotor/pads last year, the hydraulic was absolutely fine. Bear in mind a red glowing rotor means over 400 degrees C. Admittedly, I was going too fast, with strong tail wind and I had to break from 80 Kmh, so that was a mistake... but mistakes happen.

The other day I did an anticlockwise loop from Keswick, with Newlands Hause and Honister, both have 25% descents... coming down Newlands the rear wheel was locked and skidding on the slippery tarmac... quite a hairy moment... but no problem at all with heat management on those descents