Would A Clean Froome Beat A Doped Armstrong?

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  • LanterneRouge010
    LanterneRouge010 Posts: 57
    A better question is whether current Chris Froome could beat Lance in his hey day. Remember that Froome has annually held 6.8w/kg plus for 30 minutes to win the TDF. I'll just leave this here...https://youtu.be/t18YYy9ITCU
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    LanterneRouge010 wrote:
    A better question is whether current Chris Froome could beat Lance in his hey day. Remember that Froome has annually held 6.8w/kg plus for 30 minutes to win the TDF. I'll just leave this here...https://youtu.be/t18YYy9ITCU
    I like the way your open tabs hint at your preoccupation...
  • joe2008
    joe2008 Posts: 1,531
    bompington wrote:
    LanterneRouge010 wrote:
    A better question is whether current Chris Froome could beat Lance in his hey day. Remember that Froome has annually held 6.8w/kg plus for 30 minutes to win the TDF. I'll just leave this here...https://youtu.be/t18YYy9ITCU
    I like the way your open tabs hint at your preoccupation...

    If you were to watch the video you'll see why they're there...
  • Alex99
    Alex99 Posts: 1,407
    LanterneRouge010 wrote:
    A better question is whether current Chris Froome could beat Lance in his hey day. Remember that Froome has annually held 6.8w/kg plus for 30 minutes to win the TDF. I'll just leave this here...https://youtu.be/t18YYy9ITCU

    When does Froome do 6.8 W/kg for 30 minutes? Never seen that anywhere. Doesn't he do about 420 W for 20-30 minutes, which is 6.2 W/kg assuming weight of 68 kg.
  • negativelycra
    negativelycra Posts: 225
    One way to settle this forever. Get fuzzy bears or whatever they're called to release Froome's wada file...
    [urlhttp://veloviewer.com/SigImage.php?a=f3252&r=3&c=5&u=I&g=s&f=abcdefghij&z=a.png]Veloviewer[/url]
  • LanterneRouge010
    LanterneRouge010 Posts: 57
    Alex99 wrote:
    LanterneRouge010 wrote:
    A better question is whether current Chris Froome could beat Lance in his hey day. Remember that Froome has annually held 6.8w/kg plus for 30 minutes to win the TDF. I'll just leave this here...https://youtu.be/t18YYy9ITCU

    When does Froome do 6.8 W/kg for 30 minutes? Never seen that anywhere. Doesn't he do about 420 W for 20-30 minutes, which is 6.2 W/kg assuming weight of 68 kg.

    You won't finish in top 5 of GC with 6.2 w/kg. Van garderen and Yates can do 6.5, Quintana 6.7+. And yet Froome has flogged them up Ventoux. Have a look at the video (not mine) of Froome up Ventoux I think it is, with the leaked power data. Big big numbers

    I would suggest it's unlikely that at 4% body fat he is racing at 68kg, more like 63. Otherwise he's just too heavy compared to 55kg Quintana
  • Bobbinogs
    Bobbinogs Posts: 4,841
    LanterneRouge010 wrote:
    ...

    You won't finish in top 5 of GC with 6.2 w/kg. Van garderen and Yates can do 6.5, Quintana 6.7+. And yet Froome has flogged them up Ventoux. Have a look at the video (not mine) of Froome up Ventoux I think it is, with the leaked power data. Big big numbers
    ...

    Not sure that the "leaked power data" was actually that (could be wrong though). I seem to recall that the initial hoohah followed the release of a complete guesstimate analysis of power based on a few simple factors (albeit wind, rolling resistance, food/water weight, etc., would be noticeable by their absence in the calculation) and commissioned by some suspicious french journos desperate to prove that Froome was cheating in spite of no evidence to that. Shame that they don't hold some of their past heroes up to the same level of scrutiny/accountability.
  • lostboysaint
    lostboysaint Posts: 4,250
    10 posts, all anti Sky/Froome and you lot are biting.
    Trail fun - Transition Bandit
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  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    Froome said in his own book that he did over 460W for 30 mins to beat Armstrongs time up Madone, but Richie Porte went even quicker. THAT SAID, he uses those stupid chainrings that inflate power. Also not a hope in hell is chris froome below 65kg, 66/67 at his best I should think.

    On the flipside, if we look at Wiggins, who has quoted his watts numerous times, they stack up with Froomes being very much higher than 420 or whatever said above given Froome looked better than him in 2012.


    “Without boring you too much with the technicalities I averaged 456 watts for 55 minutes at the Worlds last year against Tony and still finished 1min 20sec behind." - Wiggins

    There is a GCN interview where Dan Lloyd asks Wiggins about watts, and he said that he did 470W for his 2014 world championship win, and I've just checked back, was on normal chainrings, BUT using Stages, so possibly wrong, but woul stack up with him winning that.


    The dope helps you do that day after day, and that is likely the difference between that era and now, Froome looked done at the end of the vuelta, his attacks vs what he has done in the past were not in the same league, fatigue didn't come into it in the EPO days
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • Alex99
    Alex99 Posts: 1,407
    LanterneRouge010 wrote:
    Alex99 wrote:
    LanterneRouge010 wrote:
    A better question is whether current Chris Froome could beat Lance in his hey day. Remember that Froome has annually held 6.8w/kg plus for 30 minutes to win the TDF. I'll just leave this here...https://youtu.be/t18YYy9ITCU

    When does Froome do 6.8 W/kg for 30 minutes? Never seen that anywhere. Doesn't he do about 420 W for 20-30 minutes, which is 6.2 W/kg assuming weight of 68 kg.

    You won't finish in top 5 of GC with 6.2 w/kg. Van garderen and Yates can do 6.5, Quintana 6.7+. And yet Froome has flogged them up Ventoux. Have a look at the video (not mine) of Froome up Ventoux I think it is, with the leaked power data. Big big numbers

    I would suggest it's unlikely that at 4% body fat he is racing at 68kg, more like 63. Otherwise he's just too heavy compared to 55kg Quintana

    Where are you getting these figures from?
  • LanterneRouge010
    LanterneRouge010 Posts: 57
    okgo wrote:

    The dope helps you do that day after day, and that is likely the difference between that era and now, Froome looked done at the end of the vuelta, his attacks vs what he has done in the past were not in the same league, fatigue didn't come into it in the EPO days

    Froome has just finished the most dominant 3-4 month extended peak in decades, accomplishing something Armstrong never nearly did. His 2016 season unquestionably puts him amongst the greatest cyclists of all time. Destroyed the tdf, olympic bronze in TT then 2nd in a very hard Vuelta that suited Quintana. At what point did he show fatigue? If the person who came 4th in the vuelta is not considered clean then how does Froome put 5 mins into him on GC?

    Just asking.
  • lostboysaint
    lostboysaint Posts: 4,250
    Make that 11.
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  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,345
    LanterneRouge010 wrote:
    okgo wrote:
    If the person who came 4th in the vuelta is not considered clean then how does Froome put 5 mins into him on GC?

    Just asking.
    The person who came 4th post steak issues is no longer the force he was pre steak.
    And crashed a few times. Just saying.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    LanterneRouge010 wrote:
    okgo wrote:

    The dope helps you do that day after day, and that is likely the difference between that era and now, Froome looked done at the end of the vuelta, his attacks vs what he has done in the past were not in the same league, fatigue didn't come into it in the EPO days

    Froome has just finished the most dominant 3-4 month extended peak in decades, accomplishing something Armstrong never nearly did. His 2016 season unquestionably puts him amongst the greatest cyclists of all time. Destroyed the tdf, olympic bronze in TT then 2nd in a very hard Vuelta that suited Quintana. At what point did he show fatigue? If the person who came 4th in the vuelta is not considered clean then how does Froome put 5 mins into him on GC?

    Just asking.

    Smashing the TDF these days is also a lot to do with the team, and Sky with the first team in peak condition are incredibly strong. Olympics was soon after so should still have been in ok shape for a 1 hour race that suited him. Got spanked by an 80kg rider though who has been connected with plenty of drugs stories...

    Contador was 4th was he? Look at Contador in 2009, vs now, its obvious whatever he was on, he isn't now. Eqaully, look at Froome attacks in TDF, vicious, at no point did he have that same edge in this vuelta, at best his attacks were watered down versions of what we saw on Ventoux for example. NQ followed him every time on that final mountain without seemingly breathing, reminded me of Horner when he won the Vuelta. Froome never really made time on NQ in the hard moutains, and really struggled at points to keep in touch. He smashed him and everyone else in the TT, which is what you might expect given he is a great TT'er and the vuelta didn't seemingly have any stellar testers riding vs the tour.

    NQ also rode the tour, which he was meant to be in peak shape for, but was pants, he still rode it though, and still should have been tired but looked untouchable in this vuelta.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • LanterneRouge010
    LanterneRouge010 Posts: 57
    PBlakeney wrote:
    LanterneRouge010 wrote:
    okgo wrote:
    If the person who came 4th in the vuelta is not considered clean then how does Froome put 5 mins into him on GC?

    Just asking.
    The person who came 4th post steak issues is no longer the force he was pre steak.
    And crashed a few times. Just saying.

    He's won 3 grand tours since then?
  • dinyull
    dinyull Posts: 2,979
    Where are the muppet pics when you need them?
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,345
    LanterneRouge010 wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    LanterneRouge010 wrote:
    okgo wrote:
    If the person who came 4th in the vuelta is not considered clean then how does Froome put 5 mins into him on GC?

    Just asking.
    The person who came 4th post steak issues is no longer the force he was pre steak.
    And crashed a few times. Just saying.

    He's won 3 grand tours since then?
    Did he crash in them too?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    if they were the same age, same diet and clean ( so both at their peak at 31 years old) froome would weigh less and would have a better w/kg (between 63 and 68kg versus around 73-75 kg). if Lance was juiced and on the vampire diet, then I'd expect him to go better, and sustain attacks etc better. either way its not realistic to expect a turbo from the late 90's to match a normally aspirated person from now.

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