Enve 3.4 / Bora Ultra 35 or Zipp 303fc

Marvinman

I have narrowed down my decision to pick up a set of carbon clinchers to the above three wheelsets. It would be very helpful if anyone could share any real life views of direct experience in one/potentially all of the above.

I don't race. I generally ride a mix of solo / mixed group rides from 40miles to 100m+ on varying terrain in and around the Brecon beacons, but also close to the coast. FWIW av.speed is generally 18-19mph over a 60 mile course at 1,500m -1,800m of climbing. I currently ride DA c24's.

At 63kg I suffer more on the flat when bigger boys push the pace. My aim (foolish or otherwise) is a not heavy nor too deep wheelset but to gain some aero advantage. Crosswinds are a consideration given my weight, as is braking in the wet.

If money was not object the Enve would be the choice but at an extra £1k over the others that is a serious jump in budget and I am not sure it is worth it.

Any real life experience would be appreciated.

meesterbond

I've got some 303s FC on my main bike and a pair of the old Bora ones (50mm tubs though) and both have been excellent. That said, I prefer the wider profile of the 303s, but the braking on the Boras seems marginally better (the Red Campag blocks are fantastic), and they are a fair bit lighter.

Hardly conclusive I know, but I would question why you'd look at the Bora Ultras when the Bora Ones are significantly cheaper with very little difference in performance... a little bit more carbon and ceramic bearings for £700??

markyone

I have had many wheelsets including enve which imo are way overpriced and braking awful.
For me it has to be the bora ultra,i have the ultra 50 and braking is excellent bora all day long superb wheelset.

Bobbinogs

I would question whether a 35mm rim would really offer that much VFM for the buck??

I would be interested to hear from folks who think that a 35 would offer a tangible rolling advantage around the 20mph rates (as in, genuinely interested because I am in a similar position to the OP and am a tad cautious about 50mm given my weight and figure 35mm may not help my performance on rolling/draggy parcours).

Marvinman

Thanks all thus far. To follow up:

- Agreed on the Bora One over Bora Ultra. There does not seem to be much gain for the money;

- Thanks for comments on Enve. I had pretty much ruled them out on price grounds but any other views welcome;

- The 35mm v 50mm is one of the reasons why I threw in the Zipp 303's. They seem to sit in the middle of a 35mm potentially not offering much and a 50mm being a bridge too far, albeit at a weight penalty. I am cautious about crosswinds as I do ride in exposed areas at times hence the reluctance to jump up to 50mm.

Like Bobbinogs it would be nice to hear views on the benefit of 35mm against 50mm. At this stage I am leaning strongly towards the Boras.

Thanks

Bobbinogs

yepp, hope you don't see it as thread jacking! FWIW, I was also looking at the Cosines (from Wiggle) as their 45mm option may be a good option given the £550 price tag.

philbar72

to be fair a lot of our clubs racers and one of a similar club use the generic Chinese carbon tubulars and get decent results. 50mm tubs weighing 1200Grams and are reasonably aero and don't brake too bad for around £600...?
zipps for me have appaling hubs. terrible. enve's look bling and go well enough, but cost far too much.

skmark

Have you thought about Hunt Wheels?

http://www.huntbikewheels.com/collectio ... 26wide-899

I've recently been thinking along similar lines for a new bike due in Sept and ended up ordering the above. I've no experience myself but a lot of internet time and review reading along with just not being able to justify to myself the Enve's I ended up here.......cant wait to get mine.

stueys

I would go slightly deeper, I run enve 4.5's which I think are excellent, they make a tangible difference to speed and holding that speed. I think that depth (40/50mm) is the sweet spot in terms of aero, weight, stability. The other benefit is they are really stiff, the power transfer is excellent. Re enve you pay a premium which is hefty but the rims are very well designed, whether that premium is worth it or not...

Braking wise it's the usual carbon rim story, dry weather performance is fine, wet weather you need to modify your riding slightly. Though the new brake rim is supposed to be one of the best out there now, I've not tried it so can't comment.

Otherwise wheelsmith do some aero options that look interesting. The issues zip have had with hubs would put me off though I know people who ride with no issues. Ultras always get good reviews as well.

guevarca

Have been in the same situation and tried each of your options and ended up buying Bora One clinchers - very happy with them so far, braking seemed better than the others too and very stiff. Zipps are always a benchmark choice and they do hold their value ok if you then want to sell them on however am sure it won't be long till another of their hub recalls and issues of some kind. My frame is quite slender tubed so the 35s look 'just right', whereas some more areo slab-sided frames suit deeper rims a bit better visually which as we know is the most important factor ;-)

bernithebiker

Check out the Dt Swiss RC38 Splines.

Very under rated wheelset and excellent value for money. The hubs alone are excellent.

Marvinman

Well my LBS has offered me a set of Enve 3.4 clinchers for the weekend to test, which I pick up tonight. Will be interesting to see the comparison as I am planning regular routes including climbs and flat sections where I can compare reasonably well to my DA c24's.

I'll be looking out mostly for crosswind issues plus a feeling in braking down some of the larger climbs in Brecon. Looks like it could be damp on the weekend so I should get a decent range of conditions to give them a good test.

Will report back.

sebbyp

The Bora One's are fairly awesome, do have the tubular version though as clinchers bit heavier. just did a 1:01 25mile TT on the road bike on them, nice and aero, crosswinds dont seem an issue (73kg) ,decent braking, nice noise, making a big difference over the rs81 c24's i has been using.. same as the DA's your running with cheaper hubs.
People keep saying they are too nice to use as an everyday wheel, but I'm struggling to bother putting the rs81's back on every week as the Bora's are so nice. Just need a longer lasting rear tubular now...

Marvinman

Took out the Enve 3.4 clinchers on Sat for a 70 mile 5,200ft hilly ride and they performed very well.

Anecdotal evidence only but they did feel as if effort was reduced at 20mph plus albeit on that kind of route the amount of time on the flat at that speed was fairly limited. Braking was excellent (dry weather) and easily equivalent to my alloy wheels. Climbing did not feel any different which at around 1,320g is to be expected. It was windy but they felt no different to my DA c24's even at 500m elevation plus, so that was good news.

However for the pricetag being double that of Campagnolo Boras even though I have not tested the boras I am struggling to justify it in my own mind. They did not set the world alight such that I thought I would never want to return them, which is probably a good enough assessment for me.

Bobbinogs

Interesting, sounds like they were not that much different to your current wheels, which in themselves are very very similar to the RS81 c24s which can be bought for less then £400 and come with Ultegra rather than DA hubs.

Marvinman

A reasonable assessment of the one ride I did with the Enve taking into account the terrain.

Having said that the week before I rode with a friend of similar ability with my DAc24's and he had his Zipp 404's. That ride was flat and the difference was noticeable with him rolling along across the whole ride far easier than me. Again not scientific but was sufficient for me to ask some serious questions. Based on my own ride on deeper wheels I am reasonably confident that on a flatter ride there would have been a more consistent benefit. Given the fact there was no perceptible difference on the climbs between my c24's and the Enve it would be interesting in a longer ride/sportive with long valley/flat sections.

To put it into perspective last time I did the Dragon Ride I was approx. 5 mins behind two guys who got round the fastest (who were both shallow rims). At an average 18mph+ for 143 miles it is conceivable that if there is indeed a time saving I could have limited a portion of that time. Interestingly I lost a fair portion of time to them in the last 40 miles which was largely a rolling flat/downhill run to the finish (before anyone says I know it wasn't due to my descending). Lots of variables granted and no firm conclusions can be drawn, but does make you think (or look for excuses!).

I have to say the Enve did sound and look fantastic (I am starting to think about them again now :twisted: )

Bobbinogs

Losing 5 minutes over 143 miles really isn't that bad! It could be that they worked together or had drafting help at the right time in the ride that helped them save valuable energy that they then could use in the last part...or it could even be that they were due to catch a train and had to put the effort in!!

I am beginning to think that the answer is that certain wheels will help in certain situations but I don't have the spare cash (or the inclination) to pick the right wheelset for the day's parcours...and then also have to factor in the weather (rain, wind, showers, etc.).

The conclusion in my "Rim depth" thread over in RG appears to be a big "it depends, but they look and sound great", so not that much different here then :-)

sloppyschleckonds

Get the ENVE's then you'll never be bugged by the 'what if' question

What frame are the wheels going on?

Marvinman

I know - tough decision. They are going on a Storck Aernario Pro and match up really well. Bank manager won't be happy tho ...

rolf_f

Marvinman wrote:

I know - tough decision. They are going on a Storck Aernario Pro and match up really well. Bank manager won't be happy tho ...

Bank manager won't care - this is 2016. If you can't keep up the payments he'll have your house!